Rants, Raves and other random thoughts (spoilers in tags)

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

Let's discuss!

Please put any spoilerish comments inside spoiler tags and title them with the page or percent location of the book so others know whether the comment is safe to read given their progress in the book.

For example, at around 40% (view spoiler)[I'm not sure I get it. On average, there were 20 girls in the garden at any given time. So far, only two captors. The captors were seldom in the Garden at the same time. Why didn't the relatively large group of girls gang up on the Gardner and overpower him? (hide spoiler)]

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

At 54% (view spoiler)["After that evening, he always had this frown when he looked at either of the twins. Then one night the walls came down. Two days later, they were placed immediately to the right of the dining room.”" --- he has to have help - there's no way he's doing this all on his own - or that all those girls are so scared of a single person (hide spoiler)]

I've been thinking about moving on to a different book since about the 30% mark. I hope some of my skepticism is addressed later in the story, otherwise I'm going to be a little disappointed with it.

[Ela]

Shit, I don't know how to hide spoilers....help Fabi???

But to answer your questions I honestly don't know but I have to agree with you on both accounts. We know he had Avery's help but not with the second part so I'm guessing *spoiler*

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

Oh, dang it! You're farther along than I am in the book. So it sounds like I'm going to regret reading it. It skims one of my triggers and I was hoping...oh well. Thanks for answering!!!

The spoiler tags are easy. Just use one of these "<" then the word "spoiler", then close it with this one, ">". Write your comment, and at the end of it use this "<"/spoiler">". Take off all the quote marks. I'm only using them so the word and carrots show up right now.

There are some basic html instructions right above the comment window in the right hand side. Click the link "(some html is ok)".

[Ela]

Testing spoiler (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

[Ela]

Ok not that I'm farther ahead, although I am but (view spoiler)[I'm thinking he locks the girls in their rooms right when he's about to "preserve them" and when he does this he tackles one at a time and probably drugs them, remember at the beginning how Maya said every night she was given pills to "sleep", well that's what I'm thinking he does to take care of business. These girls are all fairly tiny and fit so seeing as he's "built" and what not it shouldn't be a problem for him to "take care of business"....the sick fuck! (hide spoiler)]

What's your hard limit or trigger?

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

@62% (view spoiler)[Why not give them abortions? It seems like such a waste to kill them just because they're pregnant when he went to so much trouble to get them and acclimate them to the Garden. (hide spoiler)]

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

Ela, I know what you're saying and it would make sense if his actions were a surprise like they are in the beginning. (view spoiler)[ but after they've been there a few weeks, they know how he is. So why not attack and break free? (hide spoiler)]

lol, my trigger in books, in case you haven't figured it out yet, is ...not really a spoiler, but just in case...(view spoiler)[heroines who don't fight back. Wimpy, accepting or resigned heroines quickly ruin a story for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Ela]

Fabi wrote: "@62% [spoilers removed]"

I totally agree and this surprised me the most!!!!!!! The only logical answer would be that (view spoiler)[he would have to take them to a clinic and Lorraine isn't experienced enough to do abortions??? That's my guess or he might see them as "damaged" and no longer "his beautiful butterflies" once they had an abortion? Honestly I don't have a clue what goes through a psychos had? Maybe he likes the kill? Otherwise why waste them? (hide spoiler)]

[Ela]

Fabi wrote: "Ela, I know what you're saying and it would make sense if his actions were a surprise like they are in the beginning. [spoilers removed]

lol, my trigger in books, in case you haven't figured it ou..."

No you are totally right and I'm just trying to justify their actions because YOU ARE RIGHT...ok so (view spoiler)[the garden is enclosed, there is ONLY one door out where you need the code, then there's Avery and Lorraine but if The Gardner is forced, shit I don't know...oh and remember he can poison them through the ducts, maybe he has something on his person that can trigger something like that (hide spoiler)]

Oh yeah that TRIGGER...lmao.....I really don't view HER as THAT

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

You're generous. I'm looking at a lot of these things as plot holes. I have no doubt this book is going to be wildly popular. It already is. But unless the last third of the book does some serious tidying up and filling in the plot, my review is going to be unpopular.

