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Readalong and Q&A with Susan Fleet - Absolution
Eek, Jean, I just read your comment. Sorry if some of these posts are revealing too much. I don't think I know how to hide them. How do you put in a "spoiler alert"? I know one person did that already. Will try to do this in future comments.
Finished! Thank you, Susan, I enjoyed your characters and writing. Well done! I think Frank would make a good TV character in a cop drama. I like it when an author molds defects into the protagonist.
For as much as we like some characters, we dislike others. A good example is Nanny, Tim's
tutor after his mother died and later his father's wife. Tim has horrible memories of her and, as he calls them, her "tortures". Didn't she do horrible things to him, depriving him of food, etc.
Would you say that Nanny was "sick"/ mentally disturbed OR
was she just showing her displeasure at having a child, not her own, in the household when she wanted her new husband's undivided attention or what do you think .... ??
Dave wrote: "Finished! Thank you, Susan, I enjoyed your characters and writing. Well done! I think Frank would make a good TV character in a cop drama. I like it when an author molds defects into the protagonist."Thanks, Dave. So happy you liked it! Can I count on you to recommend it to the Netflix, Amazon or HBO execs? :)
Any suggestions on what actor should play him? Anyone else please feel free to chime in!
I agree that a too-perfect protagonist just isn't believable. But I am tired of reading about reformed alcoholics, meeting with a suspect in a bar (where else?) and fighting an inward battle with his alcoholic cravings. So I decided Frank would have a different issue. But throughout the marital difficulties, it's clear that he adores his daughter. It's also clear that his tendency toward risk-taking behavior can land him in trouble, personally and professionally.
Betsy wrote: "For as much as we like some characters, we dislike others. A good example is Nanny, Tim's
tutor after his mother died and later his father's wife. Tim has horrible memories of her and, as he call..."
Nanny was, what can I say? A monster? No question she abused him. And yes, I think she just didn't want to be bothered with him. She had her sights set on marrying his father. Unfortunately, she didn't have many redeeming qualities. I probably should have given her at least one ... but I couldn't think of any!
Do you think that Tim's father knew about these "tortures" and felt it easier to overlook them or he just didn't care to stop them?What kind of father were you trying to portray here w/ Tim?
I guess that all Tim needed/wanted was love, which he never got.
I just read (listened to audio) yesterday and it was so good of course I had to stay up past one to finish it . This was terrific and I think the character descriptions were wonderful; especially the killer. I could picture someone I knew as not a serial killer, but in other values very similar to the killer. Now I just need to get up to snuff reading all the posts on here. Thanks Susan, for a great read. Won't write a review until I have read the rest of the posts on here.
Mod
I am starting the book today, and have bought number two in the series Diva.
The series is up to number 6 folks, so we all need to keep reading...!
Betsy wrote: "Do you think that Tim's father knew about these "tortures" and felt it easier to overlook them or he just didn't care to stop them?What kind of father were you trying to portray here w/ Tim?
I g..."
I think he was more into his career and Nanny. He either didn't know about the "tortures" or didn't want to know about them.
Karen B. wrote: "I just read (listened to audio) yesterday and it was so good of course I had to stay up past one to finish it . This was terrific and I think the character descriptions were wonderful; especially t..."Thanks, Karen! Sorry to keep you up all night, but so happy you enjoyed it! And I'm happy you listened to the audio version. I thought my narrator, Rich Miller, did a terrific job.
As you will see, several people on the thread commented on the characters, and we would love to hear your opinions about them!
Sean wrote: "HiI am starting the book today, and have bought number two in the series Diva. The series is up to number 6 folks, so we all need to keep reading...!"
Looking forward to your comments, Sean! So happy to be gaining more Frank Renzi fans! What a nice Mother's Day present!
Speaking of which, Happy Mother's Day to everyone on the thread!
Betsy, forgot to mention something. re your comment: I guess that all Tim needed/wanted was love, which he never got. It's pretty sad that he felt like the only love he got was from Brother Henry, the priest who sexually abused him at boarding school.
