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Questions about DIY publishing (newbie)
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message 51:
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Li
(new)
May 29, 2017 01:19PM
We have a misunderstanding here. I am not recommending anything. Merely saying I have a lot experience with both traditional publishers and "self publishing." Each has advantages and disadvantages.
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Li wrote: "I have used Iuniverse and Createspace and a bunch of traditional publishersCreate Space is far and away the best" ---- of the non traditional publishers and the service is often better than what the traditional folks offer up as well
I have used Create Space for two sci-fi/fantasy novels, with great success. I've won three awards, so I think I can say the books have met the "professionally produced" standard.
Easy to use, You will either need to learn to format or hire a formatter (again, easy), and get good cover art (I use Fiverr for that), and a good editor (I was a professional editor, so I do my own), and good beta readers. Yes, this is a lot of footwork, but then you have control over your product from start to finish. and by using POD, you can keep from having crates of books in your basement or garage--and if you find errors, you can change both the e-book and the paperback easily. You buy what you need when you need them.
Unlike other Indie authors, I have a very high percentage of paperback to e-book sales, about 1 to 5. Almost all my paperback sales have come from Amazon extended marketing services. A lot of my books have found their way into libraries. I tend to use my personal paperback copies as marketing tools, "selling" them at my cost. I find it leads to other sales from folks who tell their friends about the books.
The comment about cream colored pages is one I would definitely advise for paperbacks. You want a professional looking book, and this helps.
Easy to use, You will either need to learn to format or hire a formatter (again, easy), and get good cover art (I use Fiverr for that), and a good editor (I was a professional editor, so I do my own), and good beta readers. Yes, this is a lot of footwork, but then you have control over your product from start to finish. and by using POD, you can keep from having crates of books in your basement or garage--and if you find errors, you can change both the e-book and the paperback easily. You buy what you need when you need them.
Unlike other Indie authors, I have a very high percentage of paperback to e-book sales, about 1 to 5. Almost all my paperback sales have come from Amazon extended marketing services. A lot of my books have found their way into libraries. I tend to use my personal paperback copies as marketing tools, "selling" them at my cost. I find it leads to other sales from folks who tell their friends about the books.
The comment about cream colored pages is one I would definitely advise for paperbacks. You want a professional looking book, and this helps.
A.W. wrote: ".... iUniverse is a vanity press NOT a trad publisher. CS is a POD service, again NOT a trad publisher. Do you..."I am not sure how we sort these things out. Someone I know had his first book published by a vanity press. He sent me a copy and demanded $35. That was his marketing plan. He switched to Amazon for subsequent books.
I used BookBaby for my first novel. I am not sure how that is different from a Vanity Press operation except that it seems to be less expensive.
I am working with another company this time. I am still paying to get the book edited, to get the cover designed, to get the book designed and published.
There are two problems: I am not confident that a traditional publisher would publish my novel and I am not patient enough to find out.
I am not sure that I understand the difference between indie publishing and vanity publishing.
get good cover art (I use Fiverr for that), Thanks for the suggestion, Charles.
"Vanity press" is a pejorative term that implies the author was sufficiently vain to have a book that would not otherwise have been published, published at his or her own expense.
"Indie" publishing is a judgment neutral term. It can indeed, include "vanity" books, but also some excellent works.
I review Indie books professionally--have for four years--and I can state unequivocally, that I have seen some outstanding work in that genre. And some drivel. (But I can also say that about traditional publishing.
"Indie" publishing is a judgment neutral term. It can indeed, include "vanity" books, but also some excellent works.
I review Indie books professionally--have for four years--and I can state unequivocally, that I have seen some outstanding work in that genre. And some drivel. (But I can also say that about traditional publishing.
Thanks, Charles. I think the sad thing about my friend's experience with Vanity Press is the number of copies he bought and stored in his basement. Indie publishing is a calculated risk that sometimes pays off. In any case, authors have a lot of responsibility beyond just writing. We have to be responsible for how the manuscript is edited; how the book is crafted and for the marketing.I gather from the comments on this thread that I am about the only one who is surprised by that.
Goodreads is a great place for me because misery loves company.
