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That's definitely the message of commercials, but I think there's a parallel cultural shift going on because people are living longer, including actors. Now there are movies about it: "The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel," "The Quartet," and "A Walk in the Woods" to name a few. These older actors are still out there working, and their appeal is to audiences of their age.
Another thing I want to add is that touring retirement homes with my Mom parallels the tour of college campuses we did way back when. In both cases, you shell out a lot of money, but you don't really know what it's going to be like until you actually try living there.
I'm not sure why Marigold wasn't well received. I liked it, but then again I find younger people to be incredibly tedious to talk to sometimes. There is so much angst still, so much pressure to keep up some sort of stupid appearances that I couldn't care less about, and in general it seems that the elderly I talk to have figured out what is important in life: family (be it DNA or chosen one), friends, laughter, shared experiences, togetherness. All the consumerist nonsense makes me so tired, and sometimes I wish I could go live in a cabin away from the world. I guess it is easier to relate to the old folks, because life has treated me so harshly at times that it is like I grew up too soon, and I don't see the wisdom I need in people my age or my parents' age, but that depth in their eyes speaks to my soul in a profound way. It's not that I'm tired of living per se, but somehow I know what that exhaustion feels like. Maybe seen too much.Watching my grandmother with Alzheimer's fade away is one of the worst experiences of my life. I don't wish it upon my worst enemy. So sorry others have to go through it.
Aglaea wrote: "IWatching my grandmother with Alzheimer's fade away is one of the worst experiences of my life. I don't wish it upon my worst enemy. So sorry others have to go through it."It's an epidemic! Medical science has extended our lives, so we're going to see more and more of it. Have you seen the documentary film "Alive Inside?" It's phenomenal! It's about how music can pull Alzheimer's patients back from the abyss.
Kressel wrote: "Aglaea wrote: "IWatching my grandmother with Alzheimer's fade away is one of the worst experiences of my life. I don't wish it upon my worst enemy. So sorry others have to go through it."It's an ..."
No I haven't seen that one, but I know they are doing music therapy here in some elderly homes. It's a great idea.
Others, in Sweden I think, also have introduced kindergarten-age kids' visits, which brighten everyone's day. Here, if I recall correctly, they've done a trial with fusing actual kindergarten with elderly home. I should bookmark articles when I find them...
well, i'm one of the ageless aging in this community, gonna be 69 this year, and have been blessed for much of my adult life to look younger, by 15 or so years. i remember, back in the day, seeing women in their 30's who looked 'old' to me, and i swore to myself that i never wanted to look like that. i realized eventually, that those were women whose spirit had been beaten down somehow (my spirit remains firmly at 27! lol!!!) and the 'old' look they wore was merely a representation of how they felt about the life they were living, and themselves in the midst of that life. i've also seen older women (in actual years) who try too hard to look young, and it isn't a good look on them, either. (i don't mean to be judgmental, just speaking in the vein of this recent phenomenon of women desperately wanting to 'look' young). what i've ultimately discovered is that the most beautiful women are young in spirit, keep a twinkle in their eyes, might be a bit bawdy sometimes, laugh out loud, continue to learn, and continue fighting for a good life for themselves and others. 'young at heart' is a wonderful song, and so true. what is portrayed in the media and by advertisers is another game organized and owned by the rich who keep getting richer at the expense of someone's self esteem. it's a tough battle to go against this flow of having to look young. due to illness, i'm looking my age now, but i can still say 'fuck' with the best of them, enjoy myself, laugh with friends, and family, and occasionally even dance - god bless rock 'n' roll!
yeah, i may be looking at a future in a nursing home/assisted living complex, but, so be it. i don't have the money to pay make-up artists, buy the newest trend in beauty treatments, go under the knife (no thank you), and i sure don't have money enough to pay someone to live in and wait on me full time when i'm in need of daily assistance getting to the bathroom. i'm viewing the future, wherever it takes me, as my next great adventure.
