Questions about CON and DH series. *Malachai* (SZ)

[Katelyn]

In Chronicles of Nick do you think that this was actually Dark Hunter Nick's actual life in the Dark Hunter series? But then all of a sudden his memories get erased and he forgets that he's supposed to stay away from Simi? He forgets he had Caleb and Kody and all of these other guys as friends?

Or is this Nick a completely different Nick...that didn't live the life Ambrose Nick lived?

Also if you were to be honest with yourself....no matter how painful it is. Do you vote:

a) A happily ever after...even with Nick being the Malachi and all

b) Sad ever after where the horrors that Kody saw before coming back into the past to kill the Malachai....actually end up coming true.

If your answer is A then can you give any reasons why you feels your answer is likely?

B doesn't need to be justified....because there is a crap tonne of evidence pointing to B, and not much pointing to a.

Personally I'm going with B. It breaks my heart....but I still can't figure out an alternative.

Unless Savitar is the person who changes everything upside down, and turns the t-shirt inside out....and ends up being one of the causes of the happy ending. Sherri did say his story would be outstanding and unique.

[Priscilla]

Savitar is the only one that can do that and it's for a price. But I don't really see that happening. Savitar is the type to say that is how life is with both the happy, sad, and bad.

[K-Gorgeous]

I personally am sure that 'A' will eventually com about.
Because if you have read Dragonbane you see that Nick is pretty much in control of his Malachai form. There are more changes to come I do ofcourse hope that in the end Nick will be able to break the Malachai Curse. I Honestly see his book being one of the very last ones.

[Marie]

I'm not sure what happened between the event of CON and DH. His memories might have been erased, but then, why would Simi hook up with him? She would know him from before and I don't think she would have sex with the amnesiac friend who doesn't remember the love of his life (Kody). Unless Kody was believed to be dead and THAT'S why his memories were erased. Maybe someone changed his memories because he was about to lose his mind after her death. Or maybe he asked to have his memories removed because Kody was dead and forgetting everything would at least buy his mother a few more years.

The other theory I have has to do with the moment in DH where Ash found out someone was tampering with the time sequence. The reason he was so worried was because his wife's past was changing I think. Her father lived longer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any changes to Tory's childhood have happened waaay before the beginning of the CON series? So I think that Nick, in CON, will try to reset what Ambrose changed at some point , and will have to go further back in time to do it. That would explain why, not only does Nick not remember Simi, but she doesn't remember him either. And because the Malachai can sense when someone tampers with the past, it's only AFTER he became a dark hunter that his memories of that other life started coming back. He didn't have his powers before that.

[Cindi]

My brain hurts...

[Myst]

Well Tory's dad died some time between Aug 1987 and 1996 when Dream Hunter takes place. Nick was born in 1986? So Nick would've been 1-10 years old when possible time fluxes may have started...could the time flux have started when Nick took his dads powers?

[Marie]

Myst wrote: "Well Tory's dad died some time between Aug 1987 and 1996 when Dream Hunter takes place. Nick was born in 1986? So Nick would've been 1-10 years old when possible time fluxes may have started...coul..."

Nick was born in 1982 and met Kyrian in 1996, at fourteen. I seem to remeber Ash knowing that the time sequence started changing in 1996, but I'm not sure because I can't remember in which book he learns about it.

Dream Hunter is Arik and Delphine's book, right? With Madoc popping up all over the place? Because he met Nick in that one, and Nick was 18. (although the author has said that sometimes characters can be mistaken about someone's age in a book because real people are that way too)

I still think it's freakin' weird that , of all of Nick/Ambrose's meddling, somehow, the thing that gets them noticed in the present is allowing Tory's dad to live longer. By the way, how did he die originally? I want to try figuring out what Nick might be doing (or what he will do) to change that.

[Charlotte, Cheesy Cakes]

Actually, Dream Hunter is Arik and Geary's book (Geary is Tory's cousin). Delphine was the heroine of Dream Warrior. =)

If I remember correctly, Tory's father originally drowned to death, around 1987.

