Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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The Black Moth
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The Black Moth Group Read June 2016 Chapters 1 -15
This will be my first read of this book. Looking forward to it!
This is my first read. I will listen to it as an audiobook. I'm really excited.
My copy has a Canadian price of$1.25 even though I bought it in Germany ... Same cover though! I read it so long ago that this will be like a first read. I only remember being confused by the plot. Let's see what happens this time.
This is my first read, and I'm reading the Kindle version. Enjoying the first few chapters so far!
I've read it a couple of times, it's not one I re-read very much. I will be listening to the audiobook :)
Many years ago I read in my weekly magazine The People's Friend about an author named Georgette Heyer. A week later I was rooting around in a local second hand bookshop and low and behold what did I find?!! The Black Moth. And so a love affair began. This is only the second reading for me since then. Actually I'm finding it a little slow but looking forward to the read. (Which I should be doing instead of wittering on here)!!!!
Meant to say I'm reading an old Pan books copy. The cover didn't show up here when I searched.
Quick question - I was a little foggy on the period in which this book takes place - Georgian England or earlier? The fashion tells me it certainly isn't the Regency!
I've read this a few times, though not as often as most of Georgette Heyer's books. I'm re-reading it on Kindle.It's Georgian, as we can tell from the discussion about the innkeeper Chadber and his political affiliations in the first chapter. It's set in 1751 according to this website: http://www.georgette-heyer.com/chron....
Thank you, I picked up clues here and there but I wanted to be sure.
Reading it for the first time, on my kindle. I am really enjoying the conversations between OHara and his wife.
Just a note - if you have read These Old Shades, you may wish to compare characters that were re-named and re-written from The Black Moth. Check out the These Old Shades Wiki here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/These_O...
Two things I noticed early in this book:1. There were people with lots of fancy clothing. When did clothing become affordable to the well-to-do? I thought it was a bit later than this.
2. The Devil has pale white hands (and again in These Old Shades. It seems odd that a male of the leisure class doesn't do "manly" sports that would take him outside without gloves. He doesn't seem effete in any other way.
Hi, Howard, a few thoughts regarding manly sports. —If this story is set in/around 1751, as speculated, racing curricles about the countryside would not yet be a thing because few turnpikes if any had been built, so very few roads would be raceable.
—Pheasants weren’t yet introduced to England, so shooting would have been a matter of stalking partridges (and grouse, in the north), not walking out in a group and flushing game to be shot in flight. Rabbits were also stalked, and hares mostly snared (and not by gentlemen, by their employees).
—Riding to hounds was not yet the way foxes were hunted; rather, gamekeepers would identify the dens, and then dogs and people would dig them up and the foxes would be summarily shot when they were exposed.
—Boxing might have been a thing among gentlemen, I’m not sure, but the real glamorization of the sport came later.
—Cockfighting was locally popular, but didn’t involve any activity on the gentleman’s part.
—Sword-fighting was more popular, but not sure that would have interfered with having pale, white hands.
So not a lot of the idle amusements we associate with Regency gentlemen had a deep history! And the whole “Corinthian” thing was a product of the Prince of Wales’s set, so it didn’t start before about the turn of the nineteenth century.
Abigail I have to bow to your superior knowledge!!!!!! Since joining GR I have learned so much. Keep the info coming.
GH's youth certainly shows through in this book. But lord there are flashes of the genius that is to come in her later books. Lady Lavinia is one of the shallowest, self centered, selfish creature created by an author. Surely she's based on someone GH knew. Otherwise she had a great understanding of human nature. On the other hand O Hara is a great character!! Love the interaction between him and his lady. I love the line ' O Hara had been carefully broken in-----.
From page 138-144 I love the descriptions of Jack trying to explain to Diana how he could never propose to her without mentioning him or her. Heart stirring stuff.And they say that the '70's' were the decade that fashion forgot!!! Reading about the preparations for the ball with the wigs and powder and men dressed in puce, makes me glad we live now. It all sounds revolting!
Aww, thanks, Teresa! It’s just because I’m working on a historical novel, so I spend all my time reading up on such details.