with a 27-yr. old spirit, it's old enough to know better, but young enough not to care at times. i'll still open my mouth when others think i should keep it shut, especially to expose a wrongdoing, still wear blue polish on my toes, still wear mismatched earrings just for fun, and still be awed and amazed at the wonder and beauty around me. i just finished writing my first sci-fi novel this year, was first published in a professional journal in my field (therapist/psychology) when i was 60, and realized my dream of 30 years by moving to mexico when i was in my 50's. i also met and married my current husband a year after i was here. looks? i was sick and bloated, but he fell in love with my spirit.
the freedom that comes from life experience is a type of freedom seldom offered to the young! and, it's only available when what's important in life is prioritized. don't get me wrong, i have fun w/ makeup and hairstyles, but my clothes and shoes are now comfortable to live in (my body has earned it!), and i can laugh at myself (sometimes i know i'm too loud or just being a jerk). mostly i indulge in love - it's my true passion. that and flowers and laughing.
no, i won't grow 'old' no matter what the calendar says or what my face and body look like. i love what carrie fisher said after the new 'star wars' movie came out, and people got on her case for 'letting herself go' or some such nonsense. she basically told people that her body hadn't aged as well as she had and that everyone could just 'blow us'. now, that's my kind of woman!
Kressel, thanks for mentioning those wonderful films. Let me also add Sally Field's latest flick: "Hello, My Name is Doris." It's an "indie" film in the US and a fabulous, comedic discourse on the silly notions we all have about aging and "age-appropriate" dating. Also, "45 Years" starring a 70 year old Charlotte Rampling, a brutally honest look back at one woman's marriage and the secrets partners often keep in the most intimate of relationships. These are great films on the merits but all the more extraordinary because they feature 70 year old actors in lead roles.Sandra, thanks for your wonderful wisdom!! Spot on! I don't give a rat's rear about aging per se, advertising that tells women they are ugly by virtue of simple aging etc. We all know that's a crock.
For me, the biggest issue is all the changes the body undergoes: menopause, weight gain, insomnia, decline in energy, muscle/bone mass, chronic aches and pains, etc. Not to be a downer here, but, guess what? These things DO happen with age...LOL. And they caught my eternally 19 year old self/mindset quite by surprise. I just didn't believe all that would happen to me until...well....it HAPPENED!! LOL.
Sandra, loved your comment. It made me think of my otherwise very proper grandmother (the one with Alzheimer's), who at times got these hilarious laughing fits. At that time she was quite frail already, but her whole body shook violently as tears were streaming down her face. Even though she tried to say something, she couldn't but got another attack. It was glorious and one of the most wonderful things about her.One sidetrack of this makes me think about generational differences, because some people like in Kressel's culture become grandmothers in their 40's, whereas others have several decades between them. Mine was born in the 1910's. This in itself can influence how we perceive old age rather differently.
An image pops into my head just now where a knitter in her 70's-80's gets her first tattoo, a picture of a yarn ball with two needles right through. The photo was taken in the tattooist's chair, and she has this beaming smile larger than life. Gorgeous.
I guess what I'm saying is that feminism should be also for old people, who up until now have felt like they haven't been allowed to do certain things. Even though they might not have as many years left as those currently teens, doesn't mean they can't pack a punch of presence and energy into what remains still. And if that energy manifests as something unconventional, "not done at your age", then baha whatever.
On the other hand, none of us knows when we will check out for good, so the way I see it, going out with a bang means living authentically, without fear, every single day. We as feminists need to include for this very reason rather than exclude.
