Our Shared Shelf discussion
Apr—How to Be a Woman (2016)
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Can we appreciate this book for what it is?
Marina wrote: "Yes, I've been thinking of fragility too.I don't think reading the book automatically means denying certain people's dignity, but being so defensive and all "can we appreciate it for what it is? ..."
This book has brought on a lot of discussion...isn't that sort of the point of this book club? In that vein, I think it's done exactly what a feminist book club choice SHOULD do.
I disagree about the problems with this book not being comparable to the ones in the other books (I highly recommend you check out the thread involving people who didn't like bell hooks' book due to her religion. It was...interesting.) but we'll just have to leave it at that.
I was unaware this was planned to be a 1 year project. Where did you learn that? That does change my viewpoint on what books are selected somewhat.
I see a lot of discussion going on and while it's easy to do that, I want to do what this thread suggests and appreciate the book for what it is. I read it as stories from one woman's life and her own particular experiences with becoming a woman and figuring out what feminism is to her. Some of the personal experiences seemed so distant from me as they were distinctly British. Overall, I understood the feelings and emotions the author was expressing from her experiences.
Moran is hurting young trans and genderqueer people much more with the "vagina test". You don't have to *be* black or gay, you have to respect them. Otherwise no, I'm not going to be supportive. You'l find plenty of supportive people anyway.
In other threads I've given some more examples of how you can be inclusive if you're from a very white area and/or don't know trans people. People you know online count. People you meet during your travels count. Celebrities also count.
I was pretty sure that I read somewhere in the description that the project was planned for 2016 only, but I can't find any confirmation now. Perhaps I misunderstood something, sorry if that's the case!
I appreciate this book. I found that from the moment this book was announced people were checking bad reviews and the discussion of the book happened before they had read it. I understand the urge to check others reviews but I do admit that seeing all the discussions did put me off the book before I'd even ordered. But, I decided that I joined this club for a reason and purchased. I'm so glad I did, I can see why people may not have enjoyed it. She has a very strong writing style and isn't afraid to write what you might sometimes be thinking but haven't had the nerve to say! I think if you approach it expecting the same style from previous book choices you may miss that this book was chosen as a light relief if you will. She's sharing her own history adding the feminist lessons she has learnt along the way, in my humble opinion, she is not discriminating, just sharing her approach to feminism. This book was refreshing, witty, to the point and at times I laughed out loud! So yes, I appreciate this book choice. I approached this book (like the others) with an open mind. I have learnt so much from every single book so far and am looking forward to the next.
Sherrie wrote: "You are claiming that you're observing people being defensive about race. Can you give an example of that happening in this thread? Because I haven't seen it. ..."The academic Robin D'Angelo wrote a series of papers developing the theory of white fragility after observing the same behaviors over and over again whenever she taught classes about race. Those included some things such as;
Claiming to feel attacked, or bashed or unfairly targeted whenever the topic was under discussion, regardless of whether it was directed at a particular person. Using inflated language like attacked to describe being disagreed with.
Saying that people who wanted to talk about race were over sensitive, or took everything too seriously, or needed to lighten up, or that they are caught up in negativity and just need to let it go and let other people enjoy themselves.
The "not all" argument, this discussion is not relevant to me because I am a good person and whatever other white people do its not on me, and its unfair to lump me in with them.
The race is a problem for people who have a race, I'm white argument: "Because race is constructed as residing in people of color, whites don’t bear the social burden of race. ...Race is for people of color to think about — it is what happens to “them”
Claims that talking about race or trying to make other people think about it is "silencing" or dismissing the experience of white people.
The Good/Bad Binary: The most effective adaptation of racism over time is the idea that racism is conscious bias held by mean people. If we are not aware of having negative thoughts about people of color, don’t tell racist jokes, are nice people, and even have friends of color, then we cannot be racist. Thus, a person is either racist or not racist; if a person is racist, that person is bad; if a person is not racist, that person is good. ... The focus on individual incidences prevents the analysis that is necessary in order to challenge this larger system. The good/bad binary is the fundamental misunderstanding driving white defensiveness about being connected to racism. We simply do not understand how socialization and implicit bias work.
