Christian Fiction Devourers discussion
Archived Favorite Discussions
>
What makes a book "Christian"?
message 51:
by
Dana
(new)
Apr 27, 2016 01:30PM
That's a great question. I'd say the book has to have more than a 'moral lesson' to qualify as c.f. I believe it should be a great story in which one or more of the characters makes progress on their faith journey. Definitely it should be told from a Christian world view. That's my two cents, anyway! Interesting reading all your thoughts! :)
reply
|
flag
That's a great question. I'd say the book has to have more than a 'moral lesson' to qualify as c.f. I believe it should be a great story in which one or more of the characters makes progress on their faith journey. Definitely it should be told from a Christian world view. That's my two cents, anyway! Interesting reading all your thoughts! :)
Dana wrote: "That's a great question. I'd say the book has to have more than a 'moral lesson' to qualify as c.f. I believe it should be a great story in which one or more of the characters makes progress on the..."Dana, that's a great response! As a writer of Christian fiction (Loving Toby, etc), I consider that my goal. The reader should be encouraged to turn to Christ and live according to his teachings. Taking that journey with someone in a fiction book can mirror real experiences and help the reader along that journey in life.
Dana wrote: "That's a great question. I'd say the book has to have more than a 'moral lesson' to qualify as c.f. I believe it should be a great story in which one or more of the characters makes progress on the..."Exactly; plenty of non-Christian books have moral lessons.
OP: If you want secular readers, write in the non-christian markets. Infuse your books with strong ethical questions and debates. Provoke thought. Don't preach.
G'day all! I'm new, and what a great question! So many different dimensions to it!For my part, a 'Christian' book is one that examines a question or issue from a distinctly Christo-centric angle. This might be the place of the concept of 'forgiveness' and 'justice' in law-and-order debates, or an examination of how a Christian might engage with a secular society, etc.
In doing this, if one of the characters has a foul mouth, then that is no more than a realistic portrayal of the real world we are dealing with. And by 'Christo-centric', I mean more than a legalistic or doctrine-centred approach as if this is all that mattered. As Christians, we follow a Person, not a written code, and we sometimes need to have our boundaries pushed if we are to be effective witnesses in a fallen world. Sometimes, even let a little bit of mud get in our ears as we try to clean up the pigpen.
But I can understand if this might be a bit 'edgy' for some readers.
Rebecca wrote: "Dana wrote: "That's a great question. I'd say the book has to have more than a 'moral lesson' to qualify as c.f. I believe it should be a great story in which one or more of the characters makes pr..."Indeed. Plenty of secular books have great morals; that's not what makes a book Christian. It should be about one or more characters either establishing or fixing their relationship with Christ. If the book establishes they're Christian but doesn't go into further detail, it'd still be secular in my Point of View, as the author is using Christian to help establish who they are and how they act and not much else.
And as for content in the book, there shouldn't really be anything that suddenly makes it non-Christian, just because of some content in the book. Swearing, drugs, adultery, many things are part of people's lives in the real world and while it makes sense to uninclude those things to make the book squeaky clean, including them can also help establish believable characters who are going through believable struggles who need help. Of course, the already Christians should refrain from these things.I mean, just look at the Bible! There's plenty of dark stuff in there!
Beth, in message 42, has covered it nicely. Even in the Bible there's plenty of extreme violence, etc.A 'Christian Book' that doesn't guide or strengthen me how to live in a fallen world might be escapism, but it's not helping me in where I am. Gritty narrative without being voyeurism is where I would draw the balance point.
Hi everyone. I am new to the group. I wanted to comment on this topic and that your insights have already inspired me! For any authors out there looking to be traditionally published: keep in mind that some of the Christian publishing houses are denominational and they have guidelines about what can and cannot be included, e.g. no baptism, no rosaries, etc. Best to do your homework before submitting so your work matches their criteria.I'm looking forward to more great discussions!
K.L. wrote: "Hi everyone. I am new to the group. I wanted to comment on this topic and that your insights have already inspired me! For any authors out there looking to be traditionally published: keep in mind ..."Hi, KL!
