What We Talk About When We Talk About Love
discussion
What We Talk About When We Talk About Love - reading Maya & Sofia - 28th April 2016
Great!I just read in a review that the scrip of Iñárritu's movie Birdman is based on the story 'What We Talk About'.
Very curious.
I'm going to watch it this weekend and will let you know.
Maya wrote: "I'm going to watch it this weekend and will let you know."Yes do
Just read the first two stories - they are very short.We may need to pace our reading so we can digest these. Let's see how you feel when you read the 2.
thoughts before reading your spoiler:So I saw the end of one relationship (for unknown reasons but the narrator said there was a 'her' side on the bed and there's no her in house any more) and the beginning of another (the two young people moving in together).
The man's world seemed to have been turned upside down (with all the furniture out in the yard and the house empty) and the two young people taking advantage of that. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to sell this stuff.
I think the most important moment in the story was when the girl dances with the man. The story somehow became about her and not him after that. Like, what seeing and connecting with this man mean to her, how did it change her.
Sofia wrote: "I read the first oneWHY DON’T YOU DANCE? [spoilers removed]"
yeah, I think her remark about the records was the typical reaction to kick someone who's already down.
I think she was maybe too young to understand what's happening but intuitively sensed he was desperate and then her attitude changed.
Reminds me thar life is like a wheel going round and round. Sometimes we're up, sometimes we're down.
I've no idea how to view VIEWFINDER, can't understand what the kids meant, or the hooks or the rocks.......
Sofia wrote: "I've no idea how to view VIEWFINDER, can't understand what the kids meant, or the hooks or the rocks......."I know, right? I think every little thing symbolizes something in this story. I actually read it twice to try and figure out what's what.
I have highlighted this:
"So why would I want a photograph of this tragedy?"
because my immediate thought was that the man has not yet accepted that he's alone. He's uncomfortable and wants to hide it.
Did you notice that Carver capitalizes some words? When they went outside to take photos, when the man got back inside but by himself (when while the 20 photos were taken he didn't look back at the house). I think the man and the photographer connected because they both had kids but now they don't and the fact that the photographer had moved on with his life helps the man to see that he can do it too.
The throwing of the rocks off the roof I understood as the man beginning to unload his past (if the house was the past).
The hooks: the photographer said that that's another story so I'm taking this as it is.
Does this make any sense?
I agree about the rocks.I'm still confused about the kids. I get a feeling of apprehension about them :
The man with the hooks says he lost his hands because if his kids.
The man in the house seems almost to be afraid of the kids who came to paint his address. Almost like they were a gang of thieves or conmen.
hmm, maybe it's important that the photographer was harmed physically while the pain the man feels is trapped inside him?I got the impression that the rocks on the roof were thrown there by some kids too but not that the man was afraid of them, he just hated it.
Watching Birdman right now.Edward Norton's character: "Carver left a piece of his liver for every goddamned page he wrote!"
Does he say that? I saw it some time ago before our Carver.I wonder why that gap between kids and them. Shall we read more tomorrow?
yes, right after he ruined the first performance because he was drinking real gin. I'd like to continue tomorrow, yes. Ok for you?
Good morning Mayayes ok - I'll read them during my break, as we're going out this evening so little time for reading tonight. Another two or?
morning :)I can read two or more since I'm not at work today - up to you.
wow, Birdman was crazy! I loved how fluidly Inarritu meshed reality with the theater play and with fantasy but ultimately I didn't think it was a very deep movie (unless, of course, it's too smart for me to understand it). Like the critic said to Riggan: he was a celebrity and not an artist so everything about him was pretty shallow. Basically, when Riggan plays that scene on stage when he says: I'm nothing etc etc, because he lost the love of his wife, by the end of the movie I think he understands that's true for him in real life too.
But now I'm even more curious to read that specific Carver story to figure out why Riggan chose it for his show.
I agree about the meshing and the shallowness - Riggan - much ado about nothing (or everything) - as the bard would say but yes now I'm curious too.I've read two during my break - and I can read a couple more before I go out and then we'll talk about them later. If it's too much we can leave them for tomorrow.
HAPPY EASTER darling - enjoy your time away from work :D
it was worth watching for the actors' performances definitely but that running around the back corridors of the theater that he used instead of cutting the scenes when they ended made ne dizzy :)oh thanks, I slept until noon today--felt so good :D
ok, read one more if you have time. I'll catch up very soon.
Mr Coffee and Mr FixitHuh, do you think the narrator of this story was the same as the one in the first two and we are gradually learning what happened to this nameless man?
