Strong Poison - SPOILER thread

[Nadine]

Yes Sayers' early Peter and Bunter was based on Jeeves and Wooster. And she described him as being a little like Fred Astaire

[Nadine]

I wasn't aware you coudl build up an immunity.. However I beleive that some have said that if NU was taking all htat much arsenic, he woudl have had medical problems...

[Lady Clementina]

Nadine wrote: "Yes Sayers' early Peter and Bunter was based on Jeeves and Wooster. And she described him as being a little like Fred Astaire"

One can see shades...

[Mark Pghfan]

Damaskcat: I assume you are listening to Ian Carmichael's narration of the unabridged book? I did that also this time, having read the actual book previously. I did enjoy it greatly and remember the "Jeeves" comment as well. And yes, there is a lot of humor in the book.

[Nadine]

Damaskcat wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I've read this several times, and probably won't re-read it now because although it has many elements I like, several of which have been mentioned here (Miss Climpson, Bunter with ..."
Yeah but was she likelky to? He may be able to help her when noone else can, and he does tell her he would take the case even if she didn't want to marry him...

[Everyman]

Nadine wrote: " I wasn't aware you coudl build up an immunity.. ."

Legend has it that Middle East potentates of past centuries used to build up an immunity to arsenic as a matter of routine because of the frequency of enemies wanting to bump them off.

[Susan]

I think I have come across that too, Everyman. I wonder if it had a detrimental effect on health?

[Nadine]

I seem to remember the Maybrick case where the husband took arsenic in small doses as a medicine and may have overdone it and killed himslef (accidentally) and then his wife was accused of poisoning him. I think that if NU had been takiing such a lot of arsenic on a regular basis, he too might have made himself ill...But a lot of Godlen Age killing methods are a bit far fetched and very "clever" (that being part of what was expected) but things that problaby woudl not work in RL.. Such as the killing method in Unnatural Death

[Damaskcat]

Pghfan wrote: "Damaskcat: I assume you are listening to Ian Carmichael's narration of the unabridged book? I did that also this time, having read the actual book previously. I did enjoy it greatly and remember th..."

I do have that version but I have been listening to the latest recording read by Jane McDowall. She has done all DLS's books in the last couple of years. I wasn't sure about her voice at first but I actually like it now having listened to all of them. She has also recorded some of the Ruth Galloway series.

[Mark Pghfan]

Really, a new set of Sayers narrated by another person? Sounds great. I don't think I've been able to find them here in the US, at least not yet.

[Deborah]

Everyman wrote: "Nadine wrote: " I wasn't aware you coudl build up an immunity.. ."

Legend has it that Middle East potentates of past centuries used to build up an immunity to arsenic as a matter of routine becaus..."

Some women took arsenic in the 19th century to obtain a very pale complexion which was highly valued

[Deborah]

I just finished this last evening as I haven't had much time to read. I loved her characters and writing style. I figured out the poison was in the omelette, but not the immunity thing. It still was a fun read.

[Nadine]

Deborah wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Nadine wrote: " I wasn't aware you coudl build up an immunity.. ."

Legend has it that Middle East potentates of past centuries used to build up an immunity to arsenic as a matter ..."
I thought that women rubbed arsenic paste onto thier skin.. Which is dangerous but not as bad as swallowing it.

[Judy]

I've just watched the first episode of the TV version and the sweet omelette looked horrible, like scrambled eggs with jam.

It belatedly struck me that I wasn't even sure what a sweet omelette is - I'd assumed it was the same as a pancake, but, from looking it up online, seems it is in fact an omelette with a sweet filling, as its name suggests! Has anyone tried one?

[Judy]

On the arsenic immunity, I recently read another mystery which also involved this plot element - I won't say which one to avoid spoilers! I assumed that it was copying Strong Poison, but Nadine, you've reminded me that it could also be drawing on the real-life Maybrick case.

[Nadine]

I did read somehing about DLS's refs to real-llife poisoning cases,and there is also Madeleine Smith who got off a charge of poisoning her lover with arsenic.

[Diane]

Judy wrote: "I've just watched the first episode of the TV version and the sweet omelette looked horrible, like scrambled eggs with jam.

It belatedly struck me that I wasn't even sure what a sweet omelette is..."

I was thinking that they were really crepes suzette which are very thin dessert pancakes. They are traditionally made table side and set aflame with brandy or something. I've had them but they are not something I would order or make for myself.

[Susan]

Sweet omelettes sound pretty horrible - eggs and jam? Hmmm, I guess tastes change though. Still, an omelette did seem a strange thing to prepare during dinner as a side dish...

[Judy]

Nadine wrote: "I did read somehing about DLS's refs to real-llife poisoning cases,and there is also Madeleine Smith who got off a charge of poisoning her lover with arsenic."