I suppose age really is a function of health. I'd say 69 is one of the best times of life, though I wouldn't have seen it that way until I reached my 40's. 69 is old enough that you have some savings and wisdom of life to know how to spend it wisely, yet young enough to have the energy to fulfill some life-long dreams. I, for one, am always dreaming of graduate school, but I'm still a Mom supporting a family, so I can't afford it. But when I'm retired. . .oh yeah!BTW, when women in my community become grandmothers in their 40's, they're just as active as ever, usually helping out with their grandkids, and often holding down many more hours at work, which they weren't free to do when their own kids were young. When I mentioned the kinds of women who ascend to leadership positions in my community, they're usually grandmothers in their 40's and 50's.
Lots of women around here live to be great-grandmothers and even great-great-grandmothers.
Kressel wrote: "I suppose age really is a function of health. I'd say 69 is one of the best times of life, though I wouldn't have seen it that way until I reached my 40's. 69 is old enough that you have some savin..."I would have loved to have a large family, which is difficult to achieve when there are so many years between generations. I think it's wonderful that one can be a grandmother without having that honourary title begin to "restrict" life in any way, but rather have it enhance it nicely. In my own case, it was like the title created a divide somehow, of before and after, and once after had been reached, the two sets of grandparents were old-old, not just generation-wise old. Hope it makes sense?
I think what I'm trying to say overall is that the bar for aging is much higher than it used to be because people are living longer and more active lives. There's a big difference between 65, 75, and 85. I've seen it with my Mom. Most people work beyond 65; it's more like middle age than old age. To me, old age is when you can't take care of yourself anymore, and that often doesn't happen until the 80's.
Aging is part of life. As hard as it seems, the alternative may be shattering. I lost my mom when she was 60 and I miss her terribly. Although health care is expensive, body decline is a factor, and planning for the future in terms of money right now is important; aside from cash, strengthening relationships in the here-and-now and throughout life is fundamental. Teaching and transpiring love and empathy, having a positive bond with our children, cultivating healthy relationships, and surrounding ourselves with positive and supportive individuals may be the cornerstone to end this journey with a golden key... :-) Happy Friday!
I can't say I know much of this topic, but just today I was pondering on it, and ultimately asserted that aging seems like much worse a thing for women than for men. Generally, I think older women - especially ones without a romantic partner - are generally more unhappy than old men. I personally think this is at least partly because old man have the luxury of thinking "Well, if somehow I can get hold of lots of money, I can still have fun." Case and point: Hugh Hefner. I don't know of any women who live the kind of life Hefner does, but if there are any, I generally don't think women are taught to believe they can achieve the same, whereas men often are.I know I talked about only one particular aspect of life in this post, but generally, I think it's a recurring pattern that men go through life with more long-lasting possibilities (or at least being more enthusiastic about their possibilities) of enjoyment than women.
I also know I'm excluding a lot of people's perfectly happy mothers or grandmothers, but I personally think that, unless you actively want to settle down and have (grand)children, the fuse of fun burns out much faster for women than it does for men. Life today doesn't really give old women many things to enjoy themselves with, other than the families they presumably built up by the time they reach old age. Even for famous old women this seems very much the case to me.
- Marlon Brando was still cast to play the iconic Don Corleone at 50.
- George Carlin could still perform comedy shows at 70 (not to mention the state of his health at the time).
- Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman, both at 70, played an entire film based on two old men having the time of their lives in ways men in their twenties wish they could be doing.
- I already mentioned Hugh Hefner
I just don't see Betty White doing anything of the sort and... well, I don't even know any other old female celebrities, much less ones who can still do exciting, stimulating things.
I hope I'm not making anyone here sad by what I am saying, but Emma's post really made me want to vent this. If you have any feedback, feel free to share it if you wish. In any case, enjoy your young and old selves!