Welcome, and thanks for the wise advice. I've got a book going through the process now with a secular publisher. I think an intelligent Catholic could have written it; it is generally supportive of the main players (virtually all priests) and their world-view, but recognises the wrinkles in their organisation (just as in every other denomination this side of the grave). But I doubt it would get an 'imprimatur' from the local archbishop. Honest, faithful men doing their best in an imperfect environment is not how they would like the Church to be portrayed!
Bob wrote: "K.L. wrote: "Hi everyone. I am new to the group. I wanted to comment on this topic and that your insights have already inspired me! For any authors out there looking to be traditionally published: ..."G'day Bob,
But do you also think that many stories show religious figures as evil villains? It's happened in so many stories, it's become a cliche. There may have been a time long ago when that was shocking, but it's old and tired now. In my story, they make mistakes but they are not perpetrators of evil. They are just human after all!
Thanks for your response!
K.L.,Give me a title to look up on Amazon. I'm interested.
I can't think of a title right now, but my grandmother is addicted is Law and Order: SVU, and it seems like they're continually using the "radical Christian perp" in quite a number of those episodes. Also, British tv shows are very condescending about anyone who is sincere in their faith. I generally try not to read secular books that have this sort of plot, but I do love crime drama tv shows, and this plot device is used often; when it's handled with "oh, the fanatic..." kind of approach, as though no one who is serious about Christianity is anything but a warped criminal who wants to molest kids or dominate his family or beat his wife or be a racist or blow up buildings. I've run across it several times when trying out new shows.
K.L. wrote: "Bob wrote: "K.L. wrote: "Hi everyone. I am new to the group. I wanted to comment on this topic and that your insights have already inspired me! For any authors out there looking to be traditionally..."While it's not an example of human religious figures being the villain force, the Halo video game franchise does that. The main enemies, the Covenant Empire, worship an ancient species who disappeared called the Forerunners, believing they activated a device that turned them into gods, and that the Covenant was destined to follow in their footsteps by activating these devices, known as Halos.
It is revealed in the games, however, that the Halos are superweapons designed to destroy all sentient life in the galaxy in order to kill a galactic plague known as "The Flood", and that humans are the only species that can activate them, dubbed as "Reclaimers". The Covenant's religious leaders, the Prophets, discover this and declare their gods demand the extinction of humanity and thus go begin a genocidal war. They do so to keep the Covenant intact, because their entire religion is based on them being the ones to activate the Halos and ascend to godhood, not humans.
Where this is different is the fact that the religious leaders know their religion is not true, yet lie to preserve their own political power.
I agree that it is rather cliche, but I think Halo did a good job of not necessarily "breaking" the cliche, but bending it and making it appear differently.
Apologies for my video game rant :D
Bob wrote: "K.L.,Give me a title to look up on Amazon. I'm interested."
Hi Bob,
My book is called "The Kingdom", Parts 1 & 2 (of 4) are out now on Amazon for Kindle. It's the beginning of my medieval adventure series called Oath of Iron. You can also read my blog posts by clicking my initials "K.L." to get to my Goodreads author page, or go to Oath of Iron.com (no spaces).
Thanks much!
Hannah wrote: "I can't think of a title right now, but my grandmother is addicted is Law and Order: SVU, and it seems like they're continually using the "radical Christian perp" in quite a number of those episode..."hi Hannah,
Yes, I know what you mean. I remember watching the first show of Desperate Housewives and the Christian Lady next door is spying on her neighbor, goes to return her neighbor's blender as a reason to snoop, sees the neighbor lying dead, runs home, and alerts authorities, then promptly rips the tape with her neighbor's name on it off the blender (so she can keep it and no one is the wiser). Oh, really? I turned it off. Another time Law and Order had a meek woman who committed a crazed murder and of course she was a Christian. It seems Hollywood reverts to this over and over again. It's ridiculous.
Thank the Lord for movies like "The Blind Side"!