The term "vanity press" is just too funny. I've spent over 20 years in Music and if making a record on your own, outside of a major label, makes you a "vanity artist," that's plain silly - there are artists who used to be signed to major labels, outside of their re-recording restriction now, who self-release amazing music, so why would a book writer be that much different? Of course, there are 'indie' artists who aren't so good and others that are awesome and I think the same of indie writers - some of them seem to just add words to increase word count and others truly tell an incredible story and have it edited professionally as if it were to be released by Harper Collins. I liked the idea of self-publishing an eBook. I don't have the time or inclination to do the marketing I'd like to, but I have a feeling word-of-mouth will get it around eventually anyway, and with any Irish luck it will be just in time for the paperback to come out. :-)
I believe "vanity press" was a term coined in the 1990s. If an author tried the traditional route and failed to secure a literary agent and a publishing deal, then their only other options was to pay vanity presses a large amount of money for a limited print runs. Those books often then sat in the author's garage and were occasionally sold at car boot sales. It was a vanity endeavour as it stoked the author's ego to hold a copy of their book but it certainly wasn't a commercially viable activity.Today a better word for such presses might be "scam" since they take large amounts of money from naive authors and deliver a substandard product for an inflated price. Such presses (like iUniverse, Xlibris, AuthorHouse, AmericaStar) have no interest in selling books, they make money by selling services to authors.
Indie publishing, or independent publishing, means the author takes on the role of publisher. You find, engage and pay the professionals you require to produce a polished product. Such as cover artists, editors, proof readers and formatters. The author then uploads the ebook to retailers (like Amazon, iBooks, B&N) and keeps the entirety of royalties earned. The author/publisher has full responsibility and reaps the full rewards.
Trad publishing means querying agents, if/when you receive an offer of representation the agent then shops the manuscript to acquisitions editors at big publishers (like HarperCollins, Simon&Shuster, Random House, Penguin, DisneyHyperior and their imprints). Most large legitimate publishers are closed to unsolicited submissions, meaning they can only be approached via a literary agent.
There are smaller publishers who take unsolicited submissions but that's a whole 'nother discussion about whether they can offer anything you can't do yourself.
Meghan wrote: "The term "vanity press" is just too funny. I've spent over 20 years in Music and if making a record on your own, outside of a major label, makes you a "vanity artist," that's plain silly - there ar..."But today we have UTube which has given us artists like Justin Bieber. There are others. I don't follow music or videos or other multi-media ventures. Some of them are good. Most of them can't cut it but they can have fun and maybe get a few fans.
A.W. makes a really good point. Vanity printers are there more for the vanity of the intended author, usually gouging them for money they could save doing it themselves or contracting out to others for less price.
I appreciate your comments, but please note that there are authors who are actively choosing to not go the traditional publisher route for valid reasons and I think "vanity press" is a bit harsh of a term. In music, artists who go a DIY/indie route certainly have an uphill climb marketing-wise and I believe that is true of authors as well, but there are other income factors (for instance, authors who release a book to promote a business, get more press, or gain public speaking engagements or consulting opportunities). Many authors are not limiting themselves to surviving on book sales. Likewise, recording artists almost always make more money on touring and merchandise.With that said, a traditional publisher, if they take an interest and put marketing behind the title, would definitely elevate an author's profile and do a lot more than an individual author can likely do on their own. Still, it's great that services are out there where a new author can self-release a book without a traditional publisher and catch the attention of traditional publishers (and same with new music artists catching the interest of major record labels). Everyone watches BookScan and SoundScan respectively.
Personally, my book, Always Face the Hounds: The Negotiation for Osama bin Laden, was not pitched to any publisher and I'm not looking for attention for myself, or any business opportunities (I do not work in politics). At a friend's insistence to document the story and make it public record, I decided the easiest way for me to do that was to write an eBook and release it so it's accessible to anyone and everyone who might be interested in reading it. It's not written for major media and I wouldn't expect them to touch it. It's written for citizens and it will spread via word-of-mouth, one person at a time. And when I pass away from lupus, the story will still be there so I don't have to tell it myself anymore.
