Netherland - Pages 01-83 (June 2016)

[Casceil]

This thread is for discussion of the first part of the book. There are no chapter breaks in this book, but there are sort of three sections (where there is a break with the next part starting on the next page). These "sections" aren't numbered, and I am not sure that there is any significance to where the breaks fall, but I am using them for purposes of organizing the discussion.

[Casceil]

[Dianne]

In this section the character of Hans is so incredibly listless, enervated, almost depressed that I think I would have packed up and left him too. His life seems to be in shambles, his family is falling apart, and he seems like he is caught in an undertow rather than an agent in his own life. And then.... cricket? It almost seems like the book should just be about cricket. What a fascinating story! (I'm actually not being sarcastic) I had no idea about the history of cricket in the US or the role it has in immigrant culture. It is fascinating! Yet contrasted with the post 9-11 plot and Hans' slide down his own slippery slope, it seems hard to determine where the cricket fits in. And the character of Chuck is bizarre. Is he supposed to represent the struggle to achieve the American Dream?

[Casceil]

Hans does seem pretty pathetic in this part, doesn't he? Once Rachel leaves, taking their son with her (which only takes about 30 pages), we finds Hans sort of "hospitalized" at the Chelsea hotel, not leaving his room for almost a week. Then he starts hanging out in the lobby, just sitting, until the bellman and the desk clerk take pity on him and invite him behind the counter to watch games on TV with them. We start to learn more about the hotel, its decor, and some of its other residents. At p. 34, we find out that Hans is paying $6,000 a month in rent, which he thought was a good deal until he found out what another tenant was paying. One thing I got from the article on the Chelsea Hotel was that in its later years it was sort of an artists' colony, and artists got cheap rent, some of which they paid by contributing their art to the hotel. This is why the hotel has so many paintings. Here is an excerpt from the article:

"In its last half-century, the Chelsea was run as an informal artists’ colony. Artists traded paintings for rent, or lived for free, subsidized by the exorbitant rates paid by the troubled children of the hyper-rich—another demographic that has historically been drawn to the hotel. Tourists from all over the world paid for cheerless rooms and the opportunity to sit in the moldering lobby and gawk. "

Hans seems to have fallen into this second category.

[Dianne]

Casceil wrote: "Hans does seem pretty pathetic in this part, doesn't he? Once Rachel leaves, taking their son with her (which only takes about 30 pages), we finds Hans sort of "hospitalized" at the Chelsea hotel, ..."

Agree, as does the mentally ill angel! As I dive into the middle section a lot more is revealed about our protagonist and the plot thickens on the cricket front, so I'll probably move over to that thread. In this intro section it isn't clear what prompted their move to chelsea, although I had read about it in a book review. I'm interested to see how 9/11 impacts the key characters and their decisions afterwards.

[Casceil]

Here are link to a couple of stories about how Tribeca was affected by 9/11. The book never says whether Hans and Rachel's loft was actually in the "frozen zone", but since there is a reference at some point to how they didn't move back, even after they got permission to do so, I'm assuming it was supposed to be.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/...
http://nymag.com/news/9-11/10th-anniv...

[Lily]

Casceil wrote: "Here are link to a couple of stories about how Tribeca was affected by 9/11. The book never says whether Hans and Rachel's loft was actually in the "frozen zone", but since there is a reference at ..."

Casceil -- thx for those two links. Even living here in NJ, I found those articles provided info of which I was unaware. Although the two tend to reinforce each other with considerable overlap of info, each had interesting unique tidbits.

[Marie (UK)]

I think both Hans and Rachel were simply going through the motions in their time in the hotel. I can't say I see why Rachel Left him . Far from being fascinated by the history of cricket I was bored to tears by the way the book was unfolding. and I can't say what relevance it had to the finding of Chuck' s body It seems only to be a wander through the life of Hans alone in New York and the difficulties being separated from Rachel led to.

I do think the author has defined the characters very well, I get the feeling that others here are identifying with Rachel whereas I see her as a petulant adult who has the good fortune to have enough money to do as she wants irrespective of how it affects others. I am not saying that Hans is any more likeable and agree that his one defining characteristic trail in this part of the book is a moroseness.

[Casceil]

Marie, I think you are right about Hans and Rachel "going through the motions" in the early part of the book. I think that's probably not an uncommon response to a life-altering disaster. About four years ago my family had a major house fire, and we had to move out to a rental place for six months. I think I was "going through the motions" the whole time--just figuring out what needed doing next and doing it. I remember there was a sort of numbness. I guess I assume that Hans and Rachel felt something like that.

As for what relevance cricket and the finding of Chuck's body had, I think figuring that out is an activity that consumes much of the book. I loved Chuck's cricket speech, when he calms the agitated players and explains to them that cricket is some kind of higher standard. When something isn't right, we say it isn't cricket. We don't say, it isn't baseball, or it isn't football, we say it isn't cricket.

I think community is a major theme in this book, though it may make more sense to discuss that in later threads. The cricket community Hans joins, in particular, seems to be very important to the story.

[Dianne]

Marie, I'm in the middle of the book and I think Hans and Rachel are both pretty unlikeable also. I share your views on Rachel. I think the cricket story is interesting and has much greater meaning than just a story about the game. It has to do with identity, culture, belonging, assimilation of other cultures in the US, fellowship, brotherhood. I think for Hans it almost becomes his family, his identity.

[Kirsten]

I have the audiobook of this and have just started listening. I am at the 12% mark. I am not sure what I think of it yet. I liked the first section at the cricket field. However, when it came to the bit with him and Rachel I found myself getting very tired with him.

I am hoping the book will improve. I have heard many good things about this book so I am hopeful.

[Casceil]

Kirsten, do you like the narrator reading this book?

[Kirsten]

I do like the narrator.

I would like to say something I mentioned in the general, nonspoiler thread.

I am having a hard time locating the plot. It seems more like a character study, a stream of consciousness thing. That doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it.

As to the likability of the characters, my first instinct is to dislike Rachel. But then I thought, "but I don't know anything about her". We are seeing all the characters through Hans' eyes and feelings. There is another book out there from Rachel's pov.

I suppose Hans is a little pathetic. But I sympathize with him. He is a fish out of water, a stranger. And at one of the most iconic periods in modern history. How does a non-American feel when America is attacked? When you can see Ground Zero from your apartment?

And then your wife leaves you ... to get some space ... and takes your child with you. That tears even more bits out of you. So I'm willing to give him more leeway.

It is interesting. The describing of the characters. The strange cricket umpire. His unwilling food critic friend. Coworkers trying to help. The hotel filled with weird people. Who goes around dressed as an angel? Really?