Outlander Series discussion
Outlander on Starz S2
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Episode 13 - Dragonfly in Amber
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Cheri
(new)
Jul 18, 2016 04:32PM
Did anyone notice in the opening of episode 13 there was a TV on that was playing a British show from 1968 called The Avengers? I got such a tickle about that since I Ioved that show back in the 60's and I knew right away that they were in Claire"s time.
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Cheri wrote: "Did anyone notice in the opening of episode 13 there was a TV on that was playing a British show from 1968 called The Avengers? I got such a tickle about that since I Ioved that show back in the 60..."Yeah Ron wanted to have "Star Trek" on but someone pointed out it wasn't in The United Kingdom til later
Apparently they also looked at Dr Who, the episodes with the companion Jamie McCrimmon as he was DGs inspiration for setting her books in 18th century Scotland but they found out that wasn't airing in Scotland in 1968 either.
Zoey wrote: "Apparently they also looked at Dr Who, the episodes with the companion Jamie McCrimmon as he was DGs inspiration for setting her books in 18th century Scotland but they found out that wasn't airing..."Amazing the details Ron Moore and co attended to in this series. Probably why it is so good.
Cheri wrote: "Did anyone notice in the opening of episode 13 there was a TV on that was playing a British show from 1968 called The Avengers? I got such a tickle about that since I Ioved that show back in the 60..."Yes, I noticed that too. I don't think I ever watched the show but I was aware of the show and the characters.
I especially got a kick out of seeing Diana Rigg in her youth. If you're a fan of Game of Thrones, she plays Margaery's grandmother Olenna Tyrell. She has aged well!
Erin wrote: "Cheri wrote: "Did anyone notice in the opening of episode 13 there was a TV on that was playing a British show from 1968 called The Avengers? I got such a tickle about that since I Ioved that show ..."Not sure what they are gonna draw attention to in Voyager lol
Really? I've never watched Game of Thrones. I'm going to have to watch it just to check out present day Diana Rigg. Thanks for sharing that.
Be careful. Game of Thrones is not something you just check out. You may get hooked. The GOT villains make Black Jack Randall look like a kitten! Well...maybe a slightly rabid kitten...
We started watching GOT when it first came out and our son, who has read the book(s) told me in advance "don't get attached to any one character. You'll be disappointed" He was right, but we stayed with throughout the seasons and it's been a roller coaster ride.
Finished DIA -- now on to Voyager! Surprising how close to the series the ending was but yeah you do notice some differences
Anyone else notice (and was accurately notes in DIA) that before Geillis went thru the stones she was already accurately dressedin 18th century garb. Thought that was a nice attention to detail.
Yes...more proof that she had done her research.
I would like to know more about how she did that research and other time travelers.
Me too! Where, for instance, did she get the idea that one could travel through the stones in the first place? The stories of the auld folk, common in the eighteenth century, surely weren't heard nearly as often in 1968.
Right and what about her thoughts on gemstones (which seem to have some validity) and human sacrifice (not so much) (view spoiler)
True. Although once finding it, I imagine she didn't flinch overmuch about the human sacrifice idea; her husbands would attest to that, right?
Diane wrote: "Right and what about her thoughts on gemstones (which seem to have some validity) and human sacrifice (not so much) [spoilers removed]"I have just started Voyager so I guess I should keep my eyes open for gemstones, which seem to have some significance?
I don't think you have to keep your eyes open per say. I don't know how much emphasis they will put on that. In this episode when she was reading the notebook it did mention the gemstones and human sacrifice and it showed her burning her husband so I think they are going with the book on that aspect.
Plus, we were given a hint in the season premiere when Claire found the ring without a stone after she went through, and then in the finale when Jamie gave her his father's ring, with gemstone intact.
Monica wrote: "Plus, we were given a hint in the season premiere when Claire found the ring without a stone after she went through, and then in the finale when Jamie gave her his father's ring, with gemstone intact."I saw that and wondered if there was some significance to that, given that that seems to be the only noted damage Claire sustained in travelling through the stones.
Keep reading everyone! Much is answered in other books..starting with Voyager! Geillis was a researcher. Much of her research is based on folk tales. Remember when Claire becomes hopeful about the possibility of going back to Frank? A folk song gave her that hope. Diana's books are all about the details! I see a lot of discussion here about the tv show. There are very detailed discussions about the shows on Facebook that might be interesting to those of you who are not totally up on the books yet. Outlandish obsession is one...
Also, we find out about gemstones in Voyager (no spoilers!).
Ok - I'm about 25% way through Voyager so I guess I just have to be patient.
