What We Talk About When We Talk About Love
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What We Talk About When We Talk About Love - reading Maya & Sofia - 28th April 2016
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I have that imagine of him and his needle stuck in my mind.
Good morning and Happy Easter MayaSo much water so close to home - another one from Shortcuts (view spoiler)
Sorry I'm so late for your Good Morning. And thanks.Starting to read now :)
Maya wrote: "Sorry I'm so late for your Good Morning. And thanks.Starting to read now :)"
I'm spacing them out, otherwise i get a big dose of sadness.
So much water so close to home This one was really good imo. In the movie I've only watched the scene when the fishermen find the body and decide to tie it to a tree but I had not seen the aftermath.
I think Claire is the most interesting character here. She feels close to the murdered girl and I think this is because she feels like she has lost her identity in the marriage with Stuart. She doubts him, I think even after the funeral she still believed he might have been the murderer and although he had rough and cold attitude I don't think he did. Maybe Claire just feels like she doesn't know him anymore and this is the reason for her doubts.
re your spoiler - I didn't think anything happen between her and that man on the road. I think she was just paranoid.
I think something like what happened, seeing her husband threating the murdered girl so callously is eye opening. It's like you do not really now the person you are living with, whilst at the same time you live with them. Maybe the sex was trying to get to know again, or capture the link, or just basic need.
A Serious Talk (view spoiler)I find the writing very good. It's what the pictures show that make me sad.
Sofia wrote: "I think something like what happened, seeing her husband threating the murdered girl so callously is eye opening. It's like you do not really now the person you are living with, whilst at the same ..."yes, I think that incident was eye opening for Claire too.
I don't know, I think the ending was very sinister and I didn't see the sex as either of them looking for connection. I think at this point she still believed Stuart was involved in the murder of the girl and possibly he and his friends raped her. So I saw it as Claire continuing to play the role of that girl, a victim to her husband.
Sofia wrote: "The Third thing that killed my father Off [spoilers removed]"Yeah, the fish was the only thing that made Dummy feel not so isolated. Everyone was against him but when the nature took a hit too ...
I'm not sure what exactly Del felt guilty for. For telling Dummy about the fish in the first place thus changing his life or that he didn't do anything to help Dummy? I mean, when Del told Jack that the river will flood Dummy's pond he surely didn't think of doing anything.
or for insisting that they fish there, or for not keeping contact with him, or just the sadness of it all.Re - Stuart and Claire
I think having watched this before I read it, makes me unable to see it like you did, the murder connection. And at the funeral the old woman did tell Claire that they had captured the killer. I keep thinking that they kept the girl in the water whilst they enjoyed themselves like we keep food in the freezer, ready for when we have time for it.
Sofia wrote: "A Serious Talk [spoilers removed]I find the writing very good. It's what the pictures show that make me sad."
agree with everything in your comment.
when Burt took the pies and said "one for every 10 of her lies" he tricked me to believe that the marriage has fallen apart because of her. But then things took a turn.
That one was powerful.
I kind of like the stories we are reading today better. I mean, they are still disturbing but the problems of these characters seem to be more relatable.
I think the first stories where more the 'results of' the aftermaths. These ones are the stories where things happen, the others are how people end up after. Both sad hmm.
Sofia wrote: "I think the first stories where more the 'results of' the aftermaths. These ones are the stories where things happen, the others are how people end up after. Both sad hmm."I think it's more than sad. All these characters have hit bottom in one way or another/are at a crossroad in their life, and Carver draws us the picture of their inner life at these moments. We are instinctively trying to empathize but he's so straightforward that the aftertaste of these stories is only uneasiness for me, a feeling that something is wrong but at the same time I don't really care that much because the author himself doesn't show any compassion.
It will be a huge contrast when we read Haslett next.
Oh yes we can empathise there. I think you are right, it's difficult for us to connect becayse Carver looks at peopke like he is looking at insects to examine.