Oooooh be sure to let us know when it's ready for us to read Abigail. Just a thought! Am I the only one on this site who hasn't written a book?!
Teresa wrote: "Am I the only one on this site who hasn't written a book?!"No. :-)
I have two words for Lady Lavinia: Grow. Up. I am ready to reach into this book and slap her, and I've only just finished Chapter 7.
Don't know how on previous reads I missed this but there is "my poor lamp" on page 77. So some of the typos date back to the Pan editions.
Teresa wrote: "Oooooh be sure to let us know when it's ready for us to read Abigail. Just a thought! Am I the only one on this site who hasn't written a book?!"Heh! I wrote a regency when I was around 11. Not fit for publication. When I tried to write a romance as an adult I couldn't do dialogue.
Glad to know I'm not alone Carol! I too tried writing in my early years. Fairy and adventure stories. I grew up on Enid Blyton. Think I read nearly everything she wrote.I too picked up on the 'my poor lamp' thing.
And Eliza wouldn't it be marvelous if someone put Lavinia over their knee and smacked her! Her husband is a bit of a milk sop isn't he!!
Teresa wrote: "Glad to know I'm not alone Carol! I too tried writing in my early years. Fairy and adventure stories. I grew up on Enid Blyton. Think I read nearly everything she wrote.I too picked up on the 'my..."
I've never written a book either - although my degree was in journalism and I worked as a small-time reporter right after college, so I have had a few bylines in print, loooong ago!
Elza, I agree, Lavinia seemed unstable and annoying to the extreme - she must have been hell to live with!
Howard wrote: "Two things I noticed early in this book:1. There were people with lots of fancy clothing. When did clothing become affordable to the well-to-do? I thought it was a bit later than this.
2. The Dev..."
1,The higher up the social scale you were, the fancier your clothing was likely to be. The Georgian era was an age of very fancy clothing for the upper classes. But people generally owned far fewer clothes than they would nowadays, because of the cost. Clothes of less wealthy people would be updated by having new trimmings added etc. There was quite a market in second hand clothes as well.
2. Gentlemen went riding and hunting - deer were still the most popular animals to hunt early in the 18th century, by the late 18th century foxes and hares were more commonly hunted. Fishing was another popular field sport, for both men and women. Cricket was becoming very popular in the Georgian era, it was played by both men and women and by all classes. Tennis, golf, lawn bowling, were other outdoor games. Pushing ladies on swings seems to have been an activity indulged in by gentlemen, an article in The Spectator said "The lover who swings his lady is to tie her clothes very close together with his hat-band before she admits him to throw up her heels." (information from Daily Life in 18th Century England by Kirstin Olsen)
Louise wrote: "Howard wrote: "Two things I noticed early in this book:1. There were people with lots of fancy clothing. When did clothing become affordable to the well-to-do? I thought it was a bit later than th..."
Louise - I love it! We have my son's old tire swing in the backyard, shall I entice my husband by asking him to give me a swing? That is very interesting, and reminds of lovely, pastoral paintings I've seen of gallants pushing their lady loves on flower-draped swings...
And the second-hand clothing market certainly makes sense, I've read many historical mysteries from different periods from medieval to Victorian where they mention second-hand clothing sellers. And I think I've read where some of the poorest women in the London slums made a living unpicking seams from garments so they could be reused/resold?
Susan in NC wrote: "Louise wrote: "Howard wrote: "Two things I noticed early in this book:1. There were people with lots of fancy clothing. When did clothing become affordable to the well-to-do? I thought it was a bi..."
glad you liked the bit sbout the swing, i thought that was good. You should definitely suggest it to your husband! i have seen some of those lovely pictures too.
i remember reading about the women unpicking clothes - they still do similar things in countries like pakistan - i have seen pictures of women unravelling old sweaters for instance so that the yarn can be resold.
I've been avoiding reading these posts until I had got far enough into the book to have anything to contribute. And I have been reading and enjoying the book so far . I came on here to see what people are saying, only to realise I am reading Black Sheep and NOT the Black Moth!! Well I can't stop now but will try to fit the correct book into my June schedule too!
