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message 1: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments A question for the more “established” Feminist for want of a better word how best do you think the HeforShe recruits could be used. We are mostly new from Emma’s initiative some of us have little real information on Feminism other than as a basic concept outlined in Emma’s Davos and UN speeches.


message 2: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments I asked the question the way I did quite cynically and got the responses I thought I would so now to ask and answer the right question.

What can we do we who have signed up for HeforShe to achieve it's goal of Gender Equality for women everywhere.

When Emma made her speeches at Davos and UN her initiative was brilliant; involve men in the mission to achieve equality for women.

This recruited many many men in all walks of life with her message you can still be a man and help woman and men to achieve a balance where you have the same chances in life no matter what your gender.

She has done her bit and will continue to do so. Now it is our turn. Lets start with some harsh truths;

1) you are a sexist, all men are it's a fact. You may well have many
counters and objections it makes no difference is it a fact. You
can change but it is where all men start.

2) The world is a patriarchy and it is our (men) fault. Again this
can be changed.

Now you may not agree but I challenge you to accept these as facts as the best way to effect change we want.

So how do we alter these seemly huge issues: start small and local change your attitudes and behavior to influence others by example.

1) Ask you have women in your life ask them what you can do to
make things more equal. You may have to push women are as
conditioned as men in being defensive in these areas. But they
will tell you.
2) declare yourself, want to know what to do with you Heforshe
T-shirt, ware it out and about and if asked explain what it
is and why you are a feminist. if you are unsure if you are
Feminist say you are anyway. if you are reading these threads
you are more than committed enough.
3) make a stand in work and leisure, be brave if you find a joke or
comment sexist say so. Even if there are women who say they
don't mind fine it's your commitment and not theirs stand
your ground.
4) pay attention where do you see inequality can you do
anything about it (the answer is always yes). If you have
children tell them about equality and what it means.

You may disagree with my approach that is fine but if you do but if so have one of your own and stick to that. Gender Equality is everyone responsibility, but not everyone signed up for it we did and chose to be duty bound to make it happen.

I phrased the original question what can we do for other feminist. The answer of course is it's up to us do for ourselves we are all equal after all.


message 3: by Grégoire (new)

Grégoire  Gras (Grgoir3) | 9 comments Ross wrote: "I asked the question the way I did quite cynically and got the responses I thought I would so now to ask and answer the right question.

What can we do we who have signed up for HeforShe to achiev..."


I think you are right, I mean Emma did her part of the job and still do it but if we want to have a real progress we have to do something ourselves and those 4 points that you shared, they are the things that we need to do every day, all the time.

My comment is maybe not very pertinent but you know I'm from France, and I think to have progress we need to spread/share our differents thoughts/observations in the world and like not only share it in our contries.
(This is maybe not the anwser that you were looking for sorry.)

Forgive me for my spelling and inconsistencies.


message 4: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Gregoire, wrote: "I think you are right I mean Emma.."

You are making you own way Gregoire which is exactly the right answer. Sharing what it means to us as individuals to be HeforShe and what we can contribute.


message 5: by Bunny (new)

Bunny I really liked a lot of the things you said in your second post Ross.


message 6: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 265 comments in my own life, my main intent with my 2 daughters was to let them know that neither their gender nor age matters when it comes to doing what they want, being who they are. i wanted them to be independent women with independent minds. i sent them to spanish immersion schools for the first 14 years of their lives, and they both attended a high school for the arts. through their educational process, they learned tolerance of race, gender, and personal preference in clothing, style, creativity. and everything else that may have been questioned as being 'out of the norm'.

both grown, they live the lives they choose with respect for the lives of others. by being their role model for an adult woman who continued to evolve no matter her age, i believe it was the best thing i could do for the world in the nature of spreading the ideals of feminism. i think that raising children as best we can in our ideals helps the world become a bit more of an equal place, no matter our background and the beliefs we were taught. small steps, perhaps, but steps nonetheless.


message 7: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Bunny Wrote: "I really liked a lot of the things you said in your second post Ross"

Thank you Bunny that is good to hear feel like I am making progress.