The above quotes are taken from this article, which is aimed at a more general audience, you can also find more academic articles with footnotes and citations if you do a web search
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/good-me...
One of the things I find fascinating about this is that I see people do exactly the same thing in conversations about gender, or in conversations about disability or other social categories. Very often people will be able to see and call out the defensiveness in one situation and then turn around and display it in another. Like a feminist woman will call out a man for a faulty argument (like the individual/group thing) about gender but then turn around and make the same faulty argument herself with regard to race. Our brains are tricky things!!
Bunny wrote: "Sherrie wrote: "You are claiming that you're observing people being defensive about race. Can you give an example of that happening in this thread? Because I haven't seen it. ..."The academic Rob..."
My statement that Marina's comments were encouraging silencing of white voices are because she explicitly said that those people shouldn't write memoirs. It was a response to a very specific claim.
I stand by my statement and don't feel it was defensive. I'm sorry if you read it as such.
Mod
I am in complete agreement that all of these issues need to be discussed, and they are not easy topics. So things are going to get heated and uncomfortable, and that's fine.
But please keep in mind that this particular thread was started to discuss the positive aspects of the book. The title asks a particular question that merited an answer, and everyone has a different opinion on that. But I am noticing a lot of threads being taken over with the same arguments between the same people and it is discouraging other members from participating.
I would like to remind everyone that there are people from all over the world and of different backgrounds trying to be involved here. Some have less facility with English. Some are younger. Some have had less access to education. I think I have to mention that these concepts, which are very important, are new to a lot of people. Some may never have encountered them before at all. It's great that they can be exposed to them here. But please keep in mind that at the time of reading the book, they may not have been actively thinking about these concepts, and so they may want to have a discussion about things that they liked.
Basically, I think it is appropriate to voice these opinions anywhere and everywhere, but there is already a lengthy discussion about the "white perspective" of this book happening, and it would make it easier for a larger number of members to participate on this group if we gave them some space to discuss their thoughts. Then we can respond to new members' thoughts rather than preventing them from feeling comfortable voicing their thoughts at all.
It is just important that we be respectful and patient.
Also, as far as I know, there are no plans for this book club to end after a year. Emma recently announced a year-long hiatus from acting to focus on her work in gender equality, but that was announced after this club began. I don't believe that there are plans for the club to end after a year.
Marina, Anja, Laurelai and anyone else, I'd be very happy to talk with you in another thread if you are interested. Just because this discussion isn't welcome here doesn't mean we can't have it.
Yes, which is why I am suggesting that those of us who want to have a different discussion could take it elsewhere. I'm not doing a pout and flounce. I am genuinely saying let's go somewhere else and talk about this if other people in this thread don't want to.
Mod
Please do not take my message as a request to cease having the conversation. It is simply to point out that the domination of members on certain threads is preventing other members from taking part in discussion. There are currently 3+ threads on this discussion board on similar topics being dominated by the same members. It is creating some level of intimidation that is preventing other members, perhaps with different levels of language facility and education, from participating. If anything, I think that this adds another level to the discussion of intersectionality.
Please note that message 67 is a response to a message that has been deleted I wasn't actually talking to myself. :-)
Mod
Ah, and I didn't see that response until after I had posted message 68. Thanks for clarifying!
Bunny wrote: "Yes, which is why I am suggesting that those of us who want to have a different discussion could take it elsewhere. I'm not doing a pout and flounce. I am genuinely saying let's go somewhere else a..."
I'd like to join. I didn't find any suitable thread under this book section.
I'd like to join. I didn't find any suitable thread under this book section.
Mod
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
There is also another thread where people are discussing Intersectionality in general in that folder, not to mention the many devoted to specific issues under the umbrella term.
