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Archived Group Reads 2016 > June Book of the Month - Until the Dawn by Elizabeth Camden

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message 1: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Until The Dawn by Elizabeth Camden

A volunteer for the newly established Weather Bureau, Sophie van Riijn needs access to the highest spot in her village to report the most accurate readings. Fascinated by Dierenpark, an abandoned mansion high atop a windswept cliff in the Hudson River Valley, Sophie knows no better option despite a lack of permission from the absent owners.

The first Vandermark to return to the area in sixty years, Quentin intends to put an end to the shadowy rumors about the property that has brought nothing but trouble upon his family. Ready to tear down the mansion, he is furious to discover a local woman has been trespassing on his land.

Instantly at odds, Quentin and Sophie find common ground when she is the only one who can reach his troubled son. There's a light within Sophie that Quentin has never known, and a small spark of the hope that left him years ago begins to grow. But when the secrets of Dierenpark and the Vandermark family history are no longer content to stay in the past, will tragedy triumph or can their tenuous hope prevail?


message 2: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
I started this today and am already loving it.


message 3: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 945 comments I'm going to try to get through this one. I could hardly wait to read it when it came out, but somehow I haven't yet...


message 4: by Kristen (new)

Kristen | 18 comments I read this a while back. it was good! I love Elizabeth Camden though :-)


message 5: by Sandra (new)

Sandra (goodreadscomsandraardoin) | 2 comments I'm a slobbering fan, and she always has such interesting/unique heroes. This one is no different.


message 6: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
I agree Sandra. Right now I'd like to give Quentin a slap upside the head LOL:)


message 7: by Loraine, CFD Momma (last edited Jun 03, 2016 07:10PM) (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
I just finished this one and absolutely loved it. Have any of you read any other books by Elizabeth Camden?

I've read:
Against the Tide by Elizabeth Camden The Lady of Bolton Hill by Elizabeth Camden The Rose of Winslow Street by Elizabeth Camden

and thought each of these was great too.


message 8: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 945 comments I have read everything she's written except for this book and the novella for the new book.


message 9: by Diamond (new)

Diamond Jones-Cox (mzaware28) | 19 comments Elizabeth Camden is one of my favorite authors. I loved this book!


message 10: by Beth, Head Librarian (last edited Jun 11, 2016 11:33AM) (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Yay for finally getting to read one of the other group reads!

I've read three of her novels - The Lady of Bolton Hill, The Rose of Winslow Street and With Every Breath. I preferred The Lady of Bolton Hill and With Every Breath over Rose of Winslow Street, although it seems most feel the opposite. The Lady of Bolton Hill and With Every Breath I enjoyed equally. I hope to read Against the Tide next, so that I can read grown-up Bane's story. :)

I'm about 75% through with this one, and I'm really liking it! The history and setting are so captivating, even though the chemistry is a bit fizzling for me on the characters end.

I really love the details about Dierenpark and the nature surrounding it. Elizabeth does such a great job at really grounding you in the setting. Oh, and the Weather Bureau details area so interesting, too. Elizabeth seems to write such unique details and concepts into her stories - loved that!

And am I the only one that gets hungry reading the scenes where Sophie is cooking?? :D

I hope I can finish this tonight/tomorrow.


message 11: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Also, I already want Elizabeth to write a book about Pieter. :)


message 12: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
No you are not the only one who gets hungry when Sophie is cooking. She made my stomach rumble several times!! I loved the weather bureau details as Sophie was so much ahead of her time with her scientific interests. I would love a book about Pieter as well. Unfortunately, Elizabeth doesn't seem to write series but rather solo books. I have messaged her and asked her to come visit with us, but have not received any answer as of yet.


message 13: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
I don't even like oysters or chowder, but the way she describes it made it so tasty! LOL


message 14: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
I don't know about oysters but I absolutely LOVE chowder!!!


message 15: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Raw oysters are so beyond gross to me, but I know people that just love them. I've had one and that was enough for the rest of my life, lol.