EDIT: I misspelled "Corleone" :d
age is a state of mind, true enough. i went back to college in my 40's, became a therapist and started a brand new career just before i was 50. divorced at 51, i quit my job and ran away from home at 53, on my own, no prospects, just a lot of faith, $6000 in my pocket and a car with 100,000 mi. on it - drove 2300 miles by myself from the midwest to mexico. met a man, got married again at 54, got my first ever psychological paper published in a professional journal at 60, and wrote my first sci-fi novel at 69 (it's in the process of possibly being accepted for publication as we speak). i'll be 70 next year, am in the process of writing another novel. my spirit is 27 - old enough to know better, young enough not to care. my life motto is 'go for it'. as far as i know, you only go around once. i've been places, seen things, done what most people only dream about, live in a foreign country - people have told me i'm too old, but i've ignored them. woman warrior spirit lives no matter what our age! while it's true i'm no celebrity so you won't read about me, however, i exist, and i know there must be others out there as well. as barbra streisand sang 'only can fly once, only can die once.' and i saw carol channing in a broadway play while she was in her 80's as 'dolly', and she was remarkable. you really don't need to feel sorry for us, but thanks for the thought.
That's awesome, Sandra!!! Live long and prosper!!!
That's a grand story indeed. I do apologise if I sounded patronising earlier.
Sandra wrote: "age is a state of mind, true enough. i went back to college in my 40's, became a therapist and started a brand new career just before i was 50. divorced at 51, i quit my job and ran away from home ..."Wow, you really live your life to the fullest!
For sure, the "woman warrior spirit lives no matter what our age". Look at Gloria Steinem, who is 83 and settled down in her 70s.
I'm at university, and only 19 years old, but I've been working in an old-people's home voluntarily from October until July. What I have experienced there is great, I'm not afraid of growing old any more. Sure, I'd rather not be in the state of some of the people I've seen when I hopefully am old myself too, but let's say I'm not afraid anymore, even dementia lost a bit of its frightening aspect.
To see somebody with dementia was difficult for me in the beginning, and I can understand everybody who says they are sad, or anxious about the state of their loved one.
The most shocking for me is that they become children again, in some ways, especially when you've known the person when they were still the person you used to know. Dementia can change a person's personality very much, and also all the abilities they are no longer capable of doing.
It affects both the brain and the body, and sometimes it is cruel to watch them losing their abilities.
Now, my mom is in her 50's, and my dad's in his 40's, and they both are now faced with the first signs of aging. They cope rather well, but it's harder for my dad, because he can't go by biking anymore, really, which he loved doing.
My mom is much into QiGong, and the really great thing about it is that you can do it when you stand, sit, or lie down. So she'll be able to do so for a very long time, maybe until she goes to the other side of the mountain.
She also loves to read and enjoys that I am becoming more and more independent and she can enjoy time without me, helping refugees to learn German or to watch over my younger cousins, to be there for them when they should need an adult and my aunt is busy at work.
Now, my grandparents in their 80's and 70's are still very vital( I thought they weren't but then I've seen the people in the old people's home and that definitely changed my opinion about what "old people" are capable of doing:) )
I'm proud of them because they literally have built a house out of nothing, and have worked on it since they started building it, and are really fond of me (I'm their only grand-child) and I really appreciate that they were living on self-supporting to a big extent for as long as they've been living in that house.
I also see that they can enjoy the victories of feminism (which was so much needed in the 60's and 70's), because Austria really was discriminatory to females.
The concept of aging definitely changed in the 20th century. In the past people said: Oh, he's old when they were 50. A generation later they said: Oh, you can see his age when they were 70.
The physical work changed, so changed the aging process and thus the way age is perceived, although agism is live and well, especially among the young and those who don't work with old people in their profession (and sometimes even there:( )
Wonderful posts to read from all of you!
i just read that being bi-lingual helps to keep alzheimer's and dementia at bay because the brain is being exercised all the time moving back and forth from one language to another. so there's a great reason to learn another language.and congrats to your grandparents. it also sounds like your folks are doing well. i'm not active like i used to be, but it doesn't prevent me from learning or writing, from enjoying hearing birds sing or dancing to some good ol' rock 'n' roll, even if i'm sitting down. nor does it prevent me from laughing out loud on a regular basis.
people grow old in their minds/perspectives first, i believe. the more one is interested in, the more one remains interesting, no matter what the age. keep learning something from everything, and laugh every chance you get - laugh with your eyes, your face, your whole body. and laugh out loud. it can tickle others' funny bones, and what a different world it would be if we could all laugh a lot. it is the best medicine for what ails you after all.