Sandra Wrote: "in my own life, my main intent with my 2 daughters"

Gratifying to read what can and is being done to improve things positive action in our own lives is key. And in my opinion putting confident capable young women in the world is no small thing Sandra it is the main thing.


message 8: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 265 comments Ross wrote: "Bunny Wrote: "I really liked a lot of the things you said in your second post Ross"

Thank you Bunny that is good to hear feel like I am making progress.

Sandra Wrote: "in my own life, my main int..."


thanks, ross. and, i'm happy to say that my younger daughter has become a genre fiction author (mostly sci-fi) whose female protagonists are strong, independent, and intelligent. so, she's spreading the word (literally) to many more people. and so it keeps spreading . . .


message 9: by Ana, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Ana PF | 746 comments Mod
Awareness, curiosity and braveness, I believe, are the names of the game here. Both to possess them and to instil (one l? Two? Ouch!) them in others. Most of us can only act within a seemingly small circle and that lead us to internalise the feeling that there isn't anything we can really to change things, but that is wrong. Changes may be forcedly small but still meaningful - to our community, to our children, friends, partners and relatives, to make a small difference in views that may be held not because they really believe in them, but because they've never actually given much critical thought to them. If we, who still come with a sad legacy in terms of male supremacy, have been able to slowly get rid of some of our deeply ingrained prejudice and harmful myths, can you imagine how free a child born to / raised to a feminist-friendly household can get to be?
Awareness - to start from the HeforShe initiative and then slowly, gradually, with no rush but also without return, move on to discover other women and gender related issues, so that we can, at best, understand, and at the very least accept and respect others' voices and stories.
Curiosity - to think critically, to not be afraid of finding out more. Go read that article on women's talks on sexuality within Native tribes in Latin America, even though it sounds foreign to you and you actually didn't even know that such tribe existed. Please do find out more about why hair styling, care and maintenance is such a huge issue for WOC. Who would have thought that sex workers had a voice, and a strong one for that matter? Go out of your way to listen to them. All those are things that I've made in the last year or so. At the beginning I thought, wow what is all this stuff, why do people make an issue out of everything, was that not obvious? Then, I evolved to, oh God so this is out there and I had no idea, also will I be able to keep up with all this thought process? I'm still sort of there, but at least now I am curious about it. That's a start. :)
Braveness - Not as in, OMG be-kind-be-brave with a darn mug, a throw pillow or a tee. Be brave as in, go out there and say out loud that you are a feminist. It's not that we need to go around shoving feminism down people's throats, but don't keep it in the, um, closet. When you get the typical joke, don't just laugh it off. Talk about it, at least as long as they'll agree to pay you a little attention.

I think those are the very basics, maybe still not affordable for all of us but indeed for many. From there on, you can choose to be even more actively involved, perhaps to change the target of your charity, if you're into those. Possibilities are endless! :) But I think we can all be activists in our small circle, even if we're of the invisible, humble variety. ;)


message 10: by Ana, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Ana PF | 746 comments Mod
*leads us to internalise...tablets! Great but a major pain in the ass when you wanna edit your typos, haha.


message 11: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Ana wrote: "Awareness, curiosity and braveness"

Thanks Ana interesting and helpful. I suspect I shall never be invisible or totally free from Hubris but like the idea of all of us contributing in the way we can HeforShe'er take note.

"sad legacy in terms of male supremacy" nice turn of phrase and all too sadly true still we shall effect change and restore the balance just a matter of time and effort!


message 12: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 265 comments that's the spirit, ross! a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, or something like that. and, as the 12-steppers say, little by little, step by step. even these discussions continue to keep our awareness heightened, which makes it easier to recognize and correct inequalities in both speech and actions.


message 13: by Elizabeth (last edited Jun 21, 2016 05:55PM) (new)

Elizabeth | 82 comments 1) you are a sexist, all men are it's a fact. You may well have many
counters and objections it makes no difference is it a fact. You
can change but it is where all men start.

2) The world is a patriarchy and it is our (men) fault. Again this
can be changed.


