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SPOILER thread on Fool Me Once (Coben)
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i agree, barry. i had a bit of a hard time with her as the narrator, too- especially with some of the TSTL things she did. why didn't she tell her friend, shane, what was going on so he could have her back? that didn't make any sense to me.i also didn't see any "Breadcrumbs" that led me to see the ending was going to be what it was. i kind of suspected it, but that was just a guess on my part.
Excellent points Barry. I'd have to go back and re-read (no thank you) to see what breadcrumbs were left. Although I didn't suspect the ending, it didn't totally surprise me. Maybe I wasn't as disappointed in it because I never like Maya anyway, so the ending didn't bother me too much. Ewww, that doesn't make me sound too nice. Sherry, I think Shane was the only character I liked in this book!
At the end we knew why she did not trust Shane. She knew her thoughts, she just did not share them with us.
Barry wrote: "At the end we knew why she did not trust Shane. She knew her thoughts, she just did not share them with us."lol, very good point, barry.
I was thinking today about Shutter Island, another book that sparked controversy here. We also had a case where we saw things that were not true through the protagonist's eyes. Of course, he was nuts.Still, the device did not go over well.
I just finished it, I admit partly because this comment thread awaited me. It took a couple of weeks partly due to my not liking any of the characters. Maya seemed "off" somehow, she was disconnected from Lily, which I think was the main off putting thing to me. Leaving Lily with Eddie at Soccer Day after acting as if he was a drunk and poor parent seemed odd, not telling Lily she was going seemed odd. It was revealing to read of her PTSD, inability to sleep, auditory nightmares and to think of the thousands like her who have served and now suffer the disconnection she felt.
I did not see the ending coming at all. In hindsight she might have seemed to know details she couldn't have. I wonder if the family hadn't gone after her would it have ended?
Barry: I can see parallels to Shutter Island in that we are fooled into trusting what turns out to be an untrustworthy person. In this case Maya's post combat trauma led us to ignore possible story gaps and to wonder about the nanny cam video reality in the context of her obviously stressful situation as a new widow. A lot of mirrors to this tale. Barry wrote: "I was thinking today about Shutter Island, another book that sparked controversy here. We also had a case where we saw things that were not true through the protagonist's eyes. Of course, he was nuts.."
Barry wrote: "***Spoiler Alert****One of my hardest and fastest rules in reading is that if the author is presenting the book through the eyes, ears, and mind of a particular character, that person;s thoughts ..."
This book really gobsmacked me.. I did not see the ending coming AT ALL. Which is what Harlan prides himself on. At first I sort of admired it for the ending -- rare when an author kills off his narrator -- but the more I think about it the more I am reminded that I really don't like the "unreliable narrator" device. It feels like a trick played on the reader. Which goes back to Barry's golden rule of reading... you need to be able to trust the facts/events that are being placed in front of you.
Sherry wrote: "i agree, barry. i had a bit of a hard time with her as the narrator, too- especially with some of the TSTL things she did. why didn't she tell her friend, shane, what was going on so he could have ..."I agree, Sherry, I had the hardest time with her reason for withholding stuff unnecessarily (it seemed) to people she could trust, especially Shane. Toward the end I started to dislike Maya because Shane was clearly only operating in her best interest. I had a moment of panic in the final scene with the nanny and her brother where I thought "oh no, don't tell me Shane is in on it too!".
I wasn't wild about the epilogue, either. Sure, I didn't mind hearing how everyone turned out, but it seemed rather unnecessary. And suddenly popping into Shane's head after an entire book of Shane being a bit of an enigma (a la Joe Pike) seemed, well, wrong.
Dawn wrote: "Excellent points Barry. I'd have to go back and re-read (no thank you) to see what breadcrumbs were left. Although I didn't suspect the ending, it didn't totally surprise me. Maybe I wasn't as disa..."Dawn, I agree with you. I never warmed up to Maya, but throughout the book I thought it was maybe because Harlen had presented her as this somewhat cold military type.