Frankly I don't see this as anything other than personal choice. This is the 21st century. I have published lots of books --- non fiction -- with very prestigious publishers but while there is a certain amount of extra prestige there I am not all that impressed with any of them.. and there are quite a number of them and when it comes to promotion that is especially true And of course I lose a lot of control over the final product. With my fictional works I never bothered with traditional publishers--= have enormously greater flexibilty and as for promotion.. as far as I can tell the author has to do most of it regardless of who publishes a book. Except, and this is important I have more control over promotion decisions with my Amazon Create Space work than with my regular publishers. An obvious example is setting a sale price and that sort of thing.Steven Leibo or
Li Bo
Meghan wrote: "...that there are authors who are actively choosing to not go the traditional publisher route for valid reasons and I think "vanity press" is a bit harsh..."You are confusing two things and failing to see that there is a huge difference between self publishing and vanity presses. They are not the same.
Self publishing is where an author also wears the publisher hat and does everything themselves - hence the self in self publishing. The author/publisher finds/contracts/pays editors, proof readers, cover artist and formatters. For example, my novels are self published, I am not with a traditional publisher (although I was originally).
Vanity presses are businesses who scam naive writers out of thousands of dollars by selling them expensive "publishing packages" that usually result in a sub standard product with a slim to zero chance of ever selling. Examples of vanity presses are iUniverse, AuthorHouse, Xlibris, AmericaStar - and there's loads more. Even worse is when authors pay large amounts of money to a vanity press and then claim to be "traditionally published" but again, they have no understanding of the industry or the difference between various options.
Put simply vanity presses are NOT self publishing nor are they traditional publishers. I'm not sure how to make that clearer to you?
A. W., I still think we'll need to agree to disagree.
Self-publishing is self-publishing even if it's not 100% DIY. I didn't design my book cover (although I was a bit fussy about it), nor did I personally have the time to convert it to eBook formats, nor did I edit it or have one of my friends do it (it was done by a professional) and with any Irish luck I won't have to babysit every distribution channel personally either.
There is room for a middle guy for those of us who want a self-publishing experience that isn't so DIY. Some people have more time on their hands than others to get everything done themselves.
Speaking of time, that's the biggest reason why I decided to self-publish. In a year, when a traditional publisher might get it out, it would be out of date. It's current right now.
I think the biggest struggle is marketing. I tried Facebook ads but while I had some engagement, it didn't translate to a ton of book sales. I also didn't spend much ($100). I tried StoryCartel and NoiseTrade for reviews but neither seem to work.
People I don't know have read it and one woman posted an Amazon review and two others posted on Facebook about the book and they all seemed to love it so that made me feel good and it was my feeling from the start that this book would best get around via word-of-mouth. I'm certain major media won't touch it although I've been invited to do a couple of radio shows on smaller stations.
I know authors who are traditionally published who are tasked with doing a ton of the marketing themselves as well. So, it does seem to make sense to self-publish.
In any case, I think Steven made some great points in his post.
Very best,
Meg
Seems to me the core challenge after producing the best book we can is promotion. In my case I am only interested in readers not earnings and can afford to spend on advertising and even within that advantageous position have not found an obvious way to encourage sales -- not with my create space works of fiction nor my non fiction books done with traditional publishers. steven leibo
Li Bo
I see it as there being the "traditional " self published way where you do it all yourself. Then there's the "assisted" which is where you do the writing and get reputable people to help with the formatting, editing and such at a package deal. Then there's vanity, which is where they completely take advantage of you, charging crazy prices that anyone who doesn't know better will pay when they could go with the "assisted" version and pay less.
I have used Lulu for PoD up until most recent when I added paperback via KDP - not CreateSpace - to my eBook. I now concentrate on Kindle only - any hard copies are few and far between and mostly to allow me to gift to friends and family that do not have Kndle. Two of my books (a compliation of three other books and a shorter novelette) have no physical version.Whatever money you put into your book from editing, formatting, cover design. etc. it is unlikely you will see a return unless you are one of the lucky few.
I appreciate other authors especially technical and non-fiction where eBooks are not as viable. A coffee table format for photography landscapes is always going to be hard on a Kindle.
Without arguing for or against using one form of publication or another I am currently promoting a non fiction text book written as Leibo and a novel written as Li Bo. With Amazon Create Space I have real time sales figures to use as a measure of what is working promotion wise. With the text from a huge major publisher there are no real time sales figures available to use to adjust my promotion efforts.