The Calm. I liked the last bit when the barber passes his hands through his hair. I don't see the connection either. The guard and his son are unworthy hunters, they have no respect.
Sofia wrote: "Oh yes we can empathise there. I think you are right, it's difficult for us to connect becayse Carver looks at peopke like he is looking at insects to examine."or like a surgeon who's cut open too many bodies ...
Yeah aloof, unengaged
how is your day, darling?I haven't read a story yet. Off to meet with my landlady and when I'm back home i'll do some reading.
working today Maya - I hope to get in a couple of them soonhave a nice walk - see you later :D
Sofia wrote: "Popular Mechanics [spoilers removed]"I had similar reaction. Why would he write such a story? Ugh.
I guess the irony in it is great - I mean both the title and the last sentence but just .,, too much.
an ugly sort of Solomon story
Sofia wrote: "Everything Stuck to Him - [spoilers removed]"Interesting. I got the impression that he stayed but for an unknown reason and at an unknown time the mother had left. I thought that from the moment he returned back from the car he decided to be father.
I've no idea how the seperation happened but his daughter seemed like a stranger didn't she?
One More Thing. (view spoiler)I'm still puzzled by Carver though, what he wants to say? Or is he just a quick route to a depression?
Sofia wrote: "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love drinking gin and how much we love each other :D Seriously though if 'what is real love' is the question I'd say i prefer the old couples version than th..."
hehe, for me it was fun reading this one because I still had that image of Naomi Watts (Terri) and Edward Norton (Mel) on that table. So basically the way I understood it is that there's no definition for love. Which, again, is not something new.
In relation to Birdman: very interesting that Riggan chose to play the role of Ed. Because Ed was desperately in love with his wife and Riggan wasn't in love with anyone or anything for that matter. Maybe he chose to play this tragic character to show off?
I don't know. But now I get the irony in the movie when in the end Riggan shot his nose. That is, if the last scene in the hospital wasn't a dream.
Sofia wrote: "One More Thing. [spoilers removed]I'm still puzzled by Carver though, what he wants to say? Or is he just a quick route to a depression?"
I'm going to read that last one before bed. Final thought tomorrow.
One More Thing Funny that he should end the collection the this story after What We Talk About.
I guess sometimes there's nothing left to say.
So, going over all the stories, I don’t think we can put them in a framework. The stories have the themes of: loneliness, alcoholism, separation/loss, inability to move on, indifference/detachment, violence, doubt, infidelity/lies, guilt, fear, nostalgia, and - of course – love. But not happiness or joy or any other positive emotion, I think? I mean, the majority of the stories were about people in a relationship/marriage but we see them at the breaking point, when the love is gone so …Did you read his bio on Wikipedia? The things that happened during/at the end of his first marriage – I think we see a lot of these in the stories.
And then the inscription on his tombstone:
LATE FRAGMENT
And did you get what
you wanted from this life, even so?
I did.
And what did you want?
To call myself beloved, to feel myself
beloved on the earth.
I've been over to read his bio on Wiki and yes totally as I was reading I was, yes that bit is a story and that one and that one. Still the bleakness is sad so I was surprised by the epitaph which is not sad isn't it?
yes, the poem is not sad.Maybe his message is that even if love is not permanent or absolute and usually when it ends things are ugly, the important thing is to experience it.
not if I read his stories only - in that case I'd run a mile away from love :PThe poem though gives a different picture.
I don't know if I want to read any more Carver (he has another two collections I think). I think I'd do it if we leave some time in between to forget the sadness :D
For me this book was harder to read than Will You Please Be Quiet Please. Not sure why yet.Ok, maybe we'll revisit next year. I read a couple of reviews of Cathedral and people say it's more hopeful.
That's good news - I'll put it on our list 2017 :D
I have no idea how to rate this one. I can't say I enjoyed it but at the same time I recognize how unique it is what he's doing with so few words. So many layers, it's like you have to read between the between the lines. I just don't know.
Yes, I think you might be right. Very nostalgic and sad this one.