I still find it interesting that teenage Tory is basically a slob, while adult Tory is a neat freak to the point of OCD. It could be that she grew into it naturally ... or it could be that the few extra years with her father had a major impact on her. At any rate, assuming that Tory's DOB remains the same ... interesting, is it not, that her father dying when she was ten, would have been around the time that Adarian should have died? Especially when you consider that Tory and CON Nick are presumably about the same age ...

I'm probably making something out of nothing, but those are the details I noticed.

[Marie]

I checked some things to clarify our calculations:

- In STYXX, Ash learn that somewhere between 1996 and 2008, the time sequence was tampered with because the date Tory's father died changed.
- In DREAM HUNTER, set in 1996, Tory is 15 and her father died when she was six.
- In ACHERON, we learn that Tory's father died when she was 10.
- So, Tory was born in 1981.
- And Tory's father died in 1987 originally, before that changed to 1991.


Since we're pretty that Nick/Ambrose, the Arelim and Cyprian are collectively screwing up the past, here are some more facts so we can figure out how they are doing that:

- Nick was born in 1982, as per his character profile.
- In INFINITY, Nick is 14 when he meets Kyrian and Ambrose, which places the beginning of time sequence tampering in 1996
- In the original timeline, Nick's father died when he was 12, in 1994.
- After Nick's death, Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005.
- Nick comes back from Savitar's Island in 2006, ALMOST two years after his death

Ok, clearly something is wrong since If Nick truly did die at the age of 24, then it would have happened AFTER Katrina, which is the single most reliable indicator of time in my opinion.

Mostly though, I'm a little confused as to how something that happened between 1996 and 2008 could have changed something that happened in 1987. Theron drowned in Greece, didn't he? Close to some site Tory wanted in dig in Dream Hunter. Whoever ended up saving him must have been looking for something at that site. Something that was removed before Tory could get to it in 2008 and Acheron could get it from her like he got Ryssa's diaries. (I'm basing this on the assumption that the 1996 site Geary and Tory wanted to dig is the same as the one Tory DID look through in 2008, which included artefacts of Atlantis)

[Misty]

And this is the reason I'm sometime considering stopping reading CON until it's over, in 6 or so years. It's damn frustrating trying to figure this all out, since things change from book to book!

[Adam]

Its the butterfly effect. Something that changes in the past impacts on everything. We have an entire universe of people that have the ability to travel back in time, there's no telling who caused all of this originally. Ambrose or Cyprian could have done it with one of his earlier attempts to change everything for all we know, we just haven't been told about it yet.

We've also been told that CoN is Nicks true timeline and back story. I'm pretty sure in Night Pleasures we're told that Adarian died when Nick was 10 and the common theme seems to be the older Malachai dies when his son and heir is 10. I'm sure I've read that somewhere.

And in 2008 Tory found Didymos which is why she would have found Ryssa's diary, as we know Ryssa only went to Atlantis once and that was to steal Ash away from Estes. In 1996 Geary found Atlantis and came dangerously close to releasing Apollymi.

Just some ideas.

[Marie]

So the site Tory dug up was not the same as the one she wanted to dig up in 1996 with Geary?

[Charlotte, Cheesy Cakes]

Tory did dig up Atlantis, but she also found Didymos nearby.

In Ash's book, Tory states the following at her first lecture:

"This past summer I was finally able to find definitive proof that Atlantis was real and that Megeara's research finally uncovered it."(Kindle, 58%)

A few paragraphs later, Tory then states:

"Now here is a sister site we found that we believe to be a Greek island which traded frequently with Atlantis. I found a piece of stone with the name Didymos etched into it." (Kindle, 58%)

[Marie]