And there is still the topic "White Perspective?" in the folder Apr—How to Be a Woman where the discussion of issues specific to this book and intersectionality continues.
Thanks Anja, I have to go do a work project for a couple of hours but I will check in with you in any of those locations Katelyn listed after that, just leave a note for me in the Intersectionality thread I started on where to find you. Same for anyone else who wants to meet up someplace around here and talk.
Katelyn wrote: "I'm just going to step in here and remind everyone to be respectful.I am in complete agreement that all of these issues need to be discussed, and they are not easy topics. So things are going to ..."
Thank you, Katelyn. And I apologize to the OP if I'm one of the people who derailed the conversation. It wasn't my intention, but sometimes conversations get away from us. As I said in my original comment, I agree with most of what OP said and am interested in hearing what other people have to say.
It might be helpful, if the OP is willing, to change the title of the thread to something more like, post here about what you liked about the book. Or lets talk about the things we liked. Or Positive Thread About the Book. That might be clearer about what the intention of the thread is supposed to be.
Yeah good idea. I also asked some questions on the previous page about how this book handles certain things. These are basically the most positive things I can say.I never said that white cishet women shouldn't write memoirs, just that they should do it responsibly, especially if they attempt to write as feminists. Don't preach to young people with vaginas unless you're ready to include all young people with vaginas. Accept that there are people with legitimate reasons not to be feminists and be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Emma wrote: "Bunny wrote: "It might be helpful, if the OP is willing, to change the title of the thread to something more like, post here about what you liked about the book. Or lets talk about the things we li...""Original Poster"...it's basically referring to the person who started this thread. :)
btw @Sherrie, I certainly didn't take that comment as being about you specifically. I think Bunny addressed me because it's not the first thread where we're discussing it.@Katelyn that's offtopic but can you confirm or deny what I seem to remember, about Emma saying that this year she's hosting the book club, or a similar statement implying it's a project of 2016 and then it may or may not continue? (but regardless of whether it continues, I know from various projects that motivation and participation will be declining, so the first books are extremely important)
Mod
I don't recall any mention of it being only for one year, no. Just what I mentioned earlier about her year-long hiatus from acting, but I don't believe there was ever a direct connection made between that and OSS, although I do think OSS is part of her general plans to focus on gender equality efforts. As far as I understand, though, this was not meant to suggest that OSS would be only a year-long project.
Emma wrote: "Sherrie wrote: ""Original Poster"...it's basically referring to the person who started this thread. :)"Thank you! That clears things up :)"
Or opening poster or opening post. If you google, urban dictionary often pops up for acronyms and various modern expressions used online. There usually are several definitions written by users and others get to vote on them, so the one with most votes pops up on top.
Bunny wrote: "Aglaea wrote: "And by the way, few are honouring OP's request, but you had to come to complain, school, and educate also in this very thread. It's rude."Ah well, I tried, but I guess it's just not possible for me to talk with you on this subject. Every time I try you take offense. Every different thing I try is wrong. So I guess I will give up."
The rude stuff was meant for everyone who jumped in with only negative commentary, not just you.
Or perhaps you could simply ponder for a while why it might be that I might say that you do sound a bit superior? I mean, I know words, and I know meaning, and I observe people how and when they post, and what they include in their posts. I read people. I've noticed when you've ignored something I've said, and when you've replied, what you've included in the response and what has gone unacknowledged. It creates a track record, and in this case, to me it seems like you've decided I must be discussing things from a particular angle, even when I keep telling you I'm not. You also seem to have certain bias in terms of my background, which I might be completely wrong about. It's not that I'm not interested in discussing stuff, but I don't care to talk with a person, who does no visible effort of observing herself in return, in particular when it's been pointed out already and when she asks of me to observe myself in public. The topic is sensitive, but I have no intention of laying only myself bare, when others talk to me from a different position, basically from above.