I probably haven't had real chowder. It's not really a mainstay in TN soups, haha.


message 16: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Beth wrote: "Raw oysters are so beyond gross to me, but I know people that just love them. I've had one and that was enough for the rest of my life, lol.

I probably haven't had real chowder. It's not really a ..."


LOL:) I am California girl who got transplanted to Texas and then to Colorado and was raised by Canadian parents, but I love New England Style clam chowder!


message 17: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Does the kind from Campbell's soup count?? Because that's all I've had, haha.


message 18: by Loraine, CFD Momma (last edited Jun 11, 2016 03:15PM) (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
It's OK but the real stuff is a whole lot better!!! If you ever get close to a Red Lobster restaurant in Tennessee, try their New England Clam Chowder:)


message 19: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
I'll put it on my mental bucket list for food. :)


message 20: by Jen (new)

Jen | 1 comments Beth wrote: "Yay for finally getting to read one of the other group reads!
I preferred The Lady of Bolton Hill and With Every Breath over Rose of Winslow Street, although it seems most feel the opposite. "


I loved With Ever Breath. =} One of my favorite reads of the year.


message 21: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 945 comments Eeewww. I hated reading about them eating the oysters raw!! Nasty...


message 22: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Hannah wrote: "Eeewww. I hated reading about them eating the oysters raw!! Nasty..."

Completely agree!


rebecca drozdowski | 5 comments Loraine wrote: "I just finished this one and absolutely loved it. Have any of you read any other books by Elizabeth Camden?

I've read:
Against the Tide by Elizabeth Camden [bookcover:The Lady of Bolton Hill|9374..."


I stumbled across this last week and downloaded Against the Tide and LOVED IT!!!! So then I downloaded The Lady of Bolton Hill because I wanted to know more about Alexander Banebridge. What an amazing character!


message 24: by Staci, Book Awards Specialist (new)

Staci | 1590 comments Mod
It's been a while since I read Until the Dawn, but I hope to chime in some to the discussion. I've read a few others by Elizabeth Camden:

Into the Whirlwind by Elizabeth Camden Against the Tide by Elizabeth Camden Beyond All Dreams by Elizabeth Camden With Every Breath by Elizabeth Camden Toward the Sunrise (Until The Dawn .5) by Elizabeth Camden The Lady of Bolton Hill by Elizabeth Camden


message 25: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Staci wrote: "It's been a while since I read Until the Dawn, but I hope to chime in some to the discussion. I've read a few others by Elizabeth Camden:

Into the Whirlwind by Elizabeth Camden[bookcover:Against ..."


Which one is your favorite of the ones you've read?


message 26: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
I finished UtD yesterday - very satisfying ending. I love how the mystery of it all ended up! :)


message 27: by Staci, Book Awards Specialist (new)

Staci | 1590 comments Mod
Against the Tide is easily my favorite. Loved that one!


message 28: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Staci wrote: "Against the Tide is easily my favorite. Loved that one!"

It's definitely the one of hers that I want to read next!


message 29: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Staci wrote: "Against the Tide is easily my favorite. Loved that one!"

I really enjoyed that one as well.


message 30: by Loraine, CFD Momma (last edited Jun 16, 2016 12:17PM) (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
First, I'm happy to announce I heard from Elizabeth Camden today. She will be joining our discussion so put your thinking caps on and come up with some questions you would like to know about the story behind Until the Dawn or about her writing in general.

Second, I will be posting discussing questions in the next post. Please hide any spoilers for those in our group who are still reading. Please feel free to answer any or all of the discussion questions or pose one of your own.


message 31: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
1. Marten and Sophie remain friends despite the painful breakup of their earlier relationship. Is it possible to remain friends with someone you once loved romantically, even if they let you down? Why do so few people manage it?

2. Nickolaas looks for spirituality everywhere, but his curiosity rarely lasts long. Do you know people who “shop for a religion? Is there something worthwhile in sampling other religions? What are the potential problems with it?