Hunter (Totally NOT a communist ☭), King of Games, Tunnel Snakes Rule! I'm a human and I have feelings that can be hurt, believe it or not. wrote: "K.L. wrote: "Bob wrote: "K.L. wrote: "Hi everyone. I am new to the group. I wanted to comment on this topic and that your insights have already inspired me! For any authors out there looking to be ..."Hi Hunter,
I had no idea what Halo was about. That's pretty involved for a video game.
That's interesting. I did not know that about Halo. Then again, I couldn't get past the first level where everybody is dying and you're trying to get to an escape pod. My PTSD kicked in and I was done.You might want to check out Starbound (still in Beta but available from Steam) for a storyline that sounds similar--at least, it did in the last update. There is this place you can go to called "the Ark" where there are carvings on the wall that look like references to God, but the programmers (last time I played) haven't gone into much detail about what that storyline is going to be just yet.
Anyways--back to books (since this is a book-focused website).
One of the reasons indie writers have flourished is because they are not following the "rules" that denominational publishers put out there for writers, and I think the discerning readers have caught on. I might add that the biggest "denomination" that has influence over these publishers is still the almighty secular dollar (or pound, euro, yen, etc.). It governs the Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, and even the cultists with the same heavy fist (with two fingers rubbing against a thumb).
I actually hid a Buddhist reference in one of my latest books because there is no better word within "Christianity" to describe the concept I was illustrating. Yeah, I know, that's gonna send me straight to hell and all that, but when you're trying to get an idea across, you sometimes have to break those "denominational" rules. The sad thing is, if I went and told people that a city named Samsara is a metaphor for the endless cycle of death and delusion, most "Christian" readers would think the book was going to drag them straight to hell, too, and I'd never be able to get the positive message across.
Hi Robert,I agree. Traditional Christian publishing can be a tight-lidded box, which is fine if that is how you write. Me, not so much. I'm an indie author.
An afterthought. I have a friend who likes to watch movies like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. He says they're "Christian" because they're about good and evil--evil always being the ugly orc or the scary zombie villain dressed in black. (Never is the villain posing as the good guy in a nice white suit.) He's not alone. There are a lot of people who mistake the definition of "Christian" for something like "White-hat cowboys v. black-hat cowboys" and think that their books and movies ought to agree with them. And unfortunately, a lot of my local Christian book store's shelves seem to do just that.
All of human life is about good vs. evil. Just because an author recognizes a bottle of sorts in the universe does not make the book Christian. To find one scrap of truth in fiction puts in on the Christian book level...For some reason the argument goes like this:
God created truth. Unregenerate man does not recognize truth. Thus, if I find truth, there is something Godly about the book.
That is not a logical argument! And yet I know people that will go round and round about it.
So, in HP you have good and bad wizards. How does that make anything Christian? The Bible is much more strict about the narrow path to truth and God... Even saying "you cast out demons in My name...and yet I knew you not." (Paraphrased.) That shows people doing a great deal of good works and yet not being true Christians. Just being good doesn't mean it's holy.
Hannah wrote: "All of human life is about good vs. evil. Just because an author recognizes a bottle of sorts in the universe does not make the book Christian. To find one scrap of truth in fiction puts in on the ..."Exactly. You could end world hunger, cure disease, stop wars, save puppies, anything good recognized by the world, but that gets you nowhere with the Lord. I have zero doubts it wouldn't please Him, but it won't get you "points" into Heaven because there ARE no points. Same with going to Church. Being in a Church doesn't not make you a Christian anymore than being in a garage makes you a mechanic.
My point was more along the line of discernment. I've seen too many wolves in the flock these last few years, and the church-attending masses just nod along and accept them because they "look like the good guys" (and often sound good, too). Somewhere along the way, somebody did away with the teachings where Christians are supposed to learn to spot those fangs and paws under that shiny, white sheepskin. Of course, if you write a book about confronting that kind of deception, would it be rejected as "not Christian" because it leaves out the salvation message?
I am getting increasingly more uncomfortable with the turn this discussion has taken. I'm not sure this is correct forum for this type of conversation.
