The Plantagenets discussion
2016 Reboot
>
Hello Again
date
newest »
newest »
I've been interested in Richard III ever since I visited the Tower of London as a child and got to know about the mystery of the Princes. (It may be common knowledge for somebody who lives and studies in England but I'm Italian and I'd never heard about anything about it before...). As I grew up I came to love all things about the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Nine out of ten books I read are about the Plantagenets or the Tudors.
Silvia wrote: "I've been interested in Richard III ever since I visited the Tower of London as a child and got to know about the mystery of the Princes. (It may be common knowledge for somebody who lives and stud..."Really? I'm Serbian and I've known about the mystery of the princes since... I don't even remember, it's pretty famous, even if you know nothing about English history. Kind of like Henry VIII and his wives. Although the thing that's even more famous and that even more people associate with Richard III is that silly line by WS "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse".
Mod
I know some things about the Plantagenets and have much to earn. I hope we can make this group into a learning/sharing one.
Would someone like to moderate a read of one of the books about the princes?
My interest in the Plantagenets began when my mother gave me a series of books by Thomas B. Costain (The Conquering Family, The Magnificent Century, The Three Edwards, The Last Plantagenets) when I was in high school. I read The Three Edwards first and became very interested in Edward I, then I read The Conquering Family, and became completely fascinated by Henry II who has pretty much been my favorite Plantagenet king ever since. I know there are very large pros and cons to his character, and I'd rather not argue about the fact that I like him. (I got picked apart a bit in another thread in this group over my fondness for him. That's been a couple of years and I don't blame the group, but I did at some point just quit visiting here as a result.)I hope it's okay to like different members of the Plantagenet family for all our different reasons without having someone try to "show us the error of our ways?" We all come at historical figures differently. Personally, I don't feel that one way should be more valid than another. Most of my study of Henry II has been via non-fiction (Henry II, Henry Plantagenet: A Biography of Henry II of England). I know there are some highly researched, award winning fictionalized accounts of him (Sharon Kay Penman), but I've built up such a personalized image of him in my mind through decades of reading historical and contemporary accounts about him that I find I don't enjoy fiction as much as I enjoy reading fact for this particular king.
I enjoy fiction about all the other Plantagenents, though I don't have time to commit to a reading group right now.
I also came to the Plantagenets via the Costain books, when I was in middle school. I had my mother's old paperback copies from the 50s, and you had to be very careful handling them - the spines were collapsing into dust.
Mod
Welcome back, Joyce. I'm sorry you had a rough experience in this group. I admire you for giving it another chance.
How do you think Peter O'Toole did in portraying him at different times in his life?
I need to write more about the purposes and goals of this group, but I promise I will do all I can to support differing opinions and prevent nastiness from breaking out. How on earth are we going to learn anything if we just silo ourselves (or polarize ^^!)??
I love R III, by the way, and I know people will disagree with me on that. It's okay, though, because Kevin Spacey loves him, too (Frank Underwood, anybody)?
Mod
Just the other day I found my 1968 copy of The Last Unicorn. It is quite fragile. I also have a copy of a book about Eleanor of Acquitaine published around the same time that I am afraid to touch.
I came to the Plantagenets via the Tudors. I had read Young Bess, got interested, read some more, and then went backwards. 1066-1603! Another influence was Katherine. Richard III is also a particular fascination, as is Eleanor of Aquitaine and the relationship between Katherine d'Valois and Owen Tudor. But I know bits and pieces about all of them.
Mod
Add me to the list that was introduced to the family via Thomas Costain's books. My mother gave me a copy when I was a middle teenager (15 or 16 about the time Lion in Winter was released) and I've reading medieval English history ever since :)I admit my mental picture of Henry II is Peter O'Toole.
I came to the Plantagenets via my reading on Richard III. I figured I should learn more about the earlier Plantagenets. I haven't done much reading in this area yet though so I'm very glad that this group has been resurrected.
Mod
Hi Folks! I've been a member for a while and happy to see this renewed burst of activity. I became interested in the Plantagenets because of my interest in Robin Hood. Thoroughly enjoyed Costain's books and I'm presently reading Penman's Richard novels. Her books are terrific. Only discovered her recently. (I'm behind the times.) Read and enjoyed Cruel As the Grave and it made me want to read more.
Mod
Full disclosure, I used to watch the TV series starring Richard Greene when I was little in the 50s.
"Robin Hood, Robin Hood
Riding through the glen.
Robin Hood, Robin Hood,
With his band of men.
Feared by the bad,
Loved by the good,
Robin Hood, Robin Hood,
Robin Hood!"
My idea of what girls can do came from Maid Marian in her tights with her bow and arrows riding right along with the Merrie Men. This was before "Charlie's Angels" made it ok for girls to run, shoot, and ride. I was really disappointed in Olivia DeHaviland's wimpy Maid.
Glad to have Robin join our Band!
Mod
Hi all - I came to the Plantagenets by way of historical research on the Third Crusade, which spread to reading Penman's Here Be Dragons, Chadwick's The Greatest Knight, and biographies of Eleanor, Henry, Richard I, and John. I've missed some of the books you've mentioned, and do want to learn more about all Plantagenets. Time is the problem!
Mod
Portia wrote: "Welcome back, G.K.! And thank you for the information on your Robin Hood Series in What's On Offer. I am definitely checking them out.Full disclosure, I used to watch the TV series starring Richa..."