Glad that you brought up Brother Henry, Susan, because I wondered about that relationship and it brought up some questions:Did Tim have homosexual tendencies or was he just a victim of circumstances w/ Brother Henry? I remember Tim's father saying that Tim "liked" it.
Did Tim really hate women? None of his victims were sexually penetrated; could he even consummate the sex act?
Betsy wrote: "Glad that you brought up Brother Henry, Susan, because I wondered about that relationship and it brought up some questions:Did Tim have homosexual tendencies or was he just a victim of circumsta..."
I got the impression that he had penetrated some of the women he was with. I never thought he had homosexual tendencies. Maybe he's bi. But he was constantly fantasizing about women and kept getting aroused. That would indicate to me that he prefers women. Brother Henry was someone who loved him even if it did include sex. It was the love he craved and enjoyed.
Susan, I think that it was clever of you to come up w/ the theory that the killer picks his victims b/c they have physical flaws e.g. birthmarks, limps, etc..Is this b/c they're more vulnerable, have emotional scars OR
perhaps b/c that makes them more like him... w/ his stutter ??
Karen B. wrote: "I got the impression that he had penetrated some of the women he was with. I never thought he had homosexual tendencies. Maybe he's bi. But he was constantly fantasizing about women and kept getting aroused. That would indicate to me that he prefers women. Brother Henry was someone who loved him even if it did include sex. It was the love he craved and enjoyed."I wrote Tim as a straight character. However, due to the encounter with Brother Henry, he worried that he might be gay. As I understand it, this isn't unusual, especially if the boy is already insecure in the first place. And you're correct, Karen, it was the love and affection that he craved.
Forgot to say, he also feels threatened by Frank, not just b/c he's a cop, but because of his obvious masculinity. So Tim tries to get under his skin with the comment about the gray hair.
Betsy wrote: "Susan, I think that it was clever of you to come up w/ the theory that the killer picks his victims b/c they have physical flaws e.g. birthmarks, limps, etc.. Is this b/c they're more vulnerable, ..."Glad you mentioned this, Betsy. I deliberately gave each victim some sort of flaw that made them feel insecure, which made them more susceptible to Tim's "charm." And that's why he chose them. He even references this when he meets Lisa Marie in the bar. He thinks to himself, forget the exact quote: she's insecure. The best kind.
Of course, like all narcissists, he thinks he's smarter than everyone.
Hi Susan. I just finished the book tonight. Thanks for being so open to questions and comments. I would like to go back to Ann's comment about the racial tensions. I'd like to know how others felt about Rona's attitudes and actions vs. Norris vs. Miller. (view spoiler) . As for Norris, his actions seem to speak for themselves. He never voices an opinion. I liked Miller. I wish he had had a bigger role, because he seemed like a good cop. He seems like a guy who does his job and just gets along with everyone the best he can.
Jean said, "I'd like to know how others felt about Rona's attitudes and actions vs. Norris vs. Miller...."Yes, I'd like to hear what people thought about this too.
Rona and Norris are opposed in their views. Both are entrenched, and I thought this made a great undercurrent to the story.
Does the theme of racial tension figure in others in this series, Susan?
Also, there are some pretty negative, dare I say "damning" portrayals of the Catholic Church, specifically, the clergy. It's an interesting contrast that it is Sean who is the most compassionate and loving of the men who seemingly represent the Church. In today's world, lawsuits and charges of abuse by priests are commonplace, but Susan, have you gotten negative feedback about Tim's role in this book?
Mod
I am about 25% into the book.
Great character building, especially Frank, do not like Norris !
The pace is great.
Susan, I forgot to put this in my review, but I'm curious to know if you intentionally chose Mr. Goodbar candy as a sly reference to the movie, which was based on an actual case, I believe.
To Ann and Jean, Great observations and comments !Have thought about Rona Jefferson's role as she was an excellent counterpoint to Special Agent Norris whom she felt was only looking at blacks as the murderer and she wanted to prove him wrong. When Norris went on TV, he even said that they had a person of interest in custody and she knew that person was a black man. I try to put myself in the place of certain characters e.g. Rona, and IF I had a "voice" , as she did with her popular newspaper column, and she felt so strongly about the racial bias against the blacks, I would use that voice to speak out, as she did, to alert the readers of the
"other" side. And, it was she who wrote in her column her thoughts that it was a WHITE priest hiding behind a Roman collar, revealed that the killer had left his DNA on a victim and called for the police to get DNA samples from every white priest, which the higher ups in the Catholic Church resisted. I applaud her efforts !
