Once and always Judith McNaught

[Ireland]

Once and Always

I want to buy this book but I want to ask if the recent edition has been sanitized? I want the bodice ripper one. Please let me know if this book has been cleaned up and removed the rape scene and bodice rippers characteristics from it. If so please let me know which edition has bodice ripper elements and where to but it. I checked amazon but it doesn't say which edition or is being sold for the used ones. Let me know!

[BlackSheep]

It has been a long, long time since I last read this book .... More than 20yrs ago.....and it was an old paperback that I still have in my posssession!

Apologies if my memory is faulty, but I dont recall any hardcore BR scenes or rape incidents. In my younger days, the minute I came across a rape scene, the book was a DNF.

I dont know if the recent edition has been sanitized but there wasnt much to sanitize To begin with, I think.

Just go ahead and get it. It was one of my favorite JM books. All her early work were fantastic. The last few books that she wrote were abit dissappointing

[Ireland]

My library has the current edition but I didn't want to read a sanitized one. I guess I will read the one the library has and find out. Thanks for the input

[JennyG]

I believe JM only rewrote Whitney, My Love.

[Ireland]

I know she wrote Whitney, My Love it still
Was a good boo, even the rewritten Verison had the heroine wear chains.

[BRNTerri]

No, the recent version hasn't been changed, that I know of. I don't believe that book is a bodice ripper.

[Ireland]

I hope so the library just let me know it's on hold for me to pick up. I'll see if it had any bodice ripper elements.

[Jeff]

Ireland wrote: "Once and Always

I want to buy this book but I want to ask if the recent edition has been sanitized? I want the bodice ripper one. Please let me know if this book has been cleaned up ..."

Ireland wrote: "Once and Always

I want to buy this book but I want to ask if the recent edition has been sanitized? I want the bodice ripper one. Please let me know if this book has been cleaned up ..."

Hi Ireland.
I just wanted to write an observation. When it concerns the bodice ripper romance novel sub-genre, women seem to be split into two groups. One group enjoys reading bodice ripper novels as is, with no editing, censorship, or redaction. The other group likes reading the bodice ripper paperbacks without the bodice ripper elements and some would prefer a 'sanitized' version, as you say, or an edited one. But it does seem puzzling because once a bodice ripper is no longer a bodice ripper then wouldn't it just become a regular historical romance novel? My impression is the first group of women readers love the excitement, danger, thrill, and the sexual elements of the historical bodice ripper romance novel while the second group may appreciate the danger and thrill but don't want the sexual elements included. Is that so? Sincerely, Jeff

[Ireland]

I think that women who like books with bodice ripper elements is that it represents sexual freedom and liberation. You have to consider the freedom of female sexuality has been only in existence for a couple of years now. And even in the times now there is still some form of female sexuality repression in the form of whore shaming. So I think that bodice rippers show a certain representation of women finding their own sexuality and what it means to be a woman. The second group of women who like the thrill and excitement of romance books without the rape or harsh styles are the ones who want the sexual freedom and representation of female sexuality but in a way that it conforms to their sense of woman's rights and equality. So for the second group there has to be a balance of thrill and respecting the modern view of women's right. However women in the second group often need to remember that the historical period that the book's setting is, and often does not have women's rights yet. So I find it hypocritical when women demand woman's rights that are not fitting of the time period. If a woman wants that, they should read contemporary novels. But again, it could be difficult if the women want some restraint in sexuality such as monogamy or chivalry that might be hard to find in contemporary novels because often more times than not in contempary novels there are affairs, multiple partners and other forms of eroticism that would not be appealing. So I think that the historical romance genre should strive to create books that satisfies all categories but unfortunately, many authors now avoid bodice ripper elements, which is unfortunate for the reasons I mentioned above; showing sexual liberation and freedom in a romantic way.

[Jeff]

Ireland wrote: "I think that women who like books with bodice ripper elements is that it represents sexual freedom and liberation. You have to consider the freedom of female sexuality has been only in existence fo..."