Mod
Unfortunately Aglaea will not be able to private message me as my account settings do not permit this. I have had to change my settings to protect myself from harassment by men who think I'm a "lesbo feminazi" who ought to be harmed in various creative and violent ways. Perhaps we could try just giving each other some space. The block function is an excellent tool for taking a break from someone whose tone or point of view you find unwelcome. I recommend it. You can't be annoyed by things that you don't see.
I haven't laughed this hard reading a book in a long time! She as witty and down to earth. I found her views on feminism fun and relatable. I liked the way she used her life experiences to describe her views. I can see myself in her at times and really connect with the feminist ideas. She put into words ideas that I have never been able to explain to others. I have decided that I do not want to have children but when family sees this thinks that this is crazy it is hard to explain that I don't need kids to be a fulfilled person. I liked hearing a woman who has kids say that it was ok for someone to not want kids too and understand why. I am looking forward to checking out her other books.
*Just posting something I like about this book*
I like that this book is an honest look at what it is like to grow up as a woman. Through this book, Moran has given me many of those "I always thought that in the back of my mind, but never knew how to articulate it" moments. For that, I think this book has been very beneficial.
I also like that she clarifies that, yes, there are some things that women tend to do differently than men, but it has more to do with the societal expectations placed on women than it does with biological necessity. For example, when she describes having an entire weekend away (in your imagination) with a man you've spoken to three times, I noticed that I had done something similar to this in the past; however, it's probably not because I long for romance so much as it is that I felt like there was an expectation to find romance and settle down with a man as soon as possible.
This book is what it is, and what it is is one woman's hilarious account of growing up as a woman. I love that this book club allows thousands of people around the world to have one book that they are focusing on, and I for one am happy to read whatever is chosen :).
I like that this book is an honest look at what it is like to grow up as a woman. Through this book, Moran has given me many of those "I always thought that in the back of my mind, but never knew how to articulate it" moments. For that, I think this book has been very beneficial.
I also like that she clarifies that, yes, there are some things that women tend to do differently than men, but it has more to do with the societal expectations placed on women than it does with biological necessity. For example, when she describes having an entire weekend away (in your imagination) with a man you've spoken to three times, I noticed that I had done something similar to this in the past; however, it's probably not because I long for romance so much as it is that I felt like there was an expectation to find romance and settle down with a man as soon as possible.
This book is what it is, and what it is is one woman's hilarious account of growing up as a woman. I love that this book club allows thousands of people around the world to have one book that they are focusing on, and I for one am happy to read whatever is chosen :).
Sorry if this in the wrong thread, I can't find a thread that is just a neutral "I finished the book, here's what I thought" thread. For me, I feel very meh about this book. It was okay, I liked some of it, but a lot of it I just had trouble relating to. A lot of the things she described just weren't things I went through. To me, this book seemed less about feminism, and more about her experiences growing up, and figuring out what being a woman meant to her. And that's fine. Some of it was quite amusing. But, I just didn't go through a lot of the angsty things she was referencing, and so I couldn't relate to it. I thought some of it was amusing, and I appreciated her upfront and honest dialogue about abortion. So, I didn't hate the book, and I didn't love it. I just feel....meh. And for me, that's ok.
I wasn't sure how I was going to feel about this book as I was aware of some the criticisms that have been made. As several people have already mentioned there were some things in it that were problematic but leaving that aside for this thread just to focus on the things I found helpful and of value, there was much to enjoy in this book.Some of it to be absolutely hilarious and found myself getting strange looks from fellow commuters at my loud giggling on the train. I found the incredibly frank, unashamed discussion on several personal topics and experiences, many of which are normally considered taboo in mainstream media/culture to be very refreshing.
I also found this an excellent counterpoint to some of the heavier things we have read and I think it's a good idea for some lighter reads to be slipped in every now and then to give us a break from some of the more serious stuff. I definitely think I am going to read Moranifesto as well in the future but as with this book I will be reading it with full critical faculties engaged.