Robin, I'm curious which part is making you uncomfortable? I've been moderating it (part of the "job" and all), and while I've seen it taking some rabbit trails here and there, nothing has alarmed me greatly at this point.Just want to make sure we mods haven't missed anything. :)
Robert wrote: "My point was more along the line of discernment. I've seen too many wolves in the flock these last few years, and the church-attending masses just nod along and accept them because they "look like ..."Technically, there is Christian fiction out there without a "salvation message," since sometimes the main character is already saved.
I say this as a person who loves Harry Potter. However, while it is good vs evil, it doesn't advocate Christ. Many books may have a "Christ figure," but to me, for a book to be Christian fiction, there really has to be no question that it is advocating Christ, not just some vague "Good" out there. Allegory is a whole other discussion, as sometimes it's very overt (I'm thinking along the lines of Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia).
I don't think there is anything wrong with a story line that points out problems in church or uncovers hypocrisy. It is a real thing and deserves being addressed. I think perhaps you're talking about a stereotype in writing in general, which is totally not exclusive to Christian fiction, so perhaps is an entirely different discussion.
I can think of several books that turn that on it's head - Jaded (and the next two books in the series as well) addresses hypocrisy and lies within the church in a very tasteful way, where one of the church elders looks the part, but has many secrets, hidden sins, etc. I'm not sure if that's something that you're talking about or not.
Robert wrote: "My point was more along the line of discernment. I've seen too many wolves in the flock these last few years, and the church-attending masses just nod along and accept them because they "look like ..."Wow, lots to think about in your post. Discernment is a huge subject and not much talked about in Christian circles just now. It would be interesting to see a fiction book that really addressed the need for it.
Honestly, most Christian fiction today is pretty tame in this respect. Publishers and readers alike tend toward a faith message rather than a doctrinal one, leaving the door open for more liberal "He is a good guy and thus deserving of a good life" type of book.
Character types I've encountered:
-MC lacks faith because of a tragic event in the past. Through tragedy or finding love, this belief is reconsidered.
-Character thinks they can be saved and everything is instantly perfect; no consequences for past mistakes
-If a character attends church sometimes and says a generic prayer or two, they are supposedly deserving of "the good life" and generally get their HEA.
-MC may be a "we have fun too" sort of gal—showing how much fun a Christian can have and how much like the world they can be...gambling, drinking, etc all portrayed as okay.
Not arguing with that. I do argue with the idea that there is "no difference" between saved and unsaved people, that just being good can count as making the book somehow Christian.
However, what I would like to see is some interesting and bold dialogue. For instance, I read an older book about the Inquisition that talked about the horrors of the church's individual position at the time while refraining from saying that the Catholic Church was the big bad wolf and that every Catholic was bound straight for hell. A priest ministered to the MC and was his friend. This sort of nuance is what I like: not being afraid to speak out about very real issues in the church, yet avoiding pairing with too broad a general brush. Just because one preacher committed a crime doesn't mean all preachers will, etc, etc.
So yes, sometimes there is deception within the bounds of the church. Don't end up "throwing the baby out with the bath water" but also don't pretend that the bath water doesn't stink. Address both with kindness and with the truth God has shown us.
I do not think that every book must contain the specific salvation message to be considered Christian. I think Christianity or the Christian life should play a large role and that things against God's stated plan in the Bible shouldn't be considered no big deal (for example, adultery or stealing or lying.)
Robin wrote: "I am getting increasingly more uncomfortable with the turn this discussion has taken. I'm not sure this is correct forum for this type of conversation."This is a group for Christians and others interested in Christian fiction. According to the description, “We discuss everything…” So, it seems to me that what is discussed in this thread is okay. There are bound to be disagreements, but anyone who has been on internet discussion boards should be used to that. We should remember to treat others with respect, but that doesn’t mean we should water down truth or keep from declaring truth so that we don’t offend others or make them uncomfortable.