Which brings me to the Catholic Church and the on-going , horrific child molestation incidents/cases. I don't know when this book was written, but these things were certainly going on then, kept under wraps/ not exposed. You're right; the Catholic Church was not viewed favorably in the book. The Archbishop felt the need to protect its own, like the scandals of today. However, I thought "Father" Sean Daily , even with his past, was a bright light, a good man, doing good things , and rising far above his misdeeds which he later confessed.
Yes, Tim sure did love his chocolate bars , those treats that Nanny would hold just out of his reach. I think it was on Tim's 4th b-day, she used Kit Kat bars to make him talk. "I knew damn well that you could talk; you talk or you don't eat." And, at the end, at the rest area convenience store, he scarfed up Mr. Goodbars, like you said, Jean, maybe his comfort food. Don't remember the " Mr. Goodbar" movie; was it a murder/ crime movie?
Betsy I think you meant that you thought "Father" Sean was basically good.One of the things I liked about this book was the idea that there were a lot of priests like Father Tim in being very conservative and seeing people as sinners. I don't know how it is in other places, but in my own experience as a Catholic I became very turned off by these young, conservative priests. I remember one priest told the students that it was better to pray in Latin. I was horrified by this and later asked him half jokingly, but he got my point ..."Does God hear better in Latin than He does in English?" I knew a few priests like "Father" Sean who actually left the priesthood around the beginning of this century.
Hi folks, I'm running late tonight and don't have much time, so I'll answer questions in order ... get to others when I can. Jean first: Hi Susan. I just finished the book tonight. Thanks for being so open to questions and comments. I would like to go back to Ann's comment about the racial tensions. I'd like to know how others felt about Rona's attitudes and actions vs. Norris vs. Miller. (view spoiler) . As for Norris, his actions seem to speak for themselves. He never voices an opinion. I liked Miller. I wish he had had a bigger role, because he seemed like a good cop. He seems like a guy who does his job and just gets along with everyone the best he can.
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Well, first and easiest, I'm glad you liked Kenyon Miller. He's a continuing character in the series. His view of racism, and Norris, is much more low-key than Rona's. As a black man born in the Jim Crow South, he's aware of the racism that exists there. He wouldn't take a direct insult without doing something about it, but he, like many others in New Orleans, tends to be resigned to more subtle racial bias. He tunes in to those with racist tendencies, but he doesn't view Frank (or others in the NOPD) as one of them.
Norris is basically insecure. And like other bigots, racial bias allows him to feel superior.
Rona is on the far end of the anti-bias spectrum. She grew up in Texas [see my comment below about this. Her father was executed for a murder he didn't commit. The rants in her columns (remember this is a black-owned newspaper with a predominantly black readership) are deliberate and calculated. She wants to inflame their passions. Makes no bones about this. Miller is aware of it: Barbed wire with attitude, manages to piss off half the people in town: the white half. Her comments about the "white priest" stem from Kitty's story.
When I lived in N.O., I drove to Houston a few times. Couldn't believe what was on AM radio. [forgive me, I don't intend to insult anyone from Texas, but .... ] Conservative talk radio to the max, Rush Limberger crossed with Glenn Beck and worse, appealing to mostly male redneck callers. None of them black. Trust me, 97 times out of 100, I can identify a black male voice. Except for Colin Powell, of course. This comes to mind because Powell was testifying to Congress on one particular day about the infamous "WMD" and the news segments played quotes of what he said. ... But I'm wandering far afield here.
Ann wrote: "Jean said, "I'd like to know how others felt about Rona's attitudes and actions vs. Norris vs. Miller...."Yes, I'd like to hear what people thought about this too.
Rona and Norris are opposed in..." Does the theme of racial tension figure in others in this series, Susan?