Carol wrote: "Keep reading everyone! Much is answered in other books..starting with Voyager! Geillis was a researcher. Much of her research is based on folk tales. Remember when Claire becomes hopeful about the ..."There is a lot of discussion here about the TV show because this thread is is here to discuss the TV show - specifically the last episode of season two. Of course it is hard not to compare or discuss the books in the process for those who have read the books. We try to spoiler tag anything that may be beyond the show we are discussing so it does not spoil something for those just getting into the books or choosing to only watch the show as it goes. I used to follow the facebook groups because in the beginning I just could not get enough but for me personally, I had to stop with Facebook. I found many of the very vocal members ( not all) posting to be very abrasive and rude to other members and very set in their mind set to the point that they were unable to hear another's opinion with out arguing. I hated the negativity that kept popping up. Of course things could have shifted since I stopped being involved with the groups.
Sorry to hear about the negativity. I am sorry when that jumps up on what is a leisure activity. I guess participants have strong opinions but all should remain polite and civilized. But I will take as a heads up about the gemstones and am getting to Sept 1968 as Claire is contemplating returning and pay close attention !
MichaelCollins wrote: "Sorry to hear about the negativity. I am sorry when that jumps up on what is a leisure activity. I guess participants have strong opinions but all should remain polite and civilized. But I will t..."
Just keep reading - Voyager is one of my favorites in the whole series. I don't think you need to really be looking for gem stones in particular - They will be discussed through out the following books also so you are not likely to miss anything. Enjoy the book!
Diane wrote: "MichaelCollins wrote: "Sorry to hear about the negativity. I am sorry when that jumps up on what is a leisure activity. I guess participants have strong opinions but all should remain polite and ci..."Yeah I'm enjoying it quite a bit and just 1/4 of the way through -- should be real fun!!
Diane wrote: "I would like to know more about how she did that research and other time travelers."Geillis joined the "Druid" group that danced at the stones. The housekeeper seemed to know about time travel, so the group must have had information that she tapped into.
Grandmat wrote: "Diane wrote: "I would like to know more about how she did that research and other time travelers."Geillis joined the "Druid" group that danced at the stones. The housekeeper seemed to know about ..."
Yeah Mrs Graham seemed well versed on the legend -- although she was unable to convince Frank of it but...
One of my favorite scenes in the series (but never took place in the books) is when Frank is driving back to Oxford and passes the road leading to craigh na dun and stops.
He sits and stares with a stoney expression. You could see his mind churning -- Frank the Oxford Historian, Experienced MI6 operative on the surface doesn't believe a word of these fairy tales and yet...
Looking determined, Fran reverses his car, turns off on the road
leading to craigh na dun to investigate on his own!
I loved that scene also. I also loved the connection between Frank and Claire at the stones through time. I liked how it showed the emotion between them. Most people want to discount Frank completely because "Jamie" but Claire did have a connection to Frank that did not shine through in the books and DG always defended the relationship between Claire and Frank after the fact.
Diane wrote: "I loved that scene also. I also loved the connection between Frank and Claire at the stones through time. I liked how it showed the emotion between them. Most people want to discount Frank complete..."Well Tobias Menzies did such an awesome job portraying Black Jack that sorta spilled over into Frank's character. But I always felt sorry for him, figured he loved Claire deeply and then to have her ripped away from him felt sorry for him.
I did also until more was revealed after she returned. I think so many people just couldn't see that Claire DID love him and wanted to return to him until that final decision was made.
Diane wrote: "I did also until more was revealed after she returned. I think so many people just couldn't see that Claire DID love him and wanted to return to him until that final decision was made."Yeah the excerpts in Voyager noting some issues in the Frank/Claire relationship in Boston were pretty pointed. I certainly felt LESS sorry for him, given his behaviour after her return. Was surprised at his demise.
Don't want to go into further detail as some might resent spoilers.
Grandmat wrote: "Diane wrote: "I would like to know more about how she did that research and other time travelers."Geillis joined the "Druid" group that danced at the stones. The housekeeper seemed to know about ..."
Her research was detailed more in the book. It was in her grimmoire notebook. They didn't reveal she was a Druid dancer in the show, but that is where she learned a lot. She also researched news files on disappearances. Claire's disappearance in 1945 and reappearance in 1948 were in her notebook.
Karen wrote: "Grandmat wrote: "Diane wrote: "I would like to know more about how she did that research and other time travelers."Geillis joined the "Druid" group that danced at the stones. The housekeeper seem..."
Interesting that she had noted Claire's activities -- I must have missed that (although it might be upcoming Voyager as I'm 40% through that book)
I did think when she met Claire in the Starz version she seemed overly familiar and knowledgeable about her ("Oh the whole village knows about you Claire!"
That might have been part of it.
I thought it was in DIA but maybe it was Voyager. Claire goes to the library where Geillis had a locked space in a study carrel and finds the grimmoire.
Karen wrote: "I thought it was in DIA but maybe it was Voyager. Claire goes to the library where Geillis had a locked space in a study carrel and finds the grimmoire."Yes they did go through that in Voyager and described the Grimmoire and the parts of Geillis knowledge but I likely gazed over the part depicting Claire's adventures noted.
