Part I: Age of Shipwreck (1120-1154)

[Portia, Novice Mod]

Discuss Part I here.

[RJay]

The loss of the White Ship and William the Atheling was devastating to Henry I - but I'm still surprised that he opted for the crown to pass through Mathilda rather than Steven in an age where female rulers were non-existent. However, if he had done that, we wouldn't have had Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine, that most dynamic of duos. In Dan Jones' narrative, I was surprised there was no mention of John Longespee until the sections on John's rule.. Longespeee was the only son that truly stayed loyal to his H2 but Longespee doesn't appear until he assists John in defending against French encroachment. Anyone else notice this or feel it a bit odd?

[Joy]

Longespeee was the only son that truly stayed loyal to his H2

Bishop-Chancellor Geoffrey was with his father Henry II until his last breath.

[RJay]

Joy wrote: "Longespeee was the only son that truly stayed loyal to his H2

Bishop-Chancellor Geoffrey was with his father Henry II until his last breath."

Was unaware of that.

[Ashwise]

Interesting. I thought it was radical of Edward to make Matilda his heir and decree the crown pass to her when women were seen as property. it makes you wonder how things would have turned out if Stephen had seized power. I also feel like the White Ship disaster sowed the seeds of dysfunction in the Plantagenets since it caused the loss of an heir and choas

[happy]

The loss of the White Ship definitely set the who thing in motion!

Funny thing about Henry I, while he only had 1 legitimate son, he had a whole passel of illegitimate ones. I've read that he had more illegitimate offspring than any other King or Queen for that matter of England. I wonder what would have happened if one of the sons had been able to inherit?

[Portia, Novice Mod]

Ashwise wrote: "Interesting. I thought it was radical of Edward to make Matilda his heir and decree the crown pass to her when women were seen as property. it makes you wonder how things would have turned out if S..."

Welcome to the discussion, Ashwise! Glad to have your input.

[RJay]

happy wrote: "The loss of the White Ship definitely set the who thing in motion!

Funny thing about Henry I, while he only had 1 legitimate son, he had a whole passel of illegitimate ones. I've read that he had ..."

Interesting that in the MA, Henry I felt it better to have the crown pass to a female than to an illegitimate male. But wasn't William the Conqueror illegitimate?

[happy]

Yes he was - before Hastings he was known as William the Bastard

[RJay]

happy wrote: "Yes he was - before Hastings he was known as William the Bastard"

So, we have a son of a bastard preferring a female descendent than his own illegitimate son. How fascinating.

[Portia, Novice Mod]

'Tis, ain't it;-)

[RJay]

I found Mathilda's escape in the snowstorm quite dramatic. Would have made a great scene in a movie. Wearing all white, descending the walls in a blizzard, walking through the storm to escape. Awesome lady to have even attempted it. Something Eleanor would have done for sure.

And I'm glad that William Marshall wasn't hanged - Steven was kind-hearted. John would have done it without flinching.

[happy]

If you like Historical Fiction, Sharon Penman dramatizes her escape in

When Christ and His Saints Slept

[RJay]

Yes, thanks. I've read all of SKP's books. She got me hooked on the crazy P-family.