Quick answer and then I've gotta run. To a certain extent racial bias figures in most of the books, b/c that's my perception of the general attitudes of some, tho certainly NOT all, NO residents. In DIVA, book 2 in the series, I write about the aftermath of Katrina and how it affected so many people, especially those who lived in public housing projects, many of which were destroyed. A subplot revolves around a young black girl who lived w/her mother in one of the projects before Katrina. Millions of people saw the horrible scenes at the Superdome and the Convention Center. The looting. The National Guard troops. But six months later, they forgot about it. In fact, I let Frank do a rant about it on the 10th anniversary. http://darkdeeds.susanfleet.com/blog/...
Diva takes place 14 months post-Katrina and things are still bad. I know because I was living there. So in Diva, the NOPD is short hundreds of officers. Gangs have taken over the projects. People are still living in FEMA trailers!! A lot of them.
See more about the book on my website. http://susanfleet.com/fleet-diva.html
Love your questions ... you get me all riled up!! :)
Gotta run! I'll be back tomorrow.
Sean wrote: "HiI am about 25% into the book. Great character building, especially Frank, do not like Norris ! The pace is great."
Thanks, Sean. Keep the comments coming!
Jean wrote: "Susan, I forgot to put this in my review, but I'm curious to know if you intentionally chose Mr. Goodbar candy as a sly reference to the movie, which was based on an actual case, I believe."As a matter of fact I did, tho I'm not familiar with the actual case. I saw the movie though. And also, I wanted him to keep picking peanuts out of his teeth. :)
I know that you portrayed Rona as a rabble-rouser, and she was, but I like all you did with her as a secondary character ; I thought she is well-developed. We certainly know where she is coming from !And, HOW would you all have reacted had you been sent what looked like a florist's box and when you opened it, inside was a large, dead, bloody blackbird? Would you have been as cool as Rona who put the bird into her freezer ?? Egads!
And finally to Jean's larger question: Jean wrote: "Also, there are some pretty negative, dare I say "damning" portrayals of the Catholic Church, specifically, the clergy. It's an interesting contrast that it is Sean who is the most compassionate and loving of the men who seemingly represent the Church. In today's world, lawsuits and charges of abuse by priests are commonplace, but Susan, have you gotten negative feedback about Tim's role in this book? ..."I've had varied reactions. One woman asked me if I had a grudge against the Catholic Church. Another criticized me for the foul language I used in the book. However, at one book signing, a young woman, mid-twenties?, read the back jacket copy, laughed and jokingly said, "oh, so this is really a non-fiction book, huh?"
I've had extensive interactions with Catholic priests. As mentioned earlier, I worked as a trumpet player for several decades and got to know the pastors at several churches where i worked regularly. A couple of them were great and I enjoyed talking to them. Others I didn't know as well. One smoked like a chimney and reeked of cigarettes. Another was accused of housing a teenage boy in the rectory and I never saw him again.
In one instance, I played for Bernard Cardinal Law, who later was embroiled in the pedophile priest scandal in the Boston Archdiocese. There were many extended articles about it in the Boston Globe and elsewhere. After I moved to New Orleans, I read a book about an earlier pedophile priest scandal in Louisiana.
I have no doubt that certain devout Catholics will not like my portrayals of priests in Absolution. However, given my experiences, I don't think my portrayal of the priests, especially the Archbishop, is far off the mark. Some priests do good work. Others engage in criminal behavior. Some are punished for it. Bernard Law get a cushy job at the Vatican to live out his days.
And I have a question for you folks! Regarding the use of profanity. Does the f-word and variations thereof bother you? One woman reviewed the audiobook version, gave it 2 stars and said: Too much swearing and sex!" Not a word about the plot or the characters. If she hated it so much, why did she finish it? My position is this. Cops swear. Criminals swear. A frustrated serial killer or stalker doesn't say "Oh darn!" And the book descriptions are pretty clear that these are not cozy mysteries.
I await your comments. To swear, or not to swear, that is the question. :)
Karen B. wrote: "Betsy I think you meant that you thought "Father" Sean was basically good.One of the things I liked about this book was the idea that there were a lot of priests like Father Tim in being very con..."