Is it worthwhile to publish an action/political adventure book and market it on more platforms than Kindle--or do the promotional tools offered by Kindle outweigh whatever additional reach a writer gets by going beyond Amazon?
Barry wrote: "Is it worthwhile to publish an action/political adventure book and market it on more platforms than Kindle--or do the promotional tools offered by Kindle outweigh whatever additional reach a writer..."I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but I've found that if you've already produced a good ebook for Kindle (.azw or .mobi), then it takes a small investment of time but no money is required to get it out there as an .epub on Barnes & Noble too, through their Nook Press.
I looked into various ways of producing a good .epub, but ultimately settled on this:
-download the free edition of Calibre (ebook library software)
-add your kindle book to the library
-use Calibre's "convert book" utility to produce an .epub, and use the settings that suit you (for example, you could use "preserve cover aspect ratio" in "epub output" to prevent the cover image from being stretched and distorted when displayed.)
-create a Barnes & Noble or Nook Press account
-upload your .epub
-use their editing utility to clean it up a little (my converted book, for some reason, inserted two unwanted chapter breaks, but I could easily correct this online through Nook Press's what-you-see-is-what-you-get editor.)
There's a learning curve to it, just tinkering around and seeing what works, but it's not that hard and it costs no cash. And I figure there ought to be an alternative format out there for all the .epub readers who don' t use kindle.
Ah, yeah, but there's one point I left out. I didn't enroll my book in "KDP Select" through Kindle Direct Publishing. I'm not sure of the relative advantages of that. But the KDP Select program requires you to distribute the ebook exclusively through Amazon, so if you go that route then that's that. If I understand correctly, you can change your mind later, so you can wait to enroll in KDP Select later if things don't work out through alternative venues, or you can use KDP Select for a while and then unenroll if you find a need to distribute .epubs through another distribution channel.
For a counterpoint, here's an article about whether Amazon exclusivity is right for you: https://janefriedman.com/amazon-exclu...
I would agree that for my previous novel I found KDP very good, particularly when I hit high numbers, it started generating its own very valuable Amazon publicity for the book...
I've found Jane Friedman's site to be very helpful as well. I e-mailed her to thank her for taking the time to put great information online for all of us and she kindly even took the time to respond. My first book was released today to the major online eBook stores and I'm learning as I go.
And... hmmm. After trying to present two sides, I've been kicking around the question of KDP select in my own mind, and I'm thinking now that I probably ought to go that way for the first 90 days at least. While it isn't too difficult to get set up to distribute an .epub with Nook Press, and I've gone through the steps without going all the way to "publish," I'm not sure that I want to divide my attention and potential readership too much. I think maybe having a way to reach Kindle Unlimited customers could be more valuable to me than .epub NOOK users for a book that's starting out as an unknown without anything to drive NOOK readers to seek out my book in the first place. And using KDP Select for a few cheap deals or freebies might turn out more valuable for marketing.Hmmm...
I think Kindle Select is great, but it can also be pointless if not utilized in full. So imo if you are not going to do anything except enroll your book in Select and expect to see automatic income from KU (which was my belief when I first published), then you will probably be disappointed. However if you use the promotion perks (Kindle Countdowns and Free Promotions) and regularly advertise the fact that your books are on KU, you might see some nice results with Select. Depending on which stat you read, Kindle/Amazon has 60-85% of the ebook market. Most authors I know who have wide distribution see little if any activity from the other markets. But a few authors (usually nonfic) have better luck with wide distribution so it might help to seek them out and ask how they are doing it.
My own books are in Kindle Select. Royalties-wise, I get 2/3 of my income from ebook sales on Kindle and 1/3 from Kindle Unlimited page reads. I use the free promotion days every enrollment period and I advertise the socks off my promotions. I also tweet and post to Facebook with the hashtag #KindleUnlimited. This brings in a nice number of new readers every day. When I wasn't doing these things, I had virtually no Kindle Unlimited activity.
One perk of Select is that it's easy to make your book temporarily free (you are allowed 5 free days per 90 days). If you are not in Select, making your book free on Kindle is a huge pain in the neck.
