The Sword and Laser discussion
This topic is about
The Fifth Season
2016 Reads
>
TFS: When Style is more than just "Cool" (Spoilers for all)
date
newest »
newest »
E.J. Xavier wrote: "The artfully crafted language isn't just there to sound beautiful (though it is certainly very beautiful), but as I reread I keep finding new meaning and new themes to explore...."
Yeah, all of this. Dammit, I wasn't going to do a reread...
Yeah, all of this. Dammit, I wasn't going to do a reread...
Mod
Without knowing the things we know, those of us who have finished the book, I discovered in a class I took on "creative non-fiction" that 2nd person can be a great replacement for passive voice - it does just pull the reader in. And regardless of other reasons (which I definitely agree with), being pulled into the landscape was effectively unnerving.(view spoiler)
On the other hand, second person kills your chance of being popular in Japan since second person pronouns are generally considered rude and condescending in Japanese.
This is a minor observation but one other style change I noticed was the way she put the snippets from the books and laws at the ends of chapters. I've read many many books where you start a chapter with some in-world verse, historical quote, etc. I've personally always liked the conceit as a world building detail. Putting them at the end of a chapter instead of at the top subtly changed how I related to them, connecting them back to what I'd just read, instead of priming me for what might be about to happen. Functionally they are still between chapters, it's a very minor formatting change. But it's a detail that did change how I read them and what I tried to connect them to.
I agree that the choices she made for perspective and formatting in this novel were perfect but it does leave me wondering what she will do for the rest of the series. The way she used the 3 POVs and how they eventually came together wouldn't have the same effect if used a second time. It makes me think of Blood Song and how the author used a device that worked perfectly for the first novel but then had to switch to a more traditional POV structure for the rest.
E.J. Xavier wrote: "This is a minor observation but one other style change I noticed was the way she put the snippets from the books and laws at the ends of chapters. I've read many many books where you start a chapte..."Tangent - I appologize.
The snippet that stuck out to me was the quote about needing some "strong backs" which made me think that the use-casts were a perversion of the intended wisdom of the stone-lore. A bit of poetry turns into a caste system which propagates down through the centuries and creates some really dark story bits.
I like the little bits that an author sneaks in a book that shake up my understanding of the book as I read and reread it (pun intended).
Andy wrote: "The snippet that stuck out to me was the quote about needing some "strong backs" which made me think that the use-casts were a perversion of the intended wisdom of the stone-lore."Huh. Reading your comment, I wonder if I can make the argument that the "strongback" caste is something like unskilled labor/blue collar worker. And another group that both suffers stereotypes and being used, but also is likely to treat the orogenes badly.
I believe the strongbacks are the labourer caste, and rank only above the untouchables (those without a community and orogenes) on the social totem pole. Like Andy, I got the sense that the castes arose out of some old eugenics experiment, the origins and purpose of which has been lost over the years.
Brendan wrote: "I believe the strongbacks are the labourer caste, and rank only above the untouchables (those without a community and orogenes) on the social totem pole. Like Andy, I got the sense that the castes ..."I definitely think that it was stated above that "stone lore" gave rise to the caste system. Of course, the stone lore could be the reason for the eugenics program, but I think the various classes came from strict adherence to one particular passage.
I more thought it was the other way around, the stone lore recorded the results of a eugenics program, but I read the book a while ago and some things could be fuzzy.
That could very well be the case, but I don't think the Sanze empire existed previous to the stone lore being recorded, and as far as we know (which isn't much) the Sanze empire is the only real widespread governance that humans have had, at least in the last several thousand years. Of course, the Sanze could have fabricated the stone lore just to suit their needs...
Colton wrote: "That could very well be the case, but I don't think the Sanze empire existed previous to the stone lore being recorded, and as far as we know (which isn't much) the Sanze empire is the only real wi..."I am fine with either option, that the stone lore has been misinterpreted or that the stone lore has been manipulated. Alabaster frequently spoke about his belief that the stone lore has been altered or "lost" along the way to suit the political needs of those in power.
I think at the end of the day, a single line in an end-of-chapter quote added to an interesting discussion about the caste system and that the little details add up to making a book great.
The quotes for me served as an index of stonelore in a way that seemed to fit naturally into the story. They didn't always apply exactly when they were needed but by the end of the story I found myself flipping back to ones I remembered as they became more important or even central to the ways that the characters were acting. On note of the spoiler I didn't catch it until the last second, which is odd for me and really added to my enjoyment of the book.
I would say that for about the first half of the story, I found the style a little distancing, though I had been gripped by the beginning. It took me a while to get much of a feel for the characters. But the further I went, the deeper the style dragged me under. I have only just finished it and now I want to read it again just to enjoy the writing.
I wonder if other Jemisin's books are like this, in terms of writing style.
As it came together one of the things I kept thinking about was how the author seemed really interested in the idea that (view spoiler)[ at different phases in our lives we are essentially different people, with beginnings and ends. And maybe as time goes on we are different people simultaneously. Our past selves and our current selves.
"Then he returns his attention to you. (To her, Syenite.) To you, Essun. Rust it, you’ll be glad when you finally figure out who you really are."
This theme extends to other characters as well:
""You,” you say suddenly to Tonkee. Who is not Tonkee."
While there were definitely moments where everything clicked into place, over all there was a very satisfying slow burn of revelation as I began to suspect that the three characters might be the same person at different life stages. One of the things that really enhanced that for me was the choice to use the rare second person narrative for Essun while sticking with the more common third person for the other two. It served a specific plot/narrative need where in the end we find out Hoa has been narrating Essun's storyline (and maybe the others, too). But it also did this neat thing for me where it essentially distracted me enough that I didn't figure out the reveal too soon.
If Jemison had used third person for all of the three or if she had gone the other route and made them each uniquely different I think it would have been too "on the nose" for the twist that all three were the same woman and a bit more predictable. But this asymmetrical approach where two were essentially the same style and one was extremely unusual helped keep me as a reader on my toes and I wasn't sure what to expect. (hide spoiler)]