Outlander Series discussion

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Outlander on Starz S2 > Episode 13 - Dragonfly in Amber

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message 201: by Beth (new)

Beth G | 58 comments It's fun to see how many different views there are on the Claire-Frank relationship. Maybe I'm a bad person, but I never felt that bad for Frank either reading the books or watching the show. Remember, Claire pined for Frank for a year or two even after meeting Jamie. She longed to return and kept trying to get back to the stones even while starting to have feelings for Jamie. And by the end of DIA, she had fallen so hard for Jamie, and then was torn away from him so suddenly. By the time she returned to Frank, she was in shock, and grieving for Jamie, and dealing with the horrible withdrawal of being madly in love and then losing your love. There are physical symptoms and it takes a long time to get over something like that. She had been prepared to stay in the 1,700s with Jamie. She was not prepare to be thrust back into her marriage with Frank. It does not surprise me that she may not have been that sympathetic to Frank because she was absorbed in her own loss. I think DG did a great job of conveying this in the books. Eventually Claire started to recover and found a way to move forward. She did her best in her marriage to Frank but it could never, ever be the same again. And she had promised Jamie that Brianna would have a father, so she couldn't leave Frank. There would be no point anyway. Unless she could have Jamie back, why bother leaving Frank?

Bottom line, her marriage to Frank was good, but her marriage to Jamie was on a totally different level. If you have ever been married, you will probably understand that. To find that rare kind of love and then lose it? Well, there are hardly words.


message 202: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Beth wrote: "It's fun to see how many different views there are on the Claire-Frank relationship. Maybe I'm a bad person, but I never felt that bad for Frank either reading the books or watching the show. Remem..."

Yeah -- and leave your paramour behind by 200 years lol, must be a tough call.


message 203: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Beth wrote: "It's fun to see how many different views there are on the Claire-Frank relationship. Maybe I'm a bad person, but I never felt that bad for Frank either reading the books or watching the show. Remem..."
Actually Claire and Jaime were married within 6 weeks of her arriving in 1743....her decision to stay with Jaime rather than return to Frank was about 6 months after the point of her arrival. In the books she arrived in 1743 having left the 20th century Beltane (May 1/2, 1946) in the series during Sanhaim (Oct31/Nov 1, 1945). She is connected to Frank, feels responsible for ensuring he is born and she loves Frank HOWEVER Jaime is her soul mate.


message 204: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Now lets all wish Caitriona Balfe a happy birthday today!

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message 205: by Mary (new)

Mary Joseph-Alvarado | 195 comments Happy Birthday.


message 206: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader Yes Happy Birthday to her, I imagine all her cast mates will give her a wonderful celebration.


message 207: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Teresa wrote: "Yes Happy Birthday to her, I imagine all her cast mates will give her a wonderful celebration."

Yes it seems like they are talking it up on twitter quite a bit.


message 208: by Salina Hussein (new)

Salina Hussein | 2 comments MichaelCollins wrote: "Now lets all wish Caitriona Balfe a happy birthday today!

She's so gorgeous! I have 'Cait Envy' everytime I see her pics!
And I'm so glad they chose her for Claire too!

"



message 209: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader I am reading Dragonfly in Amber and I'm realizing they sent Claire back to her home instead of to Louise's country estate. I am just at the spot where she stops the fight between Fergus and the stable lads, then discovers the BJR's brand on his body. I am enjoying the changes in the story in the book since it is keeping the reading of things i've watched multiple times fresh. I am marveling at how they were able to keep the feel of what happened, yet keep production costs down by removing an extra shooting space. I think reworking that let them make more of Mother Hildegaard's role in the story too. Was nice that the book didnt go into her sleeping with the King.


message 210: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments DIA was the first Outlander novel I read and glad I started there...maybe I'll go back ironically enough and read the first one but jumped in at DIA as I figured I was familiar enough with the story.

Wanted to make sure after the Starz series I was ready for Voyager.


message 211: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader I enjoyed the first one too but i agree it had been tempting to read ahead based on what i had seen on-screen already. Glad I didn't since there are subtle differences between the show and the books


message 212: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments That is true but have forged ahead to "A Breath of Snow and Ashes" and have learned alot on the background. I figure I';; go back and read the first one once done, then maybe the John Grey series...or the one with Master Raymond and Le Comte St Germain (my favorite villain lol)


message 213: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader i figure since the end of season two, I have read Outlander and half of DIA, I'm fairly sure I will at least have all of Voyager and into Drums before season three of the show begins. I read without fail every night to relax before sleeping and sometimes in the morning to make my mind start working before my body has to. The things a reader has to do too fit books into an insane schedule i guess.


message 214: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Teresa wrote: "i figure since the end of season two, I have read Outlander and half of DIA, I'm fairly sure I will at least have all of Voyager and into Drums before season three of the show begins. I read withou..."

ESPECIALLY given the length of the books -- they seem to average 900-1000 pages, and more detailed as we go along. But its good that you will be finished Voyager and taken a good bite out of Drums. Voyager was alot of fun and slam bang constant action . It was almost good to get into Drums where the pace slowed and Diana concentrated more on how the characters integrated more into 18 cent colonial life.


message 215: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader Oh that's good to know. Glad that the story keeps a good pace across books.


message 216: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Oh very much so although differing opeinions on Fiery Cross (slo) but Voyager has thumbs up


message 217: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader Kinda funny that they changed the poison the would use on Bonnie Prince Charlie. In the book Claire is using cyanide, same as what Geilis used on her hubby. Going to have to look this yellow jasmine stuff from the show up ,(That must be the leftovers from Colum).


message 218: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Yeah I just watched the last ep last night and it vertainly wasn't cyanide


message 219: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader I'm watching it right now lol.


message 220: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Teresa wrote: "I'm watching it right now lol."
Enjoy I might watch it later lol


message 221: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader Diane wrote: "The feel is different in the book than in the TV show and having experienced both it is hard for me to comment with out taking the book into consideration. There is a different slant as far as Fran..."

Finally read past this in Voyager, but now instead of taking a side...i think i feel sorry for both of them. Years spent with only the child to hold them together. I dont even hold his mistresses against him, i was pretty shocked that he felt he had a right to take Bree with him though. It still left me feeling sad to read it, amazing they were able to hold it together that long but that shows the ethical differences between then and now though.


message 222: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Teresa wrote: "Diane wrote: "The feel is different in the book than in the TV show and having experienced both it is hard for me to comment with out taking the book into consideration. There is a different slant ..."

Yeah when I hit that part in Voyager with frank thinking of taking Bree with him I sat up and thought "Huh? Where the hell do you get off justifying that?" I wonder how much of the conflict we will see in Voyager Starz?

As an aside, one interesting comment I read in these forums was the fan theory that Historian/Researcher Frank had come across evidence of Bree travelling to the past and that he had sort of prepared her for that (ie shooting instruction?wilderness hiking?)

Wonder if that had something to do with it.


message 223: by Teresa (new)

Teresa Mader Perhaps above all they both loved Bree. Frank is a good guy i think, he just went looking for his recreation elsewhere. After all Claire pursued her medical career, (but i don't think her grief of leaving Jamie would have allowed her to make a good relationship with Frank) the career probably gave her purpose in her grief too. Kind of sad that the only emotion left even at the end was over the kid. It would have been nicer if they could have been more friends, since they couldn't be true man and wife again.

As to Frank finding info about Bree being in the past, that seems plausible, and as much as he loved her he would have done everything in his power to insure her safety.


message 224: by MichaelCollins (new)

MichaelCollins | 819 comments Oh yeah -- BAFTA day and Diana Wishing Sam and Cait Good luck

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