Since it appears that you’re LDS, I suspect that one thing that made you uncomfortable was this statement by Hunter (message 73): “You could…anything good recognized by the world, but that gets you nowhere with the Lord…it won't get you "points" into Heaven because there ARE no points.” According to the Bible, doing good works will not enable anyone to spend eternity with Heavenly Father ( Eph 2:8-9 ). The only way anyone will spend eternity with Heavenly Father is through faith in Jesus and his sacrificial death on the cross. Once a person trusts in Jesus for the forgiveness of his/her sins (past, present, and future sins), that person is washed clean and is perfect in God’s sight from that point on, because that person is clothed in Jesus’s perfect righteousness ( Heb 10:10-14 ) . A Christian does works out of love, thankfulness, and obedience -- not in order to try to earn a place with Heavenly Father for eternity. Everyone who has not trusted in Jesus (and therefore been made perfect) before passing from this life here on earth will spend eternity in outer darkness. Everyone who is depending on their good works to get them to Heavenly Father (instead of completely depending on Jesus and his finished work on the cross) will spend eternity in outer darkness.
I suggest you visit the two sites I’ve linked below. They will give you a better understanding of what I have written.
You Can Be Perfect Now
You Can Be Worthy Now
Alegna, I don't want to assume that was specifically what bothered her about the discussion - Robin has been in the group for a while and has commented several times, so I think she is aware of what the group entails, etc. It could have been the video game or Harry Potter reference that made her uncomfortable. I know you came from a place of respect. :)
Hannah wrote: "Robert wrote: "My point was more along the line of discernment. I've seen too many wolves in the flock these last few years, and the church-attending masses just nod along and accept them because t..."Hannah, you said what I was thinking but didn't have the brain power to say - and way more eloquently too. I'll be waiting for your book to come out. ;)
I like the analogy about the bath water and feel it is very apt for a lot of the issues.
Christian fiction really does have a lot of variation, I think. Some of the more popular publishers I think do tend to either water down things or not talk about certain things because they aren't popular or warm and fuzzy. But they also publish some quality work, so I acknowledge that as well.
Then you have other publishers that aren't afraid push it a little bit. Of course, when I say push, I don't mean adding words, situations what have you just for shock value, but rather for real-life grittiness if the story calls for that. But overall, I think you're right, it's usually more of the variety that you listed in your comment more than the other.
Although, I will say, I've been a little disappointed by a publisher that is allowing language in their books. I know Christians curse, and I know some think it's okay, and I'm not perfect by any means, I don't always think before I speak, but if it's something that I try my best not to do, I don't want to read it in a Christian novel as just an ordinary, every day occurrence. It's like it's a combo between the "Christians have fun too" character, and the one that prays a few times and goes to church a few times. But I can't handle the cheesy variety either where because they are Christian, life is perfect, and they have no flaws. When it hits somewhere in-between is where I really feel drawn to a character. And of course, a well-done finding salvation story is uplifting and compelling as well.
Beth wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Robert wrote: "My point was more along the line of discernment. I've seen too many wolves in the flock these last few years, and the church-attending masses just nod along and accept..."Haha...at my pace, it will be another ten years!! My writing limps from scene to scene at the moment.
Re: publishers allowing content:From my study of publishers and guidelines, Christian publishers are usually pretty conservative. Many require certain Bibke versions to be used (Generally the one the publishing house already has the permission to use). Several forbid speaking ill of other denominations, and some do not allow your to mention denomination at all. Most do not like for theological issues to appear.
From a quick internet search on the subject, I have some further reading:
This is a decent summary...
http://fmwriters.com/Visionback/Issue... (older article; many broken links)
For laughs, for those of you who may not have known just how formulaic Harlequin can be...Harlequin spells it out a lot:
https://harlequin.submittable.com/submit
Anyway, I find it so very odd that the publishers (especially the ones outside the Baker House family (Bethany House/Revell)) are loosening up on swearing/sensuality but not on allowing real theological discourse.
