The Iliad (800 - 750 BCE) - #2

[Kenia]

The Iliad was never originally a written poem, but an oral legend spoken from memory (can you imagine having such a robust memory?). It was performed orally for an audience, in a poetic language that was very different from everyday Greek of the time, and allowed for improvisation (which means there isn’t an exact original version). It is believed that the poem was altered and refined much over time, and as it was committed to writing. We can place its development to roughly 800 BCE – 750 BCE.

[Kenia]

So I'm re-"reading" The Iliad now, via audio. I generally don't do well listening to audiobooks, but since I read this before already, it's actually going very well so far.

Cleo was asking about my 3-star rating:

I tend to go by GoodRead's definitions, and 3 stars isn't a bad thing in my book as it means "I liked it." I didn't give it a 4-star "I really liked it" rating simply because it was soooo long and after a while I kept picking it up reluctantly and wanting it to be over.
I think The Iliad is incredible--in terms of the story, the prose, the characters, and the mythical lineages...it's all so fascinating. But...after a while I was ready to move on.

I felt the battle scenes could have been shorter than they were, even though I understand that Homer is illustrating the details of war. I think this could still have been done effectively with less.

And the way that I *personally* rate things, it's by 1) the literary merit (was the writing good, are the characters complex, is this literature vs. "lower" commercial fiction, and what is the **education** that one inherently receives from reading such a work--this is especially applicable to the classics), and 2) my emotions toward the work (was it hard to put down, did I look forward to reading it or was I ready for it to be over, did I feel genuine enjoyment when reading it, etc.).

So it's not an objective system, but those are the two things I weigh. Generally, classics have such high literary merit that I will never rate them less than a 3, even if I struggled with it or I didn't find it that enjoyable. If a classic gets lower than a 3 from me, then I must've really thought something terrible about it, hahaha. There can be commercial fiction that I just emotionally loved so so much, that I will rate it high, even if it's literary attributes are low. I refrain from 5s as much as possible--which means if I give a book a 5 I'm not being nice, it's because I really, really loved it (GoodRead's definition for 5 is "it was amazing!")

But, in general, a 3 in my book is good. It's not great, but it's not bad either--it's good.

The Odyssey, on the other hand, I enjoyed much more, and it got a 4-star rating from me.
...but again, unless I'm feeling OMG-I-CanNOT-wait-to-keep-reading-and-I-will-lose-so-much-sleep-staying-up-late-to-read-this, it doesn't get a 5 from me. Period.

How did you all rate The Iliad? What personal rating system do you use here on GoodReads?

[Cleo]

Thanks for explaining your review process. One of the reasons I dislike reviews is that they're so subjective. One person rates one way and another another and it's hard to compare.

For example, an un-put-downable book for me, generally won't get a 5 star rating. It's the ones that take hard work to get the treasures out of them and then the realization that I need a second or third reading to glean even more. The Iliad was one of those books for me, and to a lesser extent The Odyssey.

With the Iliad, I really had to put myself in a Greek mind-set. The copious amounts of names overwhelmed me at first, but then I realized how important ancestors and family heritage were to the Greeks. Each name had honour attached to it and when I read it that way, I gain a whole new appreciation for it.

The battle scenes were certainly plentiful but they often conveyed more than just fighting. There were certain formalities observed that pointed back to Greek culture, and not only that, the respect shown at times to rivals was very telling. And didn't you think it fascinating that Homer himself appeared to show an appreciation for both sides?

The poetry itself was part of the story; even the sounds of the words were meant to mimic what was occurring in the poem. If you don't have a good translation, it's harder to tell, but what Homer did with his verse is quite amazing.

Personally, I expected to hate it with all the carnage and battles, but I ended up loving it even more than The Odyssey and gave it 5 stars.

[Kenia]

Cleo wrote: "...an un-put-downable book for me, generally won't get a 5 star rating. It's the ones that take hard work to get the treasures out of them and then the realization that I need a second or third reading to glean even more...."

I love it! It makes complete sense, even though it's almost the opposite of what I do. I just love hearing about others' rating systems. Thank you for explaining yours!

Cleo wrote: "...There were certain formalities observed that pointed back to Greek culture, and not only that, the respect shown at times to rivals was very telling. And didn't you think it fascinating that Homer himself appeared to show an appreciation for both sides?"

Oh yes, definitely. I LOVED the formalities. The respect for both sides, the explanation of lineages to other Greeks, even enemies (and always, the other party listens!), the observance of religious rites to the Gods, and how they ate....I absolutely love it all.

[Ashley]

Cleo wrote: "The poetry itself was part of the story; even the sounds of the words were meant to mimic what was occurring in the poem. If you don't have a good translation, it's harder to tell, but what Homer did with his verse is quite amazing. "

For anyone interested, I highly recommend finding a recording of someone reading the ancient Greek version and listening to a little bit of it. You can really hear the "horses & heartbeats" of the poem, which IMHO is cool.

[Sorento62]

Hi, You All-

This thread popped up on my email, and I'm happy to see you are still going on this group and project, Cleo and Kenia. I haven't been active on Goodreads for awhile, not reading as much since roughly the end of 2019. Currently though I am listening to some "prehistorical fiction" People of the Wolf that's been on my list a long time as part of my own Chronologically Through the Ages project. (although it is not itself a classic, for sure)
-Julie

[Athi]

Should I read the prose or the poetry version of the illiad?

[Cleo]

Definitely the verse (poetry) and Richmond Lattimore is the best translation if you want to get closest to the original. Have fun! I’ve read it three times and it’s in my top 5 favourites!