Carol: Harlan fooled me quite well too. I guess withholding stuff was a symptom of keeping secrets. Which as Barry pointed out isn't fair. Carol/Bonadie wrote: "This book really gobsmacked me.. I did not see the ending coming AT ALL. Which is what Harlan prides himself on. At first I sort of admired it for the ending .....
I had the hardest time with her reason for withholding stuff unnecessarily (it seemed) to people she could trust, especially Shane"
I was annoyed too barry. The whole way we were made to believe he could be alive and the suspense was built around this aand why he faked his death.It was also weird that she was focused on finding her sisters killer when she already knew who it was.
Apart from that the ending was good with eddie redeeming himself was great. I agree that shane being the narrator at the end was odd but nice to give that circle of life and rebirth with hope that maya's spirit was some how passed on. The Ptsd aspect and thoughts about inanities of regular life after facing life and death in war/combat was interesting. Maya's stress and pain of losing friends and fellow soldiers leading her to not care if she killed civillians was also an interesting character development/admission.
Maya's death was quite easy to absorb and it gave the feeling of peace and comfort that there was no more suffering. It also gave the opportunity to put judith away for her families crimes.
Jack: I have three thoughts that spring to mind from your comments, thanks for sharing them. First it is hard to love a book that annoys you as this unreliable narrator did so many of us.
Second, I agree that Maya's death gave closure to the ending and possibly brought her some peace.
And third I did find the detail and my subsequent consideration of the impact from PTSD added to the story and might partly explain Maya's actions and the feeling of disconnection she was giving. It's sad to think that giving up, letting go, and not caring if others are hurt/ not trusting anyone may be an easier path for those suffering the effects.
Jack wrote: "I was annoyed too ......
.The Ptsd aspect and thoughts about inanities of regular life after facing life and death in war/combat was interesting. Maya's stress and pain of losing friends and fellow soldiers leading her to not care if she killed civillians was also an interesting character development/admission.
Maya's death was quite easy to absorb and it gave the feeling of peace and comfort that there was no more suffering. It also gave the opportunity to put judith away for her families crimes. ."
I just finished this book and I did not like the ending for the reasons Barry brought out in the initial post. I should have been moved to go back and look for breadcrumbs - instead I just chucked the book. I was so annoyed I skipped the next book in my TBR which was a Coben book. It was a very weak attempt at an unreliable narrator. I felt it was better done in The Girl on the Train- at least then I knew the narrator was six sheets to the wind so I trusted her at my own peril. Here I was like why is this woman so cold? Why does she treat her daughter with all the warmth of a soup can? What is up with this woman? She came across as a sociopath to me. How do her thoughts not reveal she killed him????? Like she broke the fourth wall, looked at Coben and said oh wait I did it? two - thirds of the way in. What was that? It made no sense.
Fair comments Christina. I was not in mind to circle back and look for breadcrumbs either. Maya was very detached. I will concede that lack of feeling could have been the PTSD as well; I know so little about it except what I have read. .
Ann wrote: "Fair comments Christina. I was not in mind to circle back and look for breadcrumbs either. Maya was very detached.
I will concede that lack of feeling could have been the PTSD as well; I know so l..."
You're right it's possible it's the PTSD. Just highly disturbing.
I will concede that lack of feeling could have been the PTSD as well; I know so l..."
You're right it's possible it's the PTSD. Just highly disturbing.
Christina- it was highly disturbing throughout the book and not relieved at the denouement, creepy. ;)Christina wrote: "Ann wrote: "You're right it's possible it's the PTSD. Just highly disturbing. ."
I agree with you, Christina. I wish I could add something positive but I'd had it with her by the end.
One of my hardest and fastest rules in reading is that if the author is presenting the book through the eyes, ears, and mind of a particular character, that person;s thoughts cannot be lying to you.
real spoiler
(view spoiler)[...If you just saw somebody yo know you killed alive, don't you think your thoughts would have revealed that? If you were searching for something other than this person, would that not show in your thoughts? Yet those thoughts were cloaked, and the PTSD or whatever would not go near explaining any confusion on that point. She also knew her husband was a murderer when she killed him,. yet her thoughts would have you believe she was searching for a truth she already knew. (hide spoiler)]