I understand the want for fiction that deals with the deep issues of life, when things don't go according to plan. I think we should be frank about issues in the church and use fiction to present a Biblical answer to that. I will not ever admit that we have a need to include gratuitous violence, swearing, or sex in a book to make it believable. Those things can be mentioned as having happened, but the lurid or theatrical details should be left off stage. Since I'm in a clean read group, I've repeatedly heard tales of nonChristians getting Christian fiction books simply because they know they are safe to read. That's an excellent witness, and we should be very careful not to endanger that.
Hi Hannah,Thank you for your points on writing clean, they are compelling. I wonder though what the nonChristians think of overt praying and Scripture in these stories?
Hannah wrote: "Re: publishers allowing content:From my study of publishers and guidelines, Christian publishers are usually pretty conservative. Many require certain Bibke versions to be used (Generally the one..."
I haven't said much on here, but Hannah is doing a good job for me ;)
K.L. wrote: "Hi Hannah,Thank you for your points on writing clean, they are compelling. I wonder though what the nonChristians think of overt praying and Scripture in these stories?"
They fall into two camps, generally speaking. As long as the praying is done organically to the character, not just shoved in to make a point, most don't mind. They are very quick to spot things like "Christians shouldn't act that way" types of things, such as the cursing or if there's cheating, etc. They often complain about religion that seems hypocritical or if there are too many verses with no real application; they also hate goody goody characters. A well-researched book, where the Christian characters are not perfect but yet are made different by their faith, will not bother them in the least. It's only when the "preachy" part, where they feel like the author is doing telling rather than showing and getting into moralizing, that they cry foul and head off to rate it one star. If the prayer and sharing is part of the actual characterization it is okay.
The second camp is just looking for good clean fiction and is willing to take a little medicine with their sugar; they don't want to hear about faith, but as long as it's kept quiet they will enjoy the book...for instance, this sort of group reads a lot of fiction by LDS authors who keep things clean without adding religion. These people are the ones who would be happier if they saw something like "A Christian Novel" on the title page as a warning; many libraries don't separate fiction by subcategories, so these people prefer not to be surprised by Christianity and will rate the book lower when they are.
Those are the two main camps I've run across. I've been active on GR for three years and a bookseller for two, so I might know enough to advance an opinion. ;)
Very interesting, Hannah. Thanks for your insights!
I am thrilled with the direction this thread has taken. We are discussing how to deal with REAL issues instead of fairy tales. Thank you so much, all of you, for your willingness to be genuine.
Mr. Michael wrote: "I wrote a series of Christian books that some have skulked at because of how much sin they talk about. Although, the Bible talks mainly about sin too so what sense does that make?Since the rules ..."
Well, the Bible does talk about sin, quite a bit. But where can you find a verse that spells out a profanity? When Peter denies Christ for the third time, it says "he swore a great oath." When sex is mentioned, it is "he knew his wife" or "he went in to his concubine and slept with her." No details. No eroticism.
I'm wondering how is talking about facts related to giving lots of specific details? (Perhaps I can say, how is the newscast the same thing as the gossip column?)
I'm sorry Mr.Michael but I just don't think your book is very Christian. The language is appalling, not edifying...call your book what it is, a "guide" for adults...but I don't think it needs to be labeled a christian book....
Mr. Michael wrote: "I wrote a series of Christian books that some have skulked at because of how much sin they talk about. Although, the Bible talks mainly about sin too so what sense does that make?Since the rules ..."
Your reader has to wade through alot of eroticism to get to any point you might want to make about God. Why not just call it Adult?
I just finished a secular science fiction novel this weekend that has a powerful message based on a passage of scripture: The Mote in God's Eye. There are points in the book that don't make any sense (or don't need to be there) unless you realize the author is using them to make a reference to the initial scripture passage. And this guy is not a Christian author.This got me thinking about the last few Frank Peretti books I've read. There's no big "Christian" theme in them--the last one he put out merely features a scene where the characters hold a meeting in a Sunday school classroom--but we consider them to be "Christian" because there's a deeper message if you look for it. So what would you classify a secular book that uses a passage from the Bible (about removing the mote from your own eye before trying to remove the mote from your brother's) to make a social point.