Oh my God, another thing I'm struggling with...(view spoiler)[when you write a sociopathic or psychopathic character, you have to give your readers at least a small "tell" that there is something wrong with that character. At 62%, I haven't received an iota of reason to why he does what he does. Outside of his horrific acrions, he's presented as a rather nice guy. So I have no tick, no clue, and a total disconnect between the character I'm introduced to and that character's actions. (hide spoiler)]

I think this is another one where, if it wasn't a buddy read, I would have dnfed. <--- book lingo :-). But, I never dnf on BR.

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

Ela, he does (view spoiler)[ have a remote in his pocket and maybe it could potentially trigger poisonous gas. But would he trigger it with himself inside the Garden? ----oh!!! Another inconsistency I grappled with...When she was in the kitchen with Des peeling an orange --- really? they have access to knives?! Shoot, I could think of some wonderful ways to make use of a knife besides peeling an orange. (hide spoiler)]

You don't view HER as THAT but she was there for (view spoiler)[ TWO YEARS without fighting back, simply reciting poetry. (hide spoiler)] No.Freakin.Way

[Ela]

OMG Fabi!!!!!!!!!!! You are making me question everything!!!!!!!! (view spoiler)[at that kitchen where she had the orange, there are no knives. How did I miss the part where he has a remote??? I actually think he would push it with him inside because HE IS A SELFISH MOTHERFUCKER AND WOULD RATHER DIE THAN FACE CLEANUP OF SUCH DISASTER. Going back to the knife, she mentions there are 2 kitchens one with knives and 1 without. There has to be something at the end, some twist SOMETHING because The Gardner even gives one of the girls knitting scissors that are capable of cutting hair. I'm starting to really think Maya is in on ALL of this shit and is a very good story teller/liar??? Fuck ME! I'm at work sneaking glimpses at my damn phone! (hide spoiler)]

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

(view spoiler)[if there are no knives in the kitchen, then how did she peel the orange "always trying to do it so the rind peels off as a continueous piece? Not so easy to do without a knife. ---- And I'm not questioning Maya. Even though I don't particularly like her. I'm questiong the six generations of butterflies. Come on! Not a single successful jail break in 30 years when the prisoners outnumber the guard 20 to 1 and he walks freely among them often with his pant down? (hide spoiler)] women are not that weak. At the risk of coming across as a chauvinist, I have to say that most male authors never paint women as weak in their plots.

[Ela]

I have no excuse for his psycho behaviors and I agree (view spoiler)[the character development did not paste him in much of a psychotic way, maybe if his cruelty was described more then it would make sense, because he did punish them even if their hair was down (he raped Maya) but then again he rapes them ALL the FUCKING TIME! Geez, if it was all Avery then it would make it much more sense; that kid is so fucked in the head it's not even funny! (hide spoiler)]

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

(view spoiler)[ oh yeah, he used his pocket remote to bring the walls down when Des surprised him in the Garden (hide spoiler)]

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

I'm about to go into the last third of the book and so far, this plot leaks like a sieve.

[Ela]

Fabi wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

Ah now I remember!

[Ela]

Fabi wrote: "[spoilers removed] women are not that weak. At the risk of coming across as a chauvinist, I have to say that most male authors never paint women as weak in their plots."

You just wait! Things are getting better and better but I can't seem to find it in me to not love this book. Oh and I "accidentally" read some spoilers and I hope they lie because I will be Pissed the 'ef off!

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

That's what I'm hoping for Ela. Something happening in the last third of the book to completely change my mind and pull all of this nonesense into some kind of cohesive story for me. (But, I don't want to read spoilers unless I plan to dnf at this point)

[Ela]

Um...sadly I'm being sarcastic...I'm at 87%

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

I just hit 74% and it's break time for me. This new thing with Des. *shakes head* so not working for me

[Ela]

Same here! I was hoping Des would add something to storyline but sadly I haven't seen it yet.

[Ed]

Boy guys, I thought I was a nitpicker!

You're talking about a bunch of teeny girls girls here - 13 to 18 for one thing, some of them pretty fragile, so the idea of a rebellion is questionable. Some of these girls may not even have wanted to escape based on their backgrounds. Who knows? It's often stated that some of them had their faces tattooed to please the master so it's quite likely they would have immediately informed him of any pending escape plot.