I recently saw a film based on that case, Dishonored Lady starring Hedy Lamarr, but had forgotten about the arsenic - there's also a David Lean film, Madeleine, which I keep meaning to see.

[Susan]

I keep meaning to read Did She Kill Him?: A Victorian Tale of Deception, Adultery and Arsenic , which is about the Maybrick case.

[Hilary (A Wytch's Book Review)]

Susan wrote: "Sweet omelettes sound pretty horrible - eggs and jam? Hmmm, I guess tastes change though. Still, an omelette did seem a strange thing to prepare during dinner as a side dish..."

and yet people eat fruit and custard, or fruit and meringue both of which are egg based, also sweet souflees (and I suspect the omelette in this case is possibly more of a souflee omelette)

[Deborah]

Hilary wrote: "Susan wrote: "Sweet omelettes sound pretty horrible - eggs and jam? Hmmm, I guess tastes change though. Still, an omelette did seem a strange thing to prepare during dinner as a side dish..."

and ..."

I believe sweet omelettes are omelettes with a sweet filling. They've long gone out of fashion. But as Hilary mentions we still eat other sweets that are egg based.

[HJ]

I've just finished re-reading Strong Poison. I can't even guess how often I've read it! That's the thing about books like this and those by Josephine Tey; the characters and the relationships are so good, as is the writing generally, that one can enjoy them even when one can remember who did it, and how.

Although I think I was suspicious of the cracked egg when I first read the book, I didn't know that one could build up an immunity to arsenic and so I didn't guess how Urquhart did it.

I too like the touches of humour in the book. As to Peter's falling in love with Harriet at first sight of her in the dock: a lot of people do believe in that, namely those to whom it has happened. An example is Mary Stewart; she and her husband fell in love at first sight and were happily married until his death. It is those of us to whom it has not happened who are sceptical!

I love the fact that he asked his mother to come and hold his hand because he'd found his one and only woman and she was on trial. It's great to have more of her apparently inconsequential ramblings which actually contain real nuggets hidden away!

I'm glad that Parker and Lady Mary have finally got together, although five years is a ridiculous length of time, I think.

The fact that Miss Climpson is on the jury is a coincidence; she's there because she lives nearby. There are very careful procedures to make sure that jury selection is random. If it had been a case which Lord Peter had investigated before the trial and he had identified the villain then, even if she herself or her agency hadn't been involved in the investigation, I suspect that she may have been obliged to ask to be excused from serving as a juror on that case.

I really like the Edward Petherbridge and Harriet Walter adaptations. I think they are the best portrayals of the characters. As with all adaptations, though, I try not to watch them too soon after reading the books (and vice versa) because there are always differences which can be annoying.

[Lady Clementina]

HJ wrote: "I've just finished re-reading Strong Poison. I can't even guess how often I've read it! That's the thing about books like this and those by Josephine Tey; the characters and the relationships are s..."

I love the Dowager's ramblings- I'd actually forgotten this so it was a pleasant surprise reading them.

[Susan]

Strong Poison has certainly been one of my favourite books so far - Miss Climpson, the Cattery and the Duchess are a big part of that.

[HJ]

Susan wrote: "Strong Poison has certainly been one of my favourite books so far - Miss Climpson, the Cattery and the Duchess are a big part of that."

I love Miss Climpson's letter-writing style!

[Mark Pghfan]

Regarding the jam omelette, I just thought it was some English idea of a dessert. I saw the TV version, and it certainly did look odd.

[HJ]

Pghfan wrote: "Regarding the jam omelette, I just thought it was some English idea of a dessert. I saw the TV version, and it certainly did look odd."

Not a current English dessert. Must have been something they liked in the 1920s and 30s.

[Karlyne]

Strawberry jam and cheddar cheese omelets are among my favorites, but we tend to eat them at breakfast - probably because I don't want to have to cook and clean up a dessert after clearing away dinner. Ah, the freedom a servant would bring... (haha!)

[Damaskcat]

I used to have a cookery book in which there were instructions for making a sweet omelette. It's just an ordinary omelette with a sweet filling. It is out of fashion but I did make one for myself out of curiosity and they are nice if you like omelettes but to me it is a lot of work when you've already eaten the main course and something you would only do for a special occasion. In the book the omelette was divided between the two men so it would have been quite small.

[Nadine]

I have read in DLS's letters that she drank BOvril with milk, that sounds yucky to me.. and so does a sweet omellette.. but i suppose it was what they ate at the time

[Susan]

I suppose we have to remember that most people in London were not living in huge houses with servants, but in boarding houses, probably with one gas ring. So heating Bovril or cooking omelettes was probably all a lot of people could manage to cook. A lot of books written at this time, not just crime novels, have that kind of image of heating milk or water over a fire or on a little stove.