Oops, I think I skipped over your comment, Karen. I agree that some of the younger priests I met seemed particularly gung ho and ultra conservative. Not sure why. But many parishes are closing and consolidating to save money and also because there aren't enough priests. Not that the Vatican will allow the ordination of female priests anytime soon.
One reason Tim saw young people as sinners was that he wanted to control them. Because he knew he was a sinner and couldn't control himself!
Re: your last comment, Susan, Tim as "the sinner;" isn't that part of the reason he kills? For those who have not finished, don't read this (view spoiler)
Mod
Really enjoying the book, 70% in and cannot stop reading.
Great pace, great strong characters
Gripping
In today's society, we have become immune to foul language as we are bombarded by it, and the more it's used, the less its shock value.I, a 75 yr. old ret'd teacher, may not use the f-word , but it no longer bothers me as it once did.
I do think that writers must be realistic and what comes out of their characters' mouths in their books has to be believable. People swear, for all kinds of reasons; that's just the way it is and "darn" doesn't seem to do it anymore so....
I base my reaction to a book on interest level: interesting, well-developed characters involved in an interesting plot.
So, Susan, you have my permission to swear away :)
And, in response to Jean :~25%, we're told that he feels it IS his mission to absolve the women he kills, hearing their confessions so they might enter Heaven.
But, I do like Jean, how you thought to tie in Tim's absolution with that of his victims'. A sinner himself and a messed up guy!
I barely noticed the swearing, so I guess, like Betty, I've become used to reading it. That's not exactly true, though, because sometimes it really stands out as attention-grabbing (for example, if someone who rarely cusses drops the F-bomb) or when it's very inappropriate. I do feel that it can be taken to the extreme, however, and if someone is constantly using foul language, that does bother me.
Thinking about two characters whom we haven't mentioned yet:1. Maureen, Frank's daughter. As a product of divorce and Frank was charged w/ adultery of which he was guilty, it must have been ugly for her.
What did you think of Maureen? How does she feel toward her mother and father? Good portrayal ??
2. Dana Swenson, Tim's therapist when he still lived at home.
Do you think that she knew/understood Tim well ?
How would you describe her feelings toward Tim?
Susan, Did you purposely want someone in the book who was sympathetic to Tim, as she was?
Mod
Really enjoyed the book.
Strong and very realistic characters, loved Frank Renzi.
Working on my review
Hi folks, I'm finally back. Busy day yesterday. Birthdays and cake and one of the little dawlins was in a play last night. The musical version of The Adams Family. Terrific show, very funny, and great music. So now I'll get busy and try to catch up with your comments and questions!
Jean wrote: "Re: your last comment, Susan, Tim as "the sinner;" isn't that part of the reason he kills? For those who have not finished, don't read this [spoilers removed]"Yes, I agree that this is one reason. Tim is convinced he's a sinner, though I'm sure he didn't think of himself in that way when he tortured the squirrels. And the fact is, many children suffer great abuse during childhood, but they don't all become serial killers.
Which is, to a certain extent, Frank Renzi's position. And as with real-life serial killers, the true reasons may never be known. FBI profilers talk to them, but admit that these killers often lie to impress them. It's all about ego.
Thus, although I did have Frank try to figure him out, and question Dana about him and any possible motivations, I didn't feel compelled to state with 100 percent certainty what Tim's motives were. Clearly, he chose young women who exhibited certain vulnerabilities, believing they would succumb to his charm.
Betsy wrote: "In today's society, we have become immune to foul language as we are bombarded by it, and the more it's used, the less its shock value.I, a 75 yr. old ret'd teacher, may not use the f-word , but ..."
Love your comment, Betsy. I agree we're bombarded by foul language. People walking on the street, in the subway, chatting in the seats behind you in a movie theater think nothing of using the f-bomb. This is also true of movies and non-network TV shows. Hey, can you imagine Tony Soprano getting pissed off and not using the f-word?
When I'm writing dialogue, I try to make it true to the character. Frank doesn't swear a lot, only when something truly bothers him. But a lot of police do swear when talking among themselves. In DIVA, Frank gets a new boss, Vobitch, a self-described "New York Jew," drops plenty of F-bombs, but never in front of his wife, an elegant, black ballerina.