3. At the beginning of the novel, Quentin has contempt for all forms of religion based on Nickolaas’s erratic spiritual quests. Do you know of people who have soured on religious faith because of an isolated negative experience? What is the best way to respond to such a situation?

4. Sophie loves cooking recipes that have been handed down to her from generations of her ancestors. Do you have any family recipes you cherish? Is it based on the quality of the recipe or on something else?

5. A major theme of the novel relates to love all people, not just those we deem worth of love. What are the practical implications of this in your life?

6. Are there any places where you believe it is easier to feel closer to God? What do you suppose gives such places that quality?

7. Why is Quentin so adamant that his son not become one of the “idle rich”? Do you know of any such people? How did it work out for them?

8. At the beginning of the novel, Pieter believes that his grandfather is the only person who loves him, and he fears his father. Should a parent and grandparent have different roles in a child’s life? What are the problems and benefits of such roles?

9. Sophie and Marten were supposed to marry when they were eighteen, and she later admits they were too young to be making that sort of commitment. Is there a right age at which to marry?

10. What sort of future do you imagine for Quentin and Sophie? For Pieter? For Dierenpark?


message 32: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth Camden (elizabethcamden) | 8 comments Hi Everyone....Elizabeth here. THANK YOU to Loraine for asking me aboard. I can't tell you how flattered I am by your comments. I spent five years getting manuscripts rejected hand-over-fist before I finally got "the call" for The Lady of Bolton Hill. Anyway....after some 150+ rejections, its wonderful to see such nice comments!

I'm glad people are enjoying Sophie's cooking! I'm neither a foodie nor much of a cook, so I worked hard on that component. To answer question 4 on the list above: My grandmother lived with us when I was growing up, and the only recipe she could make was ground hamburger, flour, onions, all fried up with a few sliced potatoes. It was truly awful....but to this day I love that recipe. It is comfort food.

Thanks again for inviting me aboard, and feel free to beam me any questions you like. I've developed a thick hide over the years and don't mind critical feedback at all. That which does not kill me makes me stronger, and all!


message 33: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
I'll jump in on #4 as well and thank you Elizabeth for joining us. Growing up I strongly remember on New Year's Day having Plum Pudding with Brandy sauce as both of my parents were Canadian and my mom's dad was English. She had grown up having it. She had my grandmother's recipe for the Brandy Sauce which was absolutely scrumptious. I kept asking my mother for it after I got married and never got it. After my mom passed, I thought the recipe was gone for sure. While going through a box of her recipe cards, I found the Brandy Sauce recipe written in my mom's own hand. I treasure it to this day and order a plum pudding online and fix Brandy sauce on New Year's Day.


message 34: by Staci, Book Awards Specialist (new)

Staci | 1590 comments Mod
It's been a while since I read Until the Dawn so some details escape me. Here's my thoughts on a couple of questions.

#2 I do not know people that shop religions, but have known some to shop churches. While I definitely believe in visiting churches until one finds the right fit, it seems some spend more time on this exercise than others. Is that because they feel led to keep searching? Is it because they expect perfection? Are those that don't shop long "easy to please"? Not sure what the right answers are, but definitely interesting to see the variance in approaches.

#4 Um...I definitely do not enjoy cooking, but do enjoy eating. :-) I am hoping my daughter learns some family recipes from my mom. The family shouldn't count on me for this.

#6 I definitely feel closer to God in nature. See God's beauty puts me in awe and I feel closer as a result. I also feel closer to God when I am with others that are Christ centered.

#9 The age in which a couple marries should vary depending on the couple. Some will be mature enough at 18 and others not until 40.


message 35: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Staci - I totally agree with your answers to #6 and #9. Nature whether it be the ocean, a lake, the mountains is where I feel the closest to God. And the age couples marry totally depends on their maturity level and understanding of the marriage commitment and what it entails.


message 36: by Sara (new)

Sara | 75 comments I just started this book today. This will be the fifth book I have read by Elizabeth Camden, plus two novellas,and I have loved them all. I am enjoying the comments so far in this discussion.


message 37: by Sara (new)

Sara | 75 comments I am about half way through this book now and am loving it. The descriptions of food are making me very hungry!!! I am a lousy cook myself but do remember family favorite foods that I wish I had the recipes for.


message 38: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
1. Marten and Sophie remain friends despite the painful breakup of their earlier relationship. Is it possible to remain friends with someone you once loved romantically, even if they let you down? Why do so few people manage it?