Hi, Ireland.
Thanks for responding. You're erudite, educated, and well-balanced with perspective. You're pragmatic and honest about what it is that makes a woman passionate. I agree. Our society has been hypocritical with women to date. It is okay for men to experience sexual fulfilment but not women. Maybe it is a hold-over from Puritan times and the Victorian Era. I do my best to understand that women are humans who have human needs. You see, that is the problem with many of us men and even some women; we don't acknowledge that women are 'human'. Either we place them on a pedestal with unrealistic expectations, or we lower them with restrictive behavioral mores and values that also equate to unrealistic expectations. You and I have discretely skirted the underlying passion behind historical bodice ripper romance novels. Yet you demonstrate maturity and clear thinking so I feel we can discuss it as adults. It's still a taboo subject and even women don't quite understand the passion. As actress Dana Delaney said to an interviewer, "Don't try to understand us (women) because we don't understand ourselves." And over the past many years, I've been confidentially told by several female acquaintances...that they harbor rape fantasies. But what people don't understand is these fantasies are in a sexual framework of thrill, danger, sexual liberation, fantasy, fulfilment, and the fantasy of sex without guilt. The typical passionate women who fantasizes about rape has no desire to experience the ugly, violent, rape crime; she fantasizes that her beauty, femininity, sexuality, and womanhood are so overwhelming that she can cause men to alter their behavior, and to do something bad, overpower her and give her pleasure unasked for. Women don't know why they think of these fantasies but they do. So I say that we should not criticize or judge women for their sexuality. I've spoken discretely to these acquaintances and I've read some bodice ripper novels. I always assumed women's bodice ripper fantasies were about some moody, bad boy hunk overpowering a woman who already feels some degree of sexual attraction for him. But I was astonished to learn I was naïve. These fantasies delved far into the 'real' rape scenario. Read my review on Donna Comeaux Zide's bodice ripper, Savage In Silk. Then go further back and read the reputedly first bodice ripper, Love's Savage Fury. One of my acquaintances told me that she personally knows a young woman who usually needs to fantasize about rape while making love to her lover in order to climax. Too much information? Probably. Another young woman told me her fantasy was being pursued by pirates. I'm trying to wrap my mind around these rough fantasies as I promised to be understanding. But the idea of unwashed, unshaven men with poor dental hygiene chasing down women, overpowering them, stripping them, and then sexing them into an orgasm is still not totally comprehensible to my tolerant mind. Yet, she was not alone. Prolific writer, Graham Masterton, in one of his books on female sexuality interviewed women's fantasies which included a 34-year old Seattle teacher fantasizing about being grabbed and forced into a dirty men's restroom in a park, handcuffed to the filthy urinals, and then, well, you know. My point is, this goes on far deeper than most people would know and I say it's alright. But as you and I know, society is still not totally ready and is uncomfortable with total female sexual liberation, even by feminists themselves because political incorrectness is part of it and to admit that such fantasies are part of women's sexuality is taboo and politically incorrect. I feel sorry for women, ultimately. You want, desire, and need genuine, total sexual liberation and fulfilment. But in the end, it is women themselves who will prevent that from happening. Thanks for tolerating me being long-winded. Jeff

[KatieV]

Jeff wrote: "I've read some bodice ripper novels. I always assumed women's bodice ripper fantasies were about some moody, bad boy hunk overpowering a woman who already feels some degree of sexual attraction for him. But I was astonished to learn I was naïve. These fantasies delved far into the 'real' rape scenario.

There's a huge range of what many call bodice rippers and women's tolerance for the subject matter. For me, I prefer the "moody, bad boy hunk overpowering a woman who already feels some degree of sexual attraction for him". I tend to avoid the ones where the heroine is attacked by someone other than the book's hero. I think it depends on the reader, but the more harsh BRs where the heroine is brutally raped by villains are often enjoyed because the reader wants to see how the heroine overcomes this treatment or how the hero reacts
to the incident, not necessarily because they find it arousing. I've seen plenty of requests for books wanting a scenario where the hero takes care of a heroine after such an ordeal and possibly goes on a slaughtering spree against the offender(s). Kind of a caretaking/knight in shining armor fantasy.

There are other readers who simply find it gripping in the way that I find something like The Walking Dead exciting - for the sheer horrifying drama of it all. It gets the blood pumping to watch all that craziness, but doesn't mean I want to live through the things the characters experience. I actually mourn with the characters, chewing my nails and rooting for them.

There are others who likely find it sexually stimulating. It's like any kink/fetish, some are turned on by it, some aren't, and others are horrified. Sexuality is vastly complex. As I'm sure you are aware, there is a big difference between fantasy and what people want in real life. That disconnect is what makes society uncomfortable with the rape fantasy. There is a fear that these types of books will give the impression that all women want to be raped and promote a "she wanted it" type of rape culture.

[Jeff]

KatieV wrote: "Jeff wrote: "I've read some bodice ripper novels. I always assumed women's bodice ripper fantasies were about some moody, bad boy hunk overpowering a woman who already feels some degree of sexual a..."

Good, intelligent, feedback, Katie. All your points make sense. For the intelligent, responsible man out there, we men need to acknowledge there's a difference in a woman's mind between fantasy and reality. I wish to be a 21st century man who knows better and accepts women have their own distinct sexuality apart from that of men, and there should never be a, 'she wanted it' culture. And as you said, everyone (man & woman) can have their own kink or fetish. Look at, 50 Shades of Grey. That's total kink but not my cup of tea. Well done. Jeff

[Tracyk]

For me I prefer the bodice-ripper where the heroine is attracted to the hero, sexual as well. I like the hero to be strong domineering & masterful BUT not abusive. Some authors do this very well, other not so.

I don't mind the odd rape scene it all depends on how it's written, I do prefer forced seduction when the hero knows the heroine wants to and needs pursuading rather than out & out rape. I don't mind mind if the heroine has been raped by a villain as long as he ends up in the grave!