Jean wrote: "I barely noticed the swearing, so I guess, like Betty, I've become used to reading it. That's not exactly true, though, because sometimes it really stands out as attention-grabbing (for example, if..."I agree, Jean. Used excessively, it can be very annoying and I try not to do this. On the other hand, sometimes I just don't find it credible when an author writes gangster or criminal dialogue with nary a cuss word. Take David Baldacci, for example. He writes thrillers, some are very suspenseful, but I don't find it credible when really nasty criminals don't utter a single cuss word.
Responding to Betsy's question about Maureen ... Frank's daughter. As a product of divorce and Frank was charged w/ adultery of which he was guilty, it must have been ugly for her.>>Yes it was, and it was equally painful for Frank, who adores his daughter. I'm really tired of protagonists who are "reformed alcoholics" so I chose another issue for Frank. An equally relevant one, given the statistics that show half of all married people have cheated on their spouse, Three books into the series, I decided to write a prequel. Jackpot, book 4, is set in Boston, before Frank moved to New Orleans. I go into much more detail about his soon-to-be ex-wife and the two women Frank had long-term affairs with.
I'll let other folks weigh in on your questions: What did you think of Maureen? How does she feel toward her mother and father? Good portrayal ??
And as for Betsy's other question: Dana Swenson, Tim's therapist when he still lived at home. ... Susan, Did you purposely want someone in the book who was sympathetic to Tim, as she was?I wanted to show him from a different perspective, yes. Lisa Marie's view of him was obviously skewed by her neediness. Dana had a more professional understanding of Tim's problems. However, her view was also skewed by her brother's problems.
I will be interested to hear what others say in answer to your other questions. << Do you think that she knew/understood Tim well ? How would you describe her feelings toward Tim?>>
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Sean wrote: "Finished the book today.Really enjoyed the book.
Strong and very realistic characters, loved Frank Renzi.
Working on my review"
Thanks, Sean. I'm glad you enjoyed the book, and I'm happy you're going to write a review, but ... come on ... tell us what you think. What made you love Frank Renzi? :)
Mod
Susan, You did a good job w/ Maureen , IMO, showing the conflict that goes on w/in kids of divorce, even older ones like Maureen. Yes, she loved both her mother and father. Obviously, her mother was not a very strong woman and relied on Maureen a lot, and Maureen was very protective of her.On the other hand, she reached out to her dad to come to Baltimore to talk about choosing her speciality in med. school; too bad that Frank was always so involved/busy in a case. Maureen did care about her dad and checked on him when he was in the hospital. She, considering her situation, was believable to me.
However, Dana Swenson, Tim's therapist, maybe was just too unrealistic for me, and I felt that she didn't see Tim for what he really was, a killer of women. To say, "He's just looking for someone to love him" and "Give him a chance, Frank," when Tim never gave those women a chance kinda angered me. And after all the evidence piling up against Tim, Dana said, "Dammit, Frank, you don't know he killed these women" = what ??!! She seemed out-of-touch here. Didn't ring true to me, but.... just my feelings.
Hi Susan, i think your portrayal of Maureen and the complicated relationships with both her mother and father were spot on. She reached out for Frank to come to Baltimore to advise her on a very big life decision, and as so often happens- the job that Frank held got in the way. This was very believable to me and you portrayed it just as i imagine it happens in real life. Frank really really struggled with wanting to get there for her.
Dana was caught in the typical therapist/patient loop i believe. She was understanding of Tim's problems but I also believe she had the deep down fear/knowledge that he was guilty and struggled with the position that put her in
Dana was caught in the typical therapist/patient loop i believe. She was understanding of Tim's problems but I also believe she had the deep down fear/knowledge that he was guilty and struggled with the position that put her in
Hi Christina ... thanks for the review on Amazon BTW. As for Dana revealing some things about Tim to Frank. It probably wasn't strictly according to Hoyle or the HIPAA laws (whatever they are, patient confidentiality?_ but when she realized that the lives of more victims might be at stake, she felt obligated to tell Frank certain things.