Singled Out: How Two Million Women Survived Without Men After the First World War presents an excellent portrait of how so many of those women lived between the wars. It was probably how DLS lived, as she gave LP his lovely cars, limited editions and cosy fires...

[Damaskcat]

Nadine wrote: "I have read in DLS's letters that she drank BOvril with milk, that sounds yucky to me.. and so does a sweet omellette.. but i suppose it was what they ate at the time"

Likes and dislikes in food do change more than we think from one era to another.

One of my favourite meals as a child was corned beef hash but lots of people now hate the thought of that. I still love it - real comfort food.

[Damaskcat]

Susan wrote: "I suppose we have to remember that most people in London were not living in huge houses with servants, but in boarding houses, probably with one gas ring. So heating Bovril or cooking omelettes was..."

I think omelettes and things like sardines on toast - another popular meal from the 1920s have gone out of fashion but they're both cheap, filling and easy to cook with limited facilities. I seem to remember that Daisy Dalrymple used to live on sardines before she married :-)

[Susan]

I am sure people ate healthier, if blander, food back then.

[Damaskcat]

Susan wrote: "I am sure people ate healthier, if blander, food back then."

I'm sure people ate healthier food then even though there definitely wasn't as much variety then - just as there wasn't in the 50s and 60s when I was growing up.

[Susan]

It is true. You need to cook from scratch - it takes longer, but it is healthier and tastes better.

[Damaskcat]

Susan wrote: "It is true. You need to cook from scratch - it takes longer, but it is healthier and tastes better."

I agree :-)

[Lady Clementina]

Susan wrote: "It is true. You need to cook from scratch - it takes longer, but it is healthier and tastes better."

Me too- I prefer my meals freshly cooked as well- not to deny that packaged ones can be convenient sometimes.

[Nadine]

But Bovril and Milk? Yeuch? I make it with hot water

[Judy]

Although I was pleased to see Marjorie Phelps turn up again in this book, I felt a pang for her when Wimsey involves her in the investigations without stopping to think about her feelings for him - and then there is a brief line which reveals that she is in love with him.

I think he has just said "I am right and you are right and everyone is quite all right" or something like that, celebrating some good news about Harriet - and it says Marjorie feels as if her insides have been through a wringer.

A bit odd that Peter is insensitive to her here, since in general he seems to be so sensitive. But, anyway, I suppose it's all part of making him into more of a romantic figure.

[Nadine]

It does say that Peter knew that there was a bit of a delicate situation because she had offered him an affair soeme time ago, but in the short time he had, he couldn't worry too much about gentlemanly scruples.
But all the same, she had just offered him a friendly relationship, she hadn't revealed any deep feelings, and it was ages ago, so I dont think that Peter woudl have realised if she was in love with him. and I wonder if this is part of DLS seeing Peter as a more and more wonderful superhero figure in that all the ladies love him! Was Marj meant to be in love in Bellona Club? Or was she just attracted and fond of him, and would have gotten over it after a while?

[Susan]

Perhaps Peter simply doesn't realise how attractive he is to the ladies? He is often self denigrating about his looks and yet, as we see, more than one woman are attracted to him and presumably not just because of his title/wealth. I thought it was also quite normal that Bunter was a bit anxious about things changing in this book.

[Nadine]

I think it was more of a change in DLS's portrayal of Peter that he became a bit more "adored" by her and she saw all the women who meet him going mad for him. I woudl say that earlier Marj's offering him a relationship was meant to be a light affectionate thing and not a deep love thing. But as she began to write Harriet inot the novels Peter starts to become super attractive and have more and more women falling for him. in the early books he's meant to be attracitve, well off enough to be well liked in society, and popular but not so gorgeous that so many women wnat to sleep with him or fall in love with him..

[Judy]

Yes, I think he definitely starts to become portrayed as more attractive - I have a feeling those references to his looks being foolish etc fall off from this book onwards.

[Judy]

Nadine, that's an interesting point about Marjorie's feelings changing between the two books - I think she makes it sound lighthearted in the earlier book, but maybe it's left open what her own feelings are. I find her an interesting character even though she doesn't get very much time.

[Damaskcat]

Judy wrote: "Although I was pleased to see Marjorie Phelps turn up again in this book, I felt a pang for her when Wimsey involves her in the investigations without stopping to think about her feelings for him -..."

'I am right etc ' is a quotation from Gilbert and Sullivan's The Mikado.

[Judy]

Thanks Damaskcat - I knew it was a quote, but wasn't sure where from!

[Damaskcat]

Judy wrote: "Thanks Damaskcat - I knew it was a quote, but wasn't sure where from!"

You're welcome :-)

[Mark Pghfan]

I agree; I always thought Peter was really not particularly considerate of Marjorie. Especially here, when he must have known he used her in Bellona and now is fine doing it again.