I can say I fully appreciate this book. I just finished this book 30 minutes ago, and can say I love it. I agree/disagree with things in the book. I took this book as an autobiography of someone's life on how they came to be today. There are a couple of distasteful words like trannys and nigger in the book, but I'm not going to judge the author on the the casual use of them. I appreciate this book for giving me ideas, questioning things, and openly talking about stuff like porn, abortion, etc. I half expected the size of a women, fashion, and marriage in the book.I appreciated that she wrote the chapter about abortion. In a world were women are deemed unloving and monsters if we even think about the word in a positive way, I'm glad to see it in the book. Growing up/living in the bible states of US, I see antiabortion protest daily on the weekends on busy streets. Men, women, and their children protesting something that they don't like/understand but have no idea on the situation or what it does to the women and their partners. These women are making a big decision in their life that may have life-long affects on their life. These antiabortion protesters don't think that. All they think about is that this is something I don't like, so nobody should do it, even if it's life-threating or the child may grow up in a bad home, if they're lucky to get a home.
This book is a tale of a woman's experience of becoming a woman and how she is a feminist. I did not expect anything but what it is. It did not tell me how to be a feminist, but gave me ideas on topics to discuss and what is wrong with society.
Side note: Sorry for misspelled words and grammar mistakes, my phone like to autocorrect things that were not wrong to begin with.
Stacey wrote: "I can say I fully appreciate this book. I just finished this book 30 minutes ago, and can say I love it. I agree/disagree with things in the book. I took this book as an autobiography of someone's ..."Stacey I completely agree with your feelings on her writing the Abortion chapter. It is such a heated topic right now and I feel like it should not be ignored and that she wrote so openly about it was awesome. I think that was my favorite part of the book because she just out and said everything she was thinking on such a touchy subject.
I too agreed and disagreed with her but I loved the book and did not take it as her instructing me on how to be a woman. I think everyone needs to keep in mind when reading this that she is giving her opinion, which we all have, and you are not required to agree with everything. But yeah, I am with you on your feelings about the book. Fully appreciate it and would definitely recommend it to people.
Emma wrote: "Colleen ~ The Clever Girl from Gallifrey wrote: "Stacey I completely agree with your feelings on her writing the Abortion chapter. It is such a heated topic right now and I feel like it should not ..."Abortion is the perfect example of why feminism is such a difficult topic.
On one hand we have those, who feel like they should be allowed to tell others how to live their lives, and on the other hand we have people who think women should be allowed to make up their own mind about their private affairs.
It is very hard for me to listen to those who insist on shoving down others' throats their own belief system, when in reality there are more religions than we probably can count as well as agnostics and atheists, and various pagan beliefs who categorise themselves in different ways. Religion and state obviously don't mix well for this reason. Unless we of course declare one religion to be the only acceptable one and force everyone to join. Ugh.
If I were to take liberties and claim my way is the best way, it is because I feel it is indeed the best. I feel secure enough in myself that I can live with others making choices I wouldn't make for myself, (but not everyone is generous like this. Aren't I horribly arrogant...)
Let everyone choose what works for them. Everyone wins. But this simple approach is ghastly to fundamentalists, so there you have it. Something incredibly simple is made very difficult, because some people always have to say that their one particular way is the best, the superior, above the other ways. I can't stand it.
Although I am not against abortion, I was truly shocked by that chapter. Not shocked in a oh-my-god-how-could-she way, but in a I haven't thought of this situation. And I cried a ridiculous amount for the baby because I knew what was coming (this was unexpected). It was.. deeply personal and, I imagine, extremely hard to share, and yet it was an extremely difficult topic dealt with in a very rational way. And that's probably one of the things that I like the most of this book. She is straightforward about everything, and she makes sense. I don't agree with everything she had to say, and I haven't necesarily had the same experiences, but isn't that part of the point? She is a woman and also a feminist and this is her experience -which, in some way, is similar to mine and in others is diametrically opposite. I laughed, I cried, and it gave me Would you rec Moranifesto though? Anyone read it?