Sandra, they're all doing great for their age. Sure, they need glasses and are having troubles when comes to sounds, but they can live on their own, we sometimes help them when they need a lift, but that's it. Self-determined and with no special need for help.The interesting thing about dementia and learning languages is the fact that you first forget all the "learned" languages - in my case only English yet - but you can still speak in your mother tongue. So translators always come in handy for that.
Being interested is definitely a pro, but not just for Alzheimer's, also in general.
Tremendous, the subjects one finds in that forum! I rarely post, but read a lot. Aging is not a popular subject, and when it began to happen to me, I just couldn't believe it. Of course that's stupid - but did someone ever talk to you about how it feels to age? And that's maybe just why it seems just something bad and unavoidable. What Tim weites about aging for women reflects pretty much what a lot of people think. And as what you think has a powerful influence in how you feel and act, it can become a self-fullfilling prophecy.
I have the luck to have been able to make choices, and I sometimes did so with no insurance as to their succeess, took risks. I certainly have less energy than 10 years ago, but I have never felt as free and easy in my life as I am feeling now.
What I see around me is a lot of women who have been crushed by heavy responsibilities (mostly for their families - siblings, parents) without any reward, neither thanks nor praise- let alone money. I am not even talking of raising own children, who are a reward by themselves.
Women are too much used to take more care of others than themselves, are often forced to do so from young age on. Aging gave me the right to look more after myself. Which I had before of course, but didn't do enough.
My wife and I (both in our 70s) have discovered "alternative medicine with anti-aging specialties". The woman we found is magnificent at handling data and tests. The data outpouring was extensive and specific. It led to supplements which are either continuing or short term depending upon type and need. Each of us has different issues. The process has been ongoing (two visits for each of us) and we are already seeing clear benefits related to energy, focus and many issues of personal health. The down side is that much of it is not covered by insurance. If it interests you, googling alternative medicine providers in your area along with anti-aging specialists should provide you with resources.
"What i've ultimately discovered is that the most beautiful women are young in spirit, keep a twinkle in their eyes, might be a bit bawdy sometimes, laugh out loud, continue to learn, and continue fighting for a good life for themselves and others."This is so good! Thank you Sandra
Sup y'all! In addition to the young in spirit mentality, I think it's worth point out how much an active and healthy lifestyle can also reduce or reverse the effects of aging. Find physical activities you enjoy; yoga or running, hiking or gardening, lifting or dancing. Practice them often. Eat healthy. Drink lots of water.These small changes in habit can really change how your body and mind react to aging and how long you'll be aging for! :)
by the by, i've also been married 3 times, raised 2 daughters to be independent and follow their own dreams no matter what their age. life, at any age, is an evolving process, and an unknown adventure. you know what you've done, but you don't know what you can do till you keep moving forward, and that takes time, which means aging. when we're young, we often think we're in the midst of the time of our lives. perhaps. but keep that door of opportunity ready to open no matter what your age. you just never know . . .
Ageism is a new issue; people are living longer, so there is a new range for "middle-age". Many people who are older and working past the average retirement age are asked to leave their jobs because they are "too old".
Samantha wrote: "Ageism is a new issue; people are living longer, so there is a new range for "middle-age". Many people who are older and working past the average retirement age are asked to leave their jobs becaus..."People getting older and older definitely fuels such comments, which is really sad, because they miss the knowledge that only "old people" have.
But I think ageism per se is deeply ingrained in society.
In Austria, we have a saying, that I really hate: "You belong to old iron." Meaning you're of no real worth anymore.
I've got more to say, but it will have to wait.