What in the dickens?
Apparently I am either the first person to discern that Ross is doing a blatant parody of Newbie Radical Tumblr Feminist stereotypes, or the rest of you have all collectively decided to engage him by pretending to take him %100 sincerely? Where is this going? It can only end in tears. If you pretend to agree with him he will probably take you as unironic. Just forget it, if he doesn't want to have a real discussion it's not worth it


message 14: by Bunny (last edited Jun 21, 2016 08:20PM) (new)

Bunny I've been interacting with Ross for awhile, I don't think he is trolling. Entirely possible I'm wrong, but if so - so what? No skin off my nose.


message 15: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Elizabeth wrote "What in the dickens"

I am not often offended but I am by this I am entirely sincere both here are other social media and in my life I am actively commented to my feminism. I have told my family work place and anyone who will listen.

I have been open about my start down this path and use my own name and details. I have been interacting as Bunny has said with her and others here for a while and never deviated from my commitment, I as sure they would have seen through a parody as you put it,

If a posting looks like trolling Elisabeth it is yours; I look like a new feminist because as I am one. Feel free to have a look at my Twitter and Facebook. I have twice crossed MRA's and spent hours working through them because I would not let there spurious assertions about women struggle go unanswered.

When Taking the the radical feminists they have made it clear I am not seen as one them. That being said I am direct and make sure never to be seen as an apologist for my gender.

This may have come across as a polemic but I am irritated trust me my stand as not been easy or without cost and to be casually dismissed on the basis of what my lack of experience, my gender, really,

Now I will look past your starting with an insult. what would you like to talk about.


message 16: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments .. In my excitement I forgot we have a group who meet up to discuss the meaning of "our shelf" I have met personally two Goodreads member in London to which I wore my HeforShe T-shirt.
during an Enagland football match day!

I shall ask them to make comment if required,


message 17: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Ross Wrote: "3) make a stand in work and leisure"

Attended "50 Most influential women in UK IT" this an event to see how companies are successfully delivering diversity in IT.
This is a free event (with drinks and snacks provided) the majority of attendees are women but men are welcome.

I have been looking for a way to increase number of women we have in IT at my company. Invited my college and fellow feminist Jennifer Dennito with me turned out she was looking for such events about women in computing to raise it with our management.

It was a very interesting day and we will be taking all the valuable information we learned to our senior management.

I recommend this event for men wishing to become more involved in helping bring my women to our (IT) industry. Also worth attending even if you are not in IT has the women speakers are leaders in there industry and committed to getting gender balance.

Another aspect is the www.modernmuse.org This is a site where women scientist and Technologist write a short bio of how they got into there respective fields. It is used to show girls in primary school that women can be scientists.

It was created as result of work in primary schools where it was found girls did not have any role models in Tech and most could not even name a female scientist. They new males such as Einstein but no women.

So if you are in tech field please go to the site it takes about 15 minutes.


message 18: by Alyson (new)

Alyson Stone (alysonserenastone) | 149 comments Is there a website for HeforShe or just the Facebook page? I didn't get much about this from Facebook.


message 19: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Yes it's www.heforshe.org Serena. I was the one that attended the event may not have much more on the site go to www.computerweekly.com for the event details and
Twiter #CWwit50


message 20: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 226 comments If all the HeforShe signatories, what percentage if them are strongly dedicated to the cause vs just there for Emma?


message 21: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 226 comments Was always on about HeforShe, a few weeks after I first joined up, having discussion forums of some kind over the year and months; became rather habitual with me. Where people could share ideas and organize. If one country had issues, another could help out.

Now I wonder if they were available, would BREXIT have occurred?


message 22: by Ana, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Ana PF | 746 comments Mod
Brexit happened based on a whole different set of circumstances. It is strongly linked to a country's current situation, as much in and of itself as within an economic union. I do not believe it has any major link to feminism, although its consequences probably will have some.

Also, I think that constantly asking ourselves just how much of HeForShe, OSS or whatever thing Emma Watson does is welcomed because of its value or because of Watson's celebrity status is...self-harming, I don't know, self-deprecating for us, and coming from the outside, rather ill-intentioned. It's as if we were constantly questioning these initiatives in order to ultimately deny them. Besides, who cares if it's because of her. People are still trying to actually think about women's rights and gender equality. Good for us all.


message 23: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Ana Wrote: "People are still trying to actually think about women's rights and gender equality. Good for us all."