Hey, new here. I haven't finished the book yet, but I would like to add to this discussion on the abortion issue. Has anybody read Freakonomics by Stephen Dubner? He makes a really good pro abortion point in that book. Also, I see people saying that the book is just "how to be a white woman" and not plain woman. Im not white, but I was still able to relate to a lot of issues Moran mentions in her book. My favorite so far has been the "don't call people sexist, call them rude". It seems like anytime a person is being sexist, and u say that to their face, they almost always retaliate, "It was a joke! U feminist girls dont know a laugh?" If u announce u r a feminist, you are always branded as being loud, domineering, picking unnecessary fights and a man hater. People call u bitch behind ur back. Ever happen to anybody?
Moran's idea of people calling rude instead if sexist seems a good call, but will that help against the prejudice against feminism?
I'd like to thank Katelyn very much for stepping in! I was getting a bit intimidated myself. Getting a bit hostile. I agree with the last few posters on the abortion chapter. I didn't know she'd write about it--or, briefly, her miscarriage--and I found that it was handled with a fantastic honesty that even found a tasteful sort of humor to the sadness. I think Moran's perspective on her abortion is one we don't often read, possibly because women are afraid of being judged for their lack of guilt.
Leanne wrote: "I'd like to thank Katelyn very much for stepping in! I was getting a bit intimidated myself. Getting a bit hostile.I agree with the last few posters on the abortion chapter. I didn't know she'd write about it--or, briefly, her miscarriage--and I found that it was handled with a fantastic honesty that even found a tasteful sort of humor to the sadness. I think Moran's perspective on her abortion is one we don't often read, possibly because women are afraid of being judged for their lack of guilt."
The last sentence you wrote is interesting to expand on. The thing with abortion is that few will come out of the situation jumping of joy. It is insinuated that women, who choose abortion, are heartless and incapable of feeling guilt. I find this problematic at best and judgmental at worst. Women, who choose abortion, do so due to as many reasons as there are women getting abortions. I know for a fact that some will remain guilt-ridden for the rest of their lives, because it was the hardest decision they ever had to make, even when said decision was the best they could do under the circumstances.
Also, only yesterday I read something that made me think I should add it to this very thread. It went something along the line of this: "Pro choice isn't the same as pro abortion. It's about letting others mind their own damn business." (it's incorrectly written, but the zest of it was that exactly)
I'm pro choice, but until I myself were to face a situation of abortion or no abortion, I have no idea of my final decision. With that said, I've already exercised my right to choose, when I've taken a morning-after pill, which in itself was rather shocking an experience. There was a situation with a condom ending up inside me instead of where it should have remained, and my becoming slightly hysterical as a result. I've also used an intra-uterine device, which technically has allowed for fertilisation to happen several times. For someone to tell me I've made the wrong decisions in my personal life context is ridiculous really.
Mod
It is perfectly acceptable to position oneself as pro-choice as opposed to pro-abortion, but a pro-abortion stance is also valid, and should not be written off as a militant stance that wants all pregnancies aborted. It's like someone being pro-appendectomy; it doesn't mean that you think everyone should be getting appendectomies, but rather you are supportive of accessibility of necessary medical procedures and see them as a positive thing.
I think this pro-abortion stance, that an abortion is a medical procedure that is necessary and has a positive outcome, can be very healthy.
Here's an article I read awhile back that really influenced my feelings on the issue: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_am_...
That's a very good piece you linked to Katelyn I really liked it and I agree. Abortion is a medical procedure that can be necessary and should be available and safe when it is necessary. I particularly noted number five5. I’m pro-abortion because reproduction is a highly imperfect process. Genetic recombination is a complicated progression with flaws and false starts at every step along the way. To compensate, in every known species including humans, reproduction operates as a big funnel. Many more eggs and sperm are produced than will ever meet; more combine into embryos than will ever implant; more implant than will grow into babies; and more babies are born than will grow up.
That really made sense to me and brought some things I already knew into a clearer perspective. Human reproduction is actually a pretty brutal and imperfect process, and reproductive medicine including contraception and abortion can and should work to make it less brutal.