Granted, this is a book that features several characters who belong to something akin to the Catholic church in space. At the same time, there are some pretty unpleasant scenes where the violence of the alien race is displayed. So I suppose it might have to be put into a new classification. Has anybody else read this book? Is it one that "Christians" should not read because it wouldn't have been carried in a Christian book store? Or is it one worth recommending to Christian friends because, despite its secular undertones, it has a great point worth discussing?
Robert wrote: "I just finished a secular science fiction novel this weekend that has a powerful message based on a passage of scripture: The Mote in God's Eye. There are points in the book that don'..."I would simply recommend it as a good book. I guess you could call it religiously friendly? For instance, Charles Dickens was not a Christian author, but wrote an incredible story of someone giving their life for another in "Tale of Two Cities." The book exemplifies someone who was influenced by Judeo-Christian values and morals. If the book you read is not intended as a Christian book, there's still no reason a Christian reader won't love it and enjoy it. It just doesn't mean that it's a Christian book per se.
"Ben-Hur" is a great example of this. Lew Wallace was unsaved when he decided to write the book, and thought that in his research he could prove once and for all that Jesus was just a good man. Instead, halfway through the writing, he was convicted that there was no way on earth anyone could be who Jesus was and do the things He did and fulfil the prophecies He did without being truly the Son of God, and Wallace was saved through the results of his research. However, the book is still considered general fiction and is a classic.
About 'The Mote in God's Eye'...I read this many years ago and I thought it a very good book. From my recollection after such a long time, I found it thought-provoking even without any explicit religious considerations.
The alien race in the Mote was doomed to endless cycles of building up a civilisation which would collapse and then have to be built up again. To my reading at the time I thought this might have been a reference to the Buddhist concept of endless cycles of death and re-birth, but in this case they are set free by a 'Saviour' from outside. But the process of escaping is very hard on them; the 'jump' to get out of their system affects them with terrible angst, like a death-experience.
Definitely worth a read; I think I might go through it again, and savour it now I have a few more years of life-experience behind me.
I'm not sure where the reference to Samsara would fit in, especially since the book and the star in which it takes place is named after a passage from the Bible. And, of course, Earth was just as caught up in the cycle.
I was thinking today about video games with Christian plots, and I remembered playing Portal a few years back. Did anybody else get an anti-theological message from "The cake is a lie"? Maybe it was just me coming from a background of studying the historical (and present) abuses of religious power, or is there a point there worth discussing at the Study group?
Beth wrote: "Alegna, I don't want to assume that was specifically what bothered her about the discussion - Robin has been in the group for a while and has commented several times, so I think she is aware of wha..."Sorry I didn't get back until now - life. No, Harry Potter didn't offend me. I love Harry Potter! It just seemed that swipes were being taken at those who practice within an organized religion and it gave me the feeling that the opinion was that we are only "trying to look" good. There are all types of Christians and all of the individual groups have those who are faithful and those who aren't the best examples. I just don't like generalizations about groups as a whole. What makes a person a Christian is an abiding belief and faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world. There are different theologies within that belief but overall, those practicing their religion should be given the benefit of the doubt that they are trying their best. After all, God knew we would sin. Jesus Christ atoned for us so that, when we make mistakes, we could repent and become better than we were before.
What makes a book Christian? I'd answer the question as follows.Christian fiction is fiction that is consistent with the biblical worldview. If the biblical worldview is true as it claims, then Christian fiction must use the power of story to illustrate truth. The aspect of truth that is focused on will create the framework for the story. The power of the story is in what is shown as opposed to what is told (such as a parable). Note that preaching generally makes for poor reading.
Perhaps the question should not be whether a book is Christian, but rather is it a good story? The goodness of a story will be directly related to the truth it illustrates.
Christian Fiction Devourers
Books mentioned in this topic
Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony (other topics)The riddle of the New Testament (other topics)
O Love How Deep: A Tale of Three Souls (other topics)
Deadly Consequences (other topics)
The Global War on Christians: Dispatches from the Front Lines of Anti-Christian Persecution (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Julie Klassen (other topics)Laura Frantz (other topics)