I do remember it in one of the books but since I blew through the whole series up to #6 back to back things get muddled in my head and I cannot always remember where one book stopped and the next started. I didn't remember that she had documented Claire's disappearance but it makes since since it was reported that she was taken by fairies. I don't think Geillis knew about Claire form her research though. I think she guessed by some of the things Claire knew, said or how she acted.
Diane wrote: "I do remember it in one of the books but since I blew through the whole series up to #6 back to back things get muddled in my head and I cannot always remember where one book stopped and the next s..."I forget -- did Geillis KNOW Claire was a time traveller as well in Outlander as Claire's / Geillis timelines with respect to travel was different (ie Claire mid 40's -- Geillis late '60s)
She guessed it and the vaccination scar proved it. Remember Geillis gave her the date that corresponded with her time line in the 60's. I do not think she knew what Claire's original time was though.
Diane wrote: "She guessed it and the vaccination scar proved it. Remember Geillis gave her the date that corresponded with her time line in the 60's. I do not think she knew what Claire's original time was though."Yeah -- thats it -- I remember the 1,9.6.8 message and the vaccination scar. Funniest thing was when Jamie rescued her, the ep before Lallybroch was Jamie (while Claire was giving a lengthy explanation) asking Claire with a straightest face and in a serious tone normally reserved for political discussion if she was a witch.
I laughed at that -- the seriousness of his question.
Monica wrote: "Be careful. Game of Thrones is not something you just check out. You may get hooked. The GOT villains make Black Jack Randall look like a kitten! Well...maybe a slightly rabid kitten..."This made me laugh! So true!
Diane wrote: "I loved that scene also. I also loved the connection between Frank and Claire at the stones through time. I liked how it showed the emotion between them. Most people want to discount Frank complete..."I have really enjoyed the additional insight into Frank that we are seeing in the TV series. He wasn't always a very sympathetic character in the books though we never know what he's really thinking. A lot of book fans are not particularly Frank fans. We've really gotten to know Frank a lot more in the TV series.
I loved that scene at the stones between Frank and Claire through time where he's yelling her name and she's yelling his. It was powerful and beautifully done. I've seen Tobias Menzes play a lot of bit parts in various TV shows and movies, including Game of Thrones, but this is the first time I've seen him in a substantial role. He's really shown that he has some serious acting skills. He's surprised me multiple times and brought a lot of depth to both roles. The scene in episode 1 of this season when Claire comes back and tells Frank about Jamie and that she's pregnant is another really good one.
Erin wrote: "Diane wrote: "I loved that scene also. I also loved the connection between Frank and Claire at the stones through time. I liked how it showed the emotion between them. Most people want to discount ..."Tobias has an amazing resume -- numerous plays, Rome, GoT, Night Manager and now Outlander, where I thought he did he amazing work and was overlooked at both GG and the Emmy's. Wonder how he will fare at the BAFTA's (Well...if there is any justice)
I never disliked Frank. It's as though before her world expanded to include the impossible, he was enough for Claire, but once she came back she'd had more and that was no longer the case. With this distance between them that Claire couldn't quite breach, Frank sought love and intimacy elsewhere, but the love each of them held individually for Brianna was enough to keep them together.
Silverblades wrote: "I never disliked Frank. It's as though before her world expanded to include the impossible, he was enough for Claire, but once she came back she'd had more and that was no longer the case. With thi..."Yeah thats good point, I hadn't really thought of it that way but Claire certainly was exposed to a wider expanse to the point where Frank then was at a disadvantage
MichaelCollins wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "I never disliked Frank. It's as though before her world expanded to include the impossible, he was enough for Claire, but once she came back she'd had more and that was no long..."On a smaller scale the idea even applies to their distance during the war, as she becomes capable in her own right.
As for me, I tend to seek to evaluate characters in their reactions to situations rather than to try to imagine them in relation to my own life or feelings. I love Outlander for Diana's skill in creating real, human characters and allowing them to live their lives rather than to bend them to her will.
Silverblades wrote: "MichaelCollins wrote: "Silverblades wrote: "I never disliked Frank. It's as though before her world expanded to include the impossible, he was enough for Claire, but once she came back she'd had mo..."Her writing is certainly skilful in that regard and she certainly keep you from being bored!!
IF you get a chance to re-watch the last ep of S2 Dragonfly in Amber just for laughs pay attention to Murtaghs and Jamie's sword carriers -- for one thing the leather of the straps of the scabbard looks like they just got them from Walmart as they are brand new and shiny not looking like they just went through a brutal campaign with all the muck and bloodshed.Yeah that's real picky as Terry Dresbach did an otherwise superb job in costuming. But its REAL noticeable as the leather supporting the scabbards does go high up across the shoulder next to face.