Poor Emma! But it's never time wasted to read a good Heyer. Just a warning: The Black Moth is very different.
Emma, "Black Sheep" is one of my favorites!
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Emma, "Black Sheep" is one of my favorites!"I am thoroughly enjoying it. Also looking forward to reading the Black Moth because it is going to be different. It's one of GH's earlier ones?
Emma wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Emma, "Black Sheep" is one of my favorites!"I am thoroughly enjoying it. Also looking forward to reading the Black Moth because it is ..."
Good choice, Emma, Black Sheep is fun!
Emma, "The Black Moth" is GHs very first novel. She wrote at the tender age of 19. Her father had it published when she was 19.
Emma wrote: "I've been avoiding reading these posts until I had got far enough into the book to have anything to contribute. And I have been reading and enjoying the book so far . I came on here to see what peo..."The Black Sheep is very enjoyable too Emma. It's one of my favourites. And as HJ says it IS very different.
Emma wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Emma, "Black Sheep" is one of my favorites!"I am thoroughly enjoying it. Also looking forward to reading the Black Moth because it is ..."
I think she might have written it when she was 17. It was to amuse her brother who was ill in bed.
Yup, when 17, published when 19.
Emma, if you're reading Black Sheep I think most Heyer fans would agree you're reading the better book. ;) But Black Moth is still an interesting book for various reasons.Elza, I'll hold Lavinia down while you slap some sense into her.
After six years, does anyone else think it's far past time for Richard to man up and clear his brother's name? That would learn his wife and in-laws a lesson!
Overall ... lots of drama and not a lot of the witty dialogue that I usually associate with Heyer's books. But I'm only in chapter 8.
Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "Emma, if you're reading Black Sheep I think most Heyer fans would agree you're reading the better book. ;) But Black Moth is still an interesting book for various reasons.Elza, I'll hold Lavinia ..."
Sounds like a plan - I'll gladly help hold Lavinia, I bet she'd kick and scratch, she seems like the type...it was my first read and I enjoyed it as a jolly romp, but she and Richard definitely tried my patience!
Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "After six years, does anyone else think it's far past time for Richard to man up and clear his brother's name? That would learn his wife and in-laws a lesson!"Usually, the longer you live with a lie that still matters, the harder it is to come clean.
Good point, Howard. The lie seems to multiply every time it is repeated or relied on.
The self-sacrificing on the one hand, and the selfishness on the other, is crazy-making.
Kim wrote: "The self-sacrificing on the one hand, and the selfishness on the other, is crazy-making."& that GH makes you believe it - that takes some skill!
Especially as young as she was when she wrote it, her talent shines through.
Howard wrote: "Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "After six years, does anyone else think it's far past time for Richard to man up and clear his brother's name? That would learn his wife and in-laws a lesson!"Usually,..."
And weak-willed characters don't grow stronger by letting the lie continue, either!
I am just starting to read The Black Moth. A bit late to the party... I have read it once but haven't re-read it so this will be my second read. Looking forward to it.
Cascades wrote: "I am just starting to read The Black Moth. A bit late to the party... I have read it once but haven't re-read it so this will be my second read. Looking forward to it."Looking forward to your comments, Cascades!
Just starting chapter 5. Initial impression - When I read it the last time I did not realize it was her first book. Now that I am reading with a fresh pair of eyes, it does lack some of the sophistication of her later works, but it is still amazing for a 17 year old author.
I'm really enjoying it. Has this ever been a film? I am imagining/ remembering that I have seen a film ( possibly black and white)...of this story
Don't think so Emma. We've been discussing on another thread which Heyer book we'd like to see made into a film. There was an attempt way back to do The Convenient Marrriage I think it was. You can view it on youtube.
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I've read it countless times, the last time about 4 or 5 years ago.
This (as we probably all know) was written when GH was 17. Her father loved it & arranged it's publication when GH was 19.
So - is it anyone's first read?
How many times have you read it?
What format are you reading it in?
Please everyone - use spoiler tags or post spoilers in the Spoilers thread. We don't want to spoil a first read for anyone. :)