I'm not sure if that's the case, I just thought about it because the three stories are about the letting go of the past.
Anyway, the most interesting detail in this story was when he said he no longer made fun of Mr Fixit because I thought that was him accepting that Ross was Myrna's way to fight her alcoholism.
If that is so than it's bleak, adultery and drink. Both things that continue the cycle of 'bad' rather than something that can make you feel better.I think if he accepts that they (him amd Myrna) are not right for each other and that they can do better elsewhere than that is a way out even for him. Because if he remains their (in the past) he will be tied down blaming himself, blaming her, turning more and more to drink.
Carver must be a very bleak man.
GazeboThe end of a marriage. Was there anything else to it?
I mean, the contrast between them is clear: she is thinking of the happy times they had in the past, he's thinking of his time with Juanita. It doesn't seem to be a way back to each other for them.
Maya wrote: "GazeboThe end of a marriage. Was there anything else to it?
I mean, the contrast between them is clear: she is thinking of the happy times they had in the past, he's thinking of his time with Jua..."
This one made me sad. They had a life, a somewhat good life and it went berserk with adultery and drink again. What you said about Carver and pieces of his liver, with all this drink about the liver is shot for sure.
Maya wrote: "I Could See the Smallest ThingsI liked this one better than the previous.
I liked this one and I liked Sam, that he is a builder, that he set aside the drink, that he tries to solve, do better. I don't know if the slugs have a deeper meaning. Your observation about Nancy, yeah like a butterfly, off to see the gate, then off to see Sam, then off to see the slugs. Is she more liable to tge drink this way? Why is drink such a sceptre in these stories?
Did you have a nice night out?The rain finally stopped here so I decided to take a long walk and go to a bakery a love to buy Easter bread. And I did some shopping with the idea that I might cook something but now that I'm home I don't feel like it :)
reading it right now, will be back shortly
I don't know why his wife doesn't need the sweets, it's as if she is not there but there is no bitterness on his side like he is distant like you said, and like his father said, he only knows how to sell books.The father's story is moving because it shows how fragile the lifes we build are. A weak moment, compounded by other weak moments and pouf.
agreed, I sympathized with the father as well.
What if she is sick?
I don't think we can know for sure from the story. When Les said to his father that everything at home was fine but he thought: that wasn't the truth - all we know is there's trouble at home.
The Bath I was wondering why this was so familiar and then I remembered seeing that story in that movie, Shortcuts.
So, another one without resolution. Was is just for us to witness their fear of loss and helplessness?
I'm glad there's finally some variety in the stories. I was beginning to get scared all 17 will feature characters with alcoholism.
I'm just jumping in here to...ATTACK HUG!!
Lol Rosa we need all those hugs, thank you :DHugging you right back
Hi Rosa :D
How are you doing?
It's our Easter Weekend here so I'm just being lazy, eating a lot and reading depressing stories. Fun times!
Maya I kept seeing the film too. This felt cleaner, more poignant. Fragile lives. I recently read a Nabokov story Signs and Symbols which had a similar end with an ambiguous phonecall which could or couldnt be bad news.
Shall we do another?
I just googled this story and it appears he edited it and made it twice longer and it's republished in his collection Cathedral under the name A Small, Good Thing. In the revised version (view spoiler)
I kind of prefer the version we just read ambiguous as it may be.
Let's read 2 more today. Then we'll have 4 for tomorrow and 4 for Monday. Sounds doable to you?
Maya wrote: "Let's read 2 more today. Then we'll have 4 for tomorrow and 4 for Monday. Sounds doable to you?"Doable yes : D
I remember this from Shortcuts as well. The written one is better in my opinion. So normal, so sinister. Jerry does not like being thwarted, ugh.We need a dose of smiles after these.
And then he is capable of going home to the wife and barbeque some sausages.
Sofia wrote: "And then he is capable of going home to the wife and barbeque some sausages."did that happen in the movie?
I'm going to try and finish it these days. I stopped somewhere in the middle.
No something else did :-)
WHY DON’T YOU DANCE?
VIEWFINDER
MR. COFFEE AND MR. FIXIT
GAZEBO
I COULD SEE THE SMALLEST THINGS
SACKS
THE BATH
TELL THE WOMEN WE’RE GOING
AFTER THE DENIM
SO MUCH WATER SO CLOSE TO HOME
THE THIRD THING THAT KILLED MY FATHER OFF
A SERIOUS TALK
THE CALM
POPULAR MECHANICS
EVERYTHING STUCK TO HIM
WHAT WE TALK ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LOVE
ONE MORE THING