THE DISCUSSION IS OPEN - WEEK EIGHT - PRESIDENTIAL SERIES: UNREASONABLE MEN - May 30th - June 5th - Chapter Eight - The Insurgency - (pages 175 - 202) - No Spoilers, please

[Lorna, Assisting Moderator (T) - SCOTUS - Civil Rights]

I agree that this was an interesting chapter on the insurgency. I was struck with the struggle Taft had in trying to balance the law with the rogue methods that had been employed by Roosevelt. Although Taft and his newly appointed Secretary of the Interior Ballinger felt they had no choice but to reverse some of Roosevelt's illegal land transfers, it was interesting to see how Pinchot began to reframe the issue of conservation as a moral issue and "embedded it in the great wave of reform that was sweeping out of the west." I felt that Taft had no choice but to fire Pinchot for insubordination but he appears conflicted. Ultimately it was Brandeis who discovered the fallacy of Taft's denial and the coverup of the administration in the Ballinger matter citing the lying. ". . . the refusal to speak the truth is the history of many a downfall." And that seems to be repeated over and over in our history.

[Tomi]

Vincent wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Bryan wrote: "It is an odd promise, because it backs you into a corner as Taft realized. I'm not sure why he did it. Perhaps to keep the peace with TR? Perhaps Taft looked up to TR ..."

I think you nailed it when you said Taft wanted to be president, but didn't want to do the president's job! That probably applies to a lot of people - nice to have the power and the prestige, to have people defer to you because of your position. You think you can do some good in the areas you choose, but suddenly you realize there's a lot more to being the president than you thought. And you didn't sign on for that! He wanted to reform tariffs but then discovered that he also had to deal with land issues, for example. Makes me feel sorry for Taft - such good intentions but he just couldn't seem to do the right thing.

[Tomi]

I would imagine that playing tennis with TR would be similar to juggling atomic bombs...

[Vincent]

Pamela wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

Hard comparison and maybe needs perspective compared to an age of 24 hour cable stations and TV and instant communications and basically a 40 hour work week.
Very different the opportunities to stay hidden then.
The big problem we have now is the educational level of the public as I see it.

[Vincent]

Jill wrote: "Taft had promised TR that he would make no decisions without considering "what his predecessor would have done under the same circumstances" (pg. 181). Did he break that promise? Although TR was on..."

interesting - like Truman and MacArthur.

Obama failed to do that with McCrystal who should have been dumped - instead he got a promotion to enhance his retirement pay.

[Glynn]

Like Helga, I am most familiar with TR's conservation efforts so the first part of this chapter was a delight for me. I also really had fun reading how George Morris was able to beat Uncle Joe at his own game by introducing a change to the rules using the reason of constitutional priviledge (pg 185 and following.)

[Mary Ellen]

Great chapter. As I finish each one I think, "that was the best!" and then I am swept away by the next...

Taft seems to have had more a personally cautious personality that a politically conservative one. He was most concerned with not sticking his neck out and learned very soon that he couldn't do this. Then in trying to protect himself, he joined the "wrong" side, and seemed to get increasingly entrenched in their positions.