Katelyn wrote: "Aglaea, I agree with you on the negative stereotype that suggests that only uncaring, selfish women get abortions, which is of course untrue. That being said, the expectation that a woman should fe..."And I agree with you completely :) There should be room also for women who think their decision was the best thing to happen and who feel absolutely nothing afterwards, but relief. All feelings are okay!
As for the medical portion, I am pro safe, pro clean, pro knowledgeable all the way. That however has nothing to do with the emotional part for me personally.
Mod
Absolutely! I kind of think the whole "pro-this, pro-that" stuff is tiresome and ridiculous, but necessary to some extent because of the way that "pro-life" rhetoric positions abortion. If we all accepted it as a necessary medical procedure, then we wouldn't need to make all of these distinctions about what we support, what we don't. There are emotional components to a lot of surgeries, to varying degrees. People often have to give something up for their health or quality of life.
I actually first read that article during the height of the anti-Planned Parenthood stuff going on in the U.S., and there was a meme going around listing all the different services that PP provides, and last stating the fact that abortion only accounts for 3% of PP services, and does not receive federal funding. Someone wrote a post in response to this, basically explaining that while that is all important to recognize, it's also important that we avoid casting abortion as something bad that they do (But only 3% of the time!!!). Does that make sense? Like, "don't cut funding for PP, abortion is only 3% of services, the rest are super important and objectively acceptable!" make sit seem like an apology for the abortion portion of their services.
Yes I've seen a post like that too. Reminds me on those who avoid focusing too much on the "LGBTQ people are born that way" argument, pointing out that if it was a choice it's still okay.
Mod
Melle, just because quoting you was not enough to get the words that interested me the most here:
Inclusivity can't be forced. It has to be learned.
I am slowly catching up with threads and, as I have said a million times, I need to start with Moran, but these words. These words will keep resonating to me regardless of any further progress with the book. I agree with you entirely on this.
I agree with previous commenters, it's almost like they are apologising for that portion of their work. Makes me very sad to think about.
I loved the book. It was so funny and refreshingly honest. Sure I didn't agree with everything she wrote, but that's kind of the point isn't it? Everyones entitled to their own opinions.
Katelyn wrote: "Laurelei wrote: "That seems to unfairly place the burden on certain groups. White women should be just as capable and responsible for doing intersectional work, even if they are straight, able-bodi..."EXACTLY-- I haven't read through all the criticisms yet, but I have seen a lot about how she is not inclusive enough. And I keep thinking, "but you guys, it's a MEMOIR. And she is WHITE." Surely we would not want her to talk about experiences she has not had. Right?? I echo your question-- in all sincerity-- where would she have put it?? Where would have been an appropriate place, and an appropriate WAY, to include voices other than her own?
Hi Erika, I'm not supposed to discuss that here, but I did earlier in my posts if you're able to read them :)
Nobody has replied me - does she actually have experience with stripping and burlesque? She tells youngsters which is okay and which isn't."If you have a vagina, you should be a feminist" is also not something you expect to find in a memoir.
I don't think reading the book automatically means denying certain people's dignity, but being so defensive and all "can we appreciate it for what it is? not every book has to be intersectional!!!1 it's fine to write a book for white cis women only" is just that. i'm yet to see anyone who enjoyed the book and missed the problematic aspects, then read the criticism here and didn't get defensive. Katelyn's posts are the closest but I think she was aware of the problematic aspects from the beginning.
As for the book club choice, for me the main problems here are that we don't know how many years this will last, and that the enthusiasm is the highest in the beginning (and Emma's delighted recommendation of the book). t's a wasted opportunity to read something more inclusive, more intersectional, something that would be a better introduction to feminism, that we can recommend to our friends. to me the problems in this book are just not comparable to the issues with the previous ones.
for now this club is supposed to be a one-year project. if it continues, eventually this book could be worth reading, but as of now there are tons of better options.