So if you are on the fence about it, you might want to try Select first and wide later, but not the other way around. The reason for this is that it takes a while for your books to be removed from wide distribution if you decide you want to go Kindle exclusive after the fact. You will have to wait for your books to be off all other sales channels before you can enroll in Select. It can be kind of a hassle. Another good thing to know is that if you do enroll in Kindle Select, the default is set up to auto renew your enrollment when your 90 days are up. So if you only want to go 90 days then stop, you need to uncheck the auto renew box from your KDP dashboard so that you can have freedom to set your book up with other sales channels at the end of your enrollment. Otherwise you will be stuck for another 90 days. Hope this helps :).
Meghan wrote: "I've found Jane Friedman's site to be very helpful as well. I e-mailed her to thank her for taking the time to put great information online for all of us and she kindly even took the time to respon..."Congratulations on your debut!
@Marie Silk: Yes, that's helpful.Meanwhile: "...I use the free promotion days every enrollment period and I advertise the socks off my promotions..."
How do you advertise promotions? Do you mean you pay to serve ads here on Goodreads that explicitly say "promotional price" or "free on Amazon on June 97th, 3016"? Does Amazon have other tools for publicizing short-term promotions. Or... I've heard of something called Bookbub, are you talking about promoting there?
Paul wrote: "How do you advertise promotions? Do you mean..."
Bookbub is the best promotional site out there and I was fortunate to get an ad with them once (after applying every month for 7 months). But yes, promotional newsletters that run similar to Bookbub are the kind of advertising sites I use. When I don't advertise the promotion with these sites, I only get a handful of downloads which doesn't do much for rank or sales. With advertising, I can usually get hundreds to a couple thousand downloads. You can have a look at this thread to find out more about the ebook marketing sites available and results that authors have had with them: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Meghan wrote: "Thanks so very much, Gina!":D
Question for our DIY self-publishing experts here: by any chance, is there an online media list for authors? Or wishful thinking, is there some kind soul who has made a list of radio shows and podcasts who talk about non-fiction books, and bloggers, and editors at newspapers and magazines who cover non-fiction books? I can find the obvious on my own (LA Times, NY Times, etc) but I'd love to invite a few more reviewers for their thoughts and comments. Many thanks!
Can someone explain about book bub. Did not understand the reference to applying for seven monthsThank You
steven leibo
li bo
can someone explain about book bub. did not understand the reference about applying for seven months.
^I was just looking into it, and it appears that book bub is a promotional tool that one pays for if one's book is featured, but it is selective. You don't just place an ad with them. You submit a book to be featured, and they choose about 10% of the applications to feature those that would most likely appeal to the readers they serve, and they avoid a glut of too many books to promote each month. I guess readers and the featured writers like some degree of exclusivity, implying that readers will be served the books that best suit their tastes.
I utilized the services of Xlibris to facilitate my two novels transforming from manuscript form into paperback, hardcover, and E-book formats. And was very pleased with the results; sturdily built, attractive physical copies, glossy cover, nice clear cover picture, etc. I had complete control over every single facet of each novel's design, right down to the font size on the spine, and as Charles and others mentioned, cream colored paper as the backdrop for whatever font I chose (he's right, the cream color does make it look very nice). And I chose the POD route for the paperback & hardcovers.I will say, however, that I did my own proofreading and editing the first several rounds, then turned over my manuscript to two friends of mine who are even more OCD than I am regarding punctuation, spelling, and grammar. Then and only then did I submit the manuscripts for Xlibris to get them into production, and I let them deal with physically building the finished product(s) for my review and approval.
I have also opted to NOT pay for their marketing services. I am an accountant by day and once I put the pencil to it I realized I could accomplish roughly the same thing they offered me at over half the cost just by doing it on my own, with no less chance of success than they would have had.
Are there cheaper means than Xlibris to get your manuscript made into books and e-books? From what I've heard and read through these forum discussions, probably. My personal experience with them has been a very positive one, and it's been worth it to me not to have to take on locating/screening/hiring all the folks needed in the production process on my own to get this done.
I looked at it this way - I could probably figure out how to change out the transmission in my car, but the time and stress it would cost me to learn how to do that just isn't worth it at this point in my journey. So I paid a mechanic's shop to change it out for me. Same approach here, at least until I get more knowledge under my belt.
Just my story of how I got to this point :) Down the road, as I get more fluent in and comfortable with all the facets of full-on self-publication, I may take a different tack.