Any way to find out at which site Theron died? Oh well, it's not that important. My point is that I think there was something at one of the site that, if discovered by Theron, would changed the course of events that led to what we know now in DH. In order for a bunch of things to happen as they did, Theron had to die. Either it would delay the discovery enough to maintain the timeline, or it stopped the discovery entirely. But if SOMEONE were to go back in time and remove the reason Theron had to die in the first place, then he would live longer. The only think his death really did, as far as I can tell, is delay the digging and keep Atlantis' existence a secret. (One could argue that his death made Tory even more obsessed with finding Atlantis, but she most likely would have ended up just as obsessed with her father alive and indoctrinating her with all sorts of Atlantis related rambling). Theron's death changing would have had no impact on her future meeting of Acheron or the events that led to it (meaning, the digs )

[Charlotte, Cheesy Cakes]

Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that Theron's death was deliberate, so I'm in agreement with you on that point, Marie.

After all, Artemis herself tried to stop Tory via the Atlantikoinia (a group dedicated to ensuring that Atlantis was not found. And in Dream Hunter, she tried to stop Megeara's group by having the boat blown up.

[Marie]

Is anybody reading the LOA series? In Infamous, Cherise said she named Nick after Ambrosius Aurelianus, a mythological king who gets confused with King Arthur and Merlin. "king of all kings" sounds an awful lot like Nick's role as Uma-sarru. And he was thought to be a sorcerer who protected his people and united a nation. Nick is uniting a lot of weird folks: aamon demons, jaden, xev, hellhounds, hellchasers, arelim... the similarities are disturbing and I wonder if Ambrosius Aurelianus might have been one of his past lives. Is he mentioned at all in the LOA series?

[Charlotte, Cheesy Cakes]

It's been a little while since I've read the two LOA books, but I don't remember seeing an Ambrosius Aurelianus anywhere. I'd have to double check and see if he's even mentioned at all. (btw, LOA takes place after the big battle between Arthur and Morgen le Fey.)

But those similarities between Nick and Ambrosius are certainly fascinating. =)

EDIT: Nope, no mention of Ambrosius anywhere in either book.

[Marie]

It sounds like one of those things where reincarnated people live similar lives from lifetime to lifetime. Like Cadegan and the welsh prince. Or Aricles and Styxx. Patterns tend to repeat when reincarnated souls are involved

[Marie]

Hiiiii! I'm full of questions these days!

I would just like something cleared up for me. I have a hard time understanding the type of POV used in premonitions. It's mainly a problem in CON, because both the person in the vision and the person having the vision are (supposedly) the same: Nick.

Let me explain. Here are the types of POV that I see as possible in this case and how it impacts how we interpret some things as readers:

- We are reading the visions of the future as it is being seen and interpreted through the eyes of the person having the vision. In which case, everything we experience is told through the filter of Nick, as he interprets the events around him. Nick is a narrator/bystander. the POV is subjective and we, as readers, are free to interpret things differently. (view spoiler)[ implication: the Malachai acting crazy might actually be Cyprian, which Nick didn't know about when he had the vision (hide spoiler)]

- We are reading the visions of the future as they are felt and experienced by the person in the vision. It's like a regular change in POV, like when Kody, Caleb or Adarian was the narrator in CON. We know every thought and feeling that person has, but Nick (having the vision) doesn't necessarily know as much as us. He is again a bystander, but not a narrator. Events are filtered through whoever is talking to us, but things like the state of mind, thoughts or feelings of the narrator can't be interpreted differently. (view spoiler)[ implication: if the narrator of the vision identifies himself as "Nick", then it is Nick, because he's hardly going to lie to himself in his own mind (hide spoiler)]

- We are told the story through Nick, as he experiences the vision through the mind and eyes of whoever lives it. In which case, Nick is privy to the thoughts and feelings of the person he is basically possessing. It's a combination of the last two, where events can be interpreted differently, but certain facts coming from the mind of the person in the vision are necessarily the truth for the same reason as before.(view spoiler)[ implication: If the crazy killer Malachai is identified as "Nick", it's because the narrator, Nick, fact-checked that from the mind of the vision-person (who ,again, would hardly be lying to himself about that) (hide spoiler)]