I think it's possible to be civil, even if not necessarily friends. I think for Sophie and Martin, enough time had passed to put it behind them. They realized that they were too young, etc.

2. Nickolaas looks for spirituality everywhere, but his curiosity rarely lasts long. Do you know people who “shop for a religion? Is there something worthwhile in sampling other religions? What are the potential problems with it?

I've never known anyone to shop different religions, but I do know people that constantly change churches, like Staci mentioned, or seem to be all about what's trending (small groups, Bible journaling, etc)

3. At the beginning of the novel, Quentin has contempt for all forms of religion based on Nickolaas’s erratic spiritual quests. Do you know of people who have soured on religious faith because of an isolated negative experience? What is the best way to respond to such a situation?

Yes, for sure. I know someone that swore off Christianity because they were horribly mistreated by so-called Christians. Years later, they became saved, but it was only after seeing others lead by example more than any words spoken.

4. Sophie loves cooking recipes that have been handed down to her from generations of her ancestors. Do you have any family recipes you cherish? Is it based on the quality of the recipe or on something else?

I have recipes from my mom, but they weren't necessarily handed down. We do have an egg noodle recipe/process that came from my great grandmother. I've yet to make it alone though, it's always a joint effort between my mom, brother and sister-in-law. We used to roll the dough and cut the noodles by hand, and it took hours, but my mom got a mixer, which works the dough and has a different piece to attach when you're ready to cut the noodles. So we set up an assembly line, and it's really fun. One of my favorite memories to think back on for sure.

5. A major theme of the novel relates to love all people, not just those we deem worth of love. What are the practical implications of this in your life?

For me, it's remembering that Jesus died for me and God loves me in spite of myself, to always strive to view others this way. I don't always succeed, of course, but it does help me check myself when I find myself feeling or thinking the opposite.

6. Are there any places where you believe it is easier to feel closer to God? What do you suppose gives such places that quality?

I definitely feel closer to God when I'm out in His creation. Even just stepping out into the sunlight helps. I also just feel closer to God at home. It seems silly perhaps, but there is something holy to me in the everyday, the way the morning light spills through into the kitchen. It's small, quiet moments like that when I'm overcome with gratitude, and I try to carry that moment with me throughout the day.

7. Why is Quentin so adamant that his son not become one of the “idle rich”? Do you know of any such people? How did it work out for them?

Honestly, I don't really know of anyone like this. Most in my sphere of interaction are full-time working people, or they are stay at home mom's, which let's be honest, is working full time and then some!

8. At the beginning of the novel, Pieter believes that his grandfather is the only person who loves him, and he fears his father. Should a parent and grandparent have different roles in a child’s life? What are the problems and benefits of such roles?

I think it's wonderful when children have a good relationship with their grandparents. I do think there could be a point, as with this story, that it's unhealthy and could cause problems. However, I think a close relationship has benefits that far outweigh any negatives.

9. Sophie and Marten were supposed to marry when they were eighteen, and she later admits they were too young to be making that sort of commitment. Is there a right age at which to marry?

I don't think there is a right age to marry. I was 23, which I thought was too young, even when I knew it to be the right thing to do, haha. It just didn't fit my "plan" that I thought I had. You know, the one where I have a thriving career in a place far from my home town, THEN meet the man of my dreams. So not how it happened. I don't think it's a matter of age, but rather a matter of maturity and whether or not the two people are committed to it.