Inara often states she is hesitant to do anything (like an escape attempt) that might get the other girls killed. And I buy that. If some of them made it out he would certainly have killed the rest of them. It might be frustrating but it seems a legitimate concern.

I think Des adds a new layer of frustration, and to me that is the central feeling behind this book. Inara dribbles out her story in frustrating little bits. The reader is frustrated at this and at the girl's captivity but it kind of demands one's attention. I know it worked that way for me. I couldn't stop reading it.

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

The "girls" are 16-21 years old instead of your 13-18. It's such a small difference in years but in human development 13-16 is huge.

Dev is a junior in college, his naivette is a little over the top.

[Ela]

Well technically they can't really be 21 cause you know...LOL

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

Ela!!! You're bad...but right

[Ed]

I believe some of the later girls were very young. She even describes one brought in by the som as being barely a teen. You still have the issue of retaliation and the fact that some of the girls craved the master's attention.

I have no doubt that Inara on her own would have killed her captor without hesitation.

[Fabi NEEDS Email Notifications]

Ed, I think we read different books. In this one the captor is very specific about (view spoiler)[ never kidnapping anyone under 16 years of age. He is suppossedly extremely good at judging ages and always errs on the side of too old rather than too young. (hide spoiler)]

As far as the others craving his attention, it was pointed out that "at one time" some of them considered getting closer to him as a way to getting out of there. However, as presented in the story, the one character that had face tatoos we were introduced to had definitely learned that it didn't work and was already dissolutioned.

[Emily]

Fabi wrote: "@62% [spoilers removed]" You have to remember that he is looking at the women more as a collection. When one of them is "ruined", it's easier to end their lives and add another butterfly to the collection. He's obviously pretty fucked up, so I think that in his mind, he is preserving their beauty by killing them, and he sees it as less of a hassle to kidnap another butterfly to someday add to the collection instead of performing abortions on the butterflies that become pregnant.

[Emily]

Fabi wrote: "You're generous. I'm looking at a lot of these things as plot holes. I have no doubt this book is going to be wildly popular. It already is. But unless the last third of the book does some serious ..." (view spoiler)[ I think his tick could be that his wife is old and dying, so he uses the young girls to fill some sort of void in his life. But I do agree that there are plot holes. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Emily]

Ed wrote: "Boy guys, I thought I was a nitpicker!

You're talking about a bunch of teeny girls girls here - 13 to 18 for one thing, some of them pretty fragile, so the idea of a rebellion is questionable. Som..."
wow I totally agree with you on this one

[Emily]

Fabi wrote: "The "girls" are 16-21 years old instead of your 13-18. It's such a small difference in years but in human development 13-16 is huge.

Dev is a junior in college, his naivette is a little over the top."

I think Ed is right (view spoiler)[ about the girls most likely being younger though. We already know Maya/Inara was lying about her age when she started working at the restaurant. (she was 14) If the gardener had any way of looking up her age, he would most likely have found the one on her fake ID, which said she was older than she really was. This is definitely possible for the other girls as well. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Yaya]

Fabi wrote: "@62% [spoilers removed]"

Ela wrote: "Ok not that I'm farther ahead, although I am but [spoilers removed]

What's your hard limit or trigger?"

I agree with you. Also do birth controls not exist or what? There are places you can get them for free and condoms too.

[Sanika]

All i want to know is inaara's real name!

[Yaya]

@sanika why?

[Jacque]

I agree with you. Also do birth control..."


Lorain gives them shots every few months and it's explained away that sometimes they don't work. Nothing is 100%, right?

I wanted to know her real name forever, too! It drove me nuts.

I loved the book, but don't think it'll do real well as a movie, to be honest.

[Nicole]

He's not a sociopath, he's just bored ;)

[S.T.]

I agree, he is a sociopath but I don't think it's boredom he is dealing with. It's the memory of his father and how he lost his life's work. This person thinks he has found a way to preserve it although his actions are a bit extreme and perverse. One thing we have all learned is that nothing lasts forever.