Thanks for checking out my stories. You'll see the influence from that show. Richard Greene's TV Robin Hood is my all time favorite. Probably the first adventure show I watched in childhood. A strong Marian as each of the two actresses portrayed is absolutely key to what I consider to be the definitive Robin Hood story.
Mod
Kevin Costner is a terrific actor. I enjoy his films. Not a big fan of his Robin Hood film.
Mod
Portia wrote: "It's not mine, either, but now that we are talking about it, I am reminded that Coster featured Morgan Freeman and Alan Rickman, so he gave us the chance to enjoy the performances of those two marv..."They were excellent!
I agree--some of my all-time favorite actors in that film including Freeman and Rickman (born to play the sheriff). I don't know why it doesn't work for me. Just didn't ring true somehow.A lot of people didn't like Russell Crowe's film, but I thought it was terrific. It had historical inaccuracies such as the timings of French invasion and the Magna Charta, but historical personages were well written and performed. I lean toward keeping certain elements of the old ballads tempered by the Victorian and early 40's versions, but thought the story and personalities were true to the spirit of those older tales. Liked it that Robin wasn't a disinherited knight or baron though--where I part company with the old adventure books. And it was great to see William Marshal worked into the legend for what I think is the first time. Wish they'd make the next one.
Mod
Has anyone watched the TV series from the 1980s called "Robin of Sherwood" and starring Michael Praed? I knew people who liked it a lot but I only watched it if there was nothing else on.
Searching for that reference made me realize the Sherwood crowd is much more popular than I knew.
I came to the Plantaganets through Shakespeare. Henry IV and Henry V are two of my favorite plays. However, I suppose I really got interested after reading a book by Anne Easter Smith about Cecily Neville called Queen by Right. That got me hooked on the Wars of the Roses. I would say I'm the type of reader who prefers historical fiction to try to say as close to the real history as possible. I guess I personally find it so fascinating that I don't usually understand the reasoning behind changing it. Nor do I like the biographer who begins with an agenda to portray an individual as either evil or angelic, and only looks at that history which supports their narrative. The best example for this is Richard III. He's either the evil uncle who murdered the Princes, with his wife, Henry VI, and Edward of Westminster as well, thrown in for good measure. Or he'll be the perfect rinse, who was just the victim of the machinations of others. I personally find both theories distasteful.
I started loving all of them after reading Dan Jones 'The Plantaganets', and I can't remember the last book I read that didn't have something to do with them in one way or another!
Welcome AmiOur local Shakespeare Festival is putting on Henry V this year - I'll going down to catch it next month. This is the forth year of them putting on the history plays in order. The last two years have been the Henry IVs. The catch is that they have the same actors playing the major roles each year. This will be the 3rd yr the gentleman playing Henry is performing the role.
Being an old soldier, I admit the Band of Brothers speech always sends a thrill up my spine:)
That's excellent that they use the same actors! I enjoyed the first Hollow crown Series
Oops! As I was saying...I enjoyed the first Hollow Crown Series which did Richard II and the Henriad plays. For anyone not familiar with the stories I imagine it was much easier to follow with same actors. Not sure if you've had a chance to see the second series, but they just put out Henry VI and Richard III, though they condensed Henry VI quite a bit. All of those plays are harder for me to enjoy because the history is so off! But then I suppose Shakespeare had to keep the Queen happy and not make her direct ancestors look too bad!
Mod
Our local Shakespeare Festival is putting on Henry V this year - I'll going down to catch it next month. This is the forth year of them putting on the history plays in order. The last ..."
I'm in Helena this summer and they're doing Richard III in the park on August 9th. I'm planning on seeing it for the first time and I know it will kill me to see how Richard is portrayed. But since it's a classic and EVERYONE talks about it, I think I must attend.
I admit, it's a difficult one for me to watch, because I certainly don't believe Richard to be the villain he's made to be in the play. However, that being said, if you can put aside your knowledge of the real history, and they have a strong actor portraying him, it's really a phenomenal piece! Benedict Cumberbatch just played him in the second Hollow Crown series, and I thought he was magnificent! And with Judi Dench as Cecily Neville...wow!
Mod
I would like to see Judi Dench as Cecily Nevile! Not who I would think to cast ... but she's terrific!
Ami wrote: "I admit, it's a difficult one for me to watch, because I certainly don't believe Richard to be the villain he's made to be in the play. However, that being said, if you can put aside your knowledge..."I feel much the same way. Pretty much skipped it in class, too.
The Plantagenets
Books mentioned in this topic
Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings (other topics)Young Bess (other topics)
Katherine (other topics)
The Last Unicorn (other topics)
The Conquering Family (other topics)
More...
Following the lead of other successful restarts, I've set up this thread for all of us to comment on our interests and experiences with the Plantagenet Family (both fictionally and non-), in English history, in history in general.
I'd also love to hear what you, as members, think would be helpful to you, of interest to you, in reviving this group.
I will begin by admitting that my first interest in in Richard III happened three decades ago when I read The Daughter of Time; that I'm not sure how many times I've seen the play "Richard III;" and that a trip to Leiscester is on my bucket list.
I am very much looking forward to learning from all of you and I hope I can share something from myself to you.
So, please give this some thought and write back when you have time.
Best from
Portia Bell