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The Sword and Laser discussion
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A Darker Shade of Magic
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ADSoM: Regarding White London, a small anecdote (more trivia than anything else, really)
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Isn't Astrid a Swedish name, as well?
Brendan wrote: "Isn't Astrid a Swedish name, as well?"Yep. Well, Scandinavian at least. :)
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Gosh, I didn't even realise. Like I said it has been a while since I read it. But yeah, Astrid is indeed a Scandinavian name, their last name is Dane, and also the language of White London uses the vowel "Ö" quite a lot, which is also prevalent in the Scandinavian languages. However, the words are quite heavy on the consonants, giving me more of Finnish, or Icelandic, vibe. All in all, I think it might not be a stretch to say that Schwab gathered some inspiration from the Nordic countries when writing White London.
Not sure why you'd be offended that Schwab might use Scandinavian words, though.Ah. Because it's London? Perhaps their Battle of Stamford Bridge went the other way?
Darren wrote: "Not sure why you'd be offended that Schwab might use Scandinavian words, though.Ah. Because it's London? Perhaps their Battle of Stamford Bridge went the other way?"
Ah, I said that as a joke! Just meant that White London isn't all that friendly and all, so maybe Schwab is harbouring some grudge towards us Scandinavians (and now I've explained the joke and we all know how funny that makes it. Damn.)
To be honest I had no idea there was a Battle of Stamford Bridge, but after perusing the Wikipedia article I agree that it does fit well with the theory. Neat!
Lina wrote: "Ah, I said that as a joke! Just meant that White London isn't all that friendly and all, so maybe Schwab is harbouring some grudge towards us Scandinavians (and now I've explained the joke and we all know how funny that makes it. Damn.)"Sometimes I need things explained to me. :)
"Sometimes I need things explained to me. :) "As do we all :)
I wonder if there are similar explanations for Red and Black that make them less arbitrary than they appear? I'm not far, and no linguist, but Red feels very French.Black I think we can safely assume is Welsh
(I kid! I kid!)
Rob Secundus wrote: "I wonder if there are similar explanations for Red and Black that make them less arbitrary than they appear? I'm not far, and no linguist, but Red feels very French."
Red feels kind of mediterranean, in my opinion.
Rob Secundus wrote: "I wonder if there are similar explanations for Red and Black that make them less arbitrary than they appear? What if in Red the witch hunts never happened?
Mediterranean maybe. The language sounds romantic at least. W/r/t witch hunts, were they ever a big deal in England? Iirc they were much bigger in America and more Calvinisty countries.Could anyone post the name of the red river and red London's common tongue? I'm doing the audiobook, and spellings might be useful here
Rob Secundus wrote: "Mediterranean maybe. The language sounds romantic at least. W/r/t witch hunts, were they ever a big deal in England? Iirc they were much bigger in America and more Calvinisty countries.Could anyo..."
Depends on the era. There was an intense outbreak of witch trials during the English Civil war. The colonies had some of the later out breaks the most notable being Salem in the late 17th, but it wasn't much of a thing in any of those places by the early 19th century when our book is set. Generally thought of as "the time everyone lost their darn minds" in similar fashion to how we think of it now.
The river = the Isle
Language = Arnesian
There is a French river of this name. On the written page the language does not read like French. I wonder if the audio book is benefiting from cues the reader is working in through accent and pronounciation.
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Red London River: Isle
Red London Language: Arnesian
White London River: Sijlt
White London Language: Maktahn
I think White was based on a complete viking takeover of Britain and Red is based either on a continuation/evolution of Roman Britian or the continuation of Plantagent Britain or a Britain that did not loose its possessions on the continent, and indeed expanded them.
Nathan wrote: "I think White was based on a complete viking takeover of Britain and Red is based either on a continuation/evolution of Roman Britian or the continuation of Plantagent Britain or a Britain that did..."Either of those are really great explanations, IMO.
E.J. Xavier wrote: On the written page the language does not read like French. I wonder if the audio book is benefiting from cues the reader is working in through accent and pronounciation.
Hmm. Maybe. Does it look at all Latin? Or is it not romantic?
Nathan wrote: "I think White was based on a complete viking takeover of Britain..."This was my thought on it too. Going back to the era of the Danelaw rather than Stamford Bridge, you have a time when half of England was conquered by Scandinavians and others were settling in eastern Ireland and the western isles of Scotland. If I remember rightly, recapturing London from the Scandinavians was one of Alfred the Great's significant achievements, so a Danish London fits nicely with that.
And the more I think about it, the equation of power with the aggression of the Vikings, as well as connecting the colour white to the conquerors from a land of ice and snow (at least that's how I imagined it as a kid reading about the Vikings), that makes a neat sort of sense.
Probably inferring too much here, but I also know that Victoria was taking a class purely about Vikings at the time she was writing this book...
I kind of wonder whether Red London's ruling class had wandered over from Grey London at some point, and that's why English is sort of pasted on at the top of the social structure.
Joanna wrote: "I kind of wonder whether Red London's ruling class had wandered over from Grey London at some point, and that's why English is sort of pasted on at the top of the social structure."That makes a neat sort of sense, and may also be the reason why there used to be magic in Grey London but now there isn't. The magicians of Grey London made their way into the Red world and took all of the magic with them.
I posted about this little fun fact on my tumblr, ending it with "coincidence?". Perhaps 20 minutes later I was filled with fangirly delight as I was notified that V.E Schwab herself had not only reblogged my post, but she had also added a comment to it. What she commented?
" ;) "
I'm not sure if I, as a Swede, should feel slightly offended or not.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to reading further discussion about the book as more people finish it!