10. What sort of future do you imagine for Quentin and Sophie? For Pieter? For Dierenpark?

I envision a wonderful, happy future for Quentin and Sophie. I think Pieter will continue to grow happier and well-rounded with Sophie as a mother. Dierenpark seems set up to be the perfect place for people to heal, and I thought it was lovely that it became that sort of facility.


message 39: by Beth, Head Librarian (new)

Beth | 2202 comments Mod
Loraine wrote: "No you are not the only one who gets hungry when Sophie is cooking. She made my stomach rumble several times!! I loved the weather bureau details as Sophie was so much ahead of her time with her sc..."

Loraine, you mentioned that Elizabeth doesn't do series, which is true, however, she has brought a characters back that was a child in previous books. In Lady of Bolton Hill, Bane is a child, and then in Against the Tide, he is all grown up and one of the main characters.

I'm holding out hope that maybe on day the inspiration will strike her for a story about Pieter. ;)


message 40: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Beth wrote: "Loraine wrote: "No you are not the only one who gets hungry when Sophie is cooking. She made my stomach rumble several times!! I loved the weather bureau details as Sophie was so much ahead of her ..."

I've read both of those and didn't make the connection - duh:( I would love a story about Pieter!


message 41: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 945 comments I can't recall which book it is without going to all my reviews, but in one book a character mentioned the lovely rose soaps they got from a certain spot...and the story about the rose products was in The Rose of Winslow Street by Elizabeth Camden . I loved that little tidbit!


message 42: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Hannah - you and Beth are great spotters of literary connections! I'll claim old age as why I don't catch them LOL:)


message 43: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 945 comments Found it: here's my review of Against the Tide by Elizabeth Camden
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


message 44: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth Camden (elizabethcamden) | 8 comments Hi Hannah, Loraine, and folks..... Wow, I'm impressed you noticed that glancing reference to the rose-scented soaps! I smiled when I wrote that passage and wondered if anyone would notice.

I rarely do sequels or linked stories because I find it locks me into a setting and cast of characters. When I was an unpublished newbie I started on a trilogy, but Bethany House only bought the first book. They thought the proposed sequels were too odd and risky. I was heart-broken because the BOOKS WERE ALREADY WRITTEN and I had to shelve them! Grrrrr.... It turned out that people liked Bane so much from "The Lady of Bolton Hill" that my publisher eventually gave me permission to bring out book #2, which was Against the Tide. Book #3 (about the Admiral) is still under my bed. I don't know if it will ever see the light of day.

Hey....I'm just glad people are willing to read my stuff, and as long as Bethany House wants to keep me on their payroll I am happy to keep plugging away.


message 45: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
Elizabeth we're so happy you keep plugging away because your books are just wonderful! You keep writing and we'll keep reading.


message 46: by Staci, Book Awards Specialist (new)

Staci | 1590 comments Mod
Interesting!!! Against the Tide is my favorite. I'm glad it saw the light of day...


message 47: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 945 comments I most definitely hope to read the third book someday! I'm hoping that your publisher will go ahead and buy it. But if you end up self-publishing someday, like Jody Hedlund did, then I promise to buy a paperback copy of my own!!

What I always have loved is that the historic stuff is so well researched. Historical oopses completely ruin books for me.

It seems that the fictional world becomes more real when characters who are in similar circumstances (cities, etc) run across characters from other books. I particularly enjoy that in Irene Hannon's books...she's one that comes to mind most easily. (Oh, and Mary Connealy...) It always makes my heart happy to see a recurring character pop up outside of a series.

I feel like you as the author just gave me a candy for being a faithful reader when that happens! :)


message 48: by Loraine, CFD Momma (new)

Loraine (librarydiva) | 3036 comments Mod
I want to thank Elizabeth Camden for joining us this month. I hope everyone who took part in this group read enjoyed our discussion.


message 49: by Brandi (new)

Brandi | 141 comments This book was awesome! I really enjoyed it! Wish I could've made it for the discussion. :)
My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


rebecca drozdowski | 5 comments Staci wrote: "Interesting!!! Against the Tide is my favorite. I'm glad it saw the light of day..."

Against the Tide is my favorite also. I LOVED it!


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