I think this is key peoples motivations are unimportant it is the message then send and the actions they take that matter. Emma used her fame deliberately to inspire anyway she could I doubt she knew what the effect would be but her courage in creating HeforShe has made a difference across the world.

The importance keep Gender Equality in the public consciousness even more significant now given the changing times we live in as show by Brixt. For we men and women who support HeforShe it is vital we stick together and keep doing what we are doing; for the world, yourself or just because you like Emma, it's the result that counts.


message 24: by Christine (new)

Christine Periña | 67 comments Ross wrote: "For we men and women who support HeforShe it is vital we stick together and keep doing what we are doing; for the world, yourself or just because you like Emma, it's the result that counts."

I agree with this! Because what ever your reason is, whether you are just here because you like Emma or whatsoever, I also believe that in the end what really matters is the impact we can make to the world. We are destined to be here!


message 25: by Ana, Our Shared Shelf Moderator (new)

Ana PF | 746 comments Mod
Besides, we should remember that for quite a lot of people, initiatives such as this one, or the (often insufficiently delivered) news on feminist celebs and so on are most likely the only way they will come in touch with feminism, gender equality, etc. Not all people have, nor can afford to acquire, an academic background. Even if they do, their fields of study are overwhelmingly far from gender studies. I for one know that in the last months it's been a real learning curve in order to truly understand Feminism 101 (still very much there!)...and I'm privileged enough to have enjoyed access to higher, multilingual education. So really, not saying that any of us here behaved in such a way, but generally speaking, dismissing people's way of introduction to this, uhhh, 'knowledge', could even come across as smug and hindering our cause. :)


message 26: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 226 comments Should HeforShe focus on that learning aspect?

Make educational videos; written material that goes to the core and purpose of Feminism.


message 27: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Emma Wrote: "creating a chapter of HeForShe on college campuses"

I think is an excellent Idea. The next stage for HeforShe.


message 28: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 226 comments What about people that don't or can't attend University?


message 29: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Adam Wrote: "What about people that don't or can't attend University?"

Emma Wrote: "creating a chapter of HeForShe on college campuses"

Well we could like with most subjects have preparatory classes in high school maybe Gender Equality should be part of early education as well stop in before it starts.

All these initiatives can be explored HeforShe gives us a useful umbrella term for such Ideas.


message 30: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 226 comments Ross wrote: "Adam Wrote: "What about people that don't or can't attend University?"

Emma Wrote: "creating a chapter of HeForShe on college campuses"

Well we could like with most subjects have preparatory clas..."


I'll put it this way:

Say we, as a species/community, have at the liberal end, 20 years to get Anthropogenic Climate Change reversed or at least mitigated.

In order to do so we would need all of us helping to achieve that.

In order for that to happen, we would need to act very quickly; say 3/5 years at the most.

How to create that kind of movement?

This is not entirely "directed" at you.


message 31: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Adam wrote: "Say we, as a species/community, have at the liberal end"

I don't necessary believe that Adam. I am not asking for redical readjustment gender inequality is not innate. co-operation is feel is education is the key. The HeforShe movement is indicative of the social changes brought by the increased availability of information, its a natural progression

The genders are equal they always have been we just have to correct societal processes to reflect that fact. This is not difficult or requiring tectonic shifts just Education and working together.


message 32: by Adam (new)

Adam Sowa | 226 comments In a time that did not have the drastic and damaging changes that climate change is going to bring, I would be on board with pragmatic and gradual change, but we don't have that luxury now.

It's getting lean and mean.

https://youtu.be/EXjMRlAJskI


message 33: by Ross (new)

Ross | 1444 comments Emma Wrote: "It would be interesting to create a network of HeForShe"

I agree Emma that is brilliant. let see what we all can do to make that happen.

If we have all of humanity working as equals we can finally address all our other problems, first things first I say.


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