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1Q84
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1Q84 - our spring 2014 Chunky Read
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Monise
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rated it 5 stars
Jun 19, 2014 11:32AM
I agree with Sheila when she says that cat town is only another way to refer to 1q84.
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Mod
I agree there is an underlying "sex" theme in this whole book. Why?
There's definetly a subtext of sex throughout the whole book. I think it is murakami's way of showing us the same act in different shades of right and wrong scheme.I just started reading book number three and i got to say: i miss aomame from book 1. she is still strong, but she was a bad ass and much cooler without all this thoughts about tengo. i realize both of them do this.... but, i really miss her. i don't know. to me, book 2 could be called: it is all about tengo...
I am in another group that is reading The Wind Up Bird Chronicle. So, as I am waiting for the next section on our reading schedule, I started that one. And, it is just as odd. Another 30 year old main character, another 1984 setting, another set of unexplained stuff, and lots more musings.
Ready to discuss the first half of book 3?SPOILER WARNING!!!
Well, we now have an additional voice as Ushi now is getting a regular slot in the rotation of chapters. How do you like his addition?
Aomame is pregnant and she thinks it is Tango's baby by some magical impregnation? Hmmmm? I am uncomfortable with these mysterious awareness of bits of information. It is just too easy to move a plot that way. It feels as if the author is cheating. Thoughts?
And, Tango's father has left his body and is a ghost haunting Aomame's door? Again, Tango just knows that his father is out there collecting fees?
Why didn't Aomame see Tango when he climbed back onto that slide? I thought she was watching for him every night.
Why these side stories about sex like this night with the nurse? It feels pointless and the story is already quite long.
Does anyone else hav experience with magical realism? How does this compare?
I will be leving this discussion on Tuesday. I am not sure how long. My mother was in a serious car accident last week. I will be heading to Jersey. Things do not look good. I would appreciate prayers.
Mod
Irene, I will keep your family in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs to you. Hoping that you bring back good news.
Thank you for the prayers. I do not want her to suffer. And, I want wisdom to know how to be the best for her, my brother, my sister. I know that, even though I can't experience God directly in this situation, God will not leave her or any of us.
Irene, believe your instincts. Wisdom is there. You'll know what needs doing in your heart. I'm so sorry for your pain. Your family is in my prayers. {{Hugs}}
Thanks, Right now all my instincts are saying is to vomit.
Mod
To answer Irene's last posted questions:
I'm not a big fan of the narration by Ushi. I prefer just hearing Aomame and Tango's side of the story. But I guess they needed to let us know what was going on "behind the scenes".
I think Aomame being pregnant is very strange too, and her just "automatically assuming" that it IS Tango's baby is just....WEIRD. Why would someone think that?
And then the ghost think for the Fee collector knocking on doors, and Tango telling his father in the coma to stop doing that. This is just WEIRD too! The plot of this book is just getting more out there.
I have read a couple other magical realism stories, and this book does not seem like magical realism to me, it just seems like out their weird science fiction of some sort. Maybe it will come together in the end.
How is everyone else doing with this book? Who is still reading? We are, schedule wise, on our last week of reading. If you have given up, please speak up too. Let us know why. No bad grades here, so if you don't want to finish this, feel free to say why.
It's been awhile but doesn't Aomame "logically" think out her pregnancy and who the father may be? I liked the fee collector knocking on the door in this part. There's something of a longing or a wanting to make amends in this knocking. The timing of the knocking (coinciding with the coma) is such that it could be the only way this man has of helping his son. The knocking started after Tengo started to tell his father about his life and his thoughts.
In the father's life, his job is his all; he had no other activities outside of work. Knocking on doors is the only way he knows to be of help.
I saw the knocking as a way of showing that he (father) heard what Tengo said and a way of his reaching out and extending an olive branch to Tengo & showing his love for his son.
...I can't remember Ushi's story.....
....is Ushi the guy in the apartment in Tengo's building? If so, Tengo's dad knocks on his door, too, right? If I'm remembering the right people, this ties in with Tengo's dad trying to help him. In the case of knocking on Ushi's door, he's trying to scare Ushi away from Tengo's place of abode (place of safety/refuge).
It's kind of sad that Tengo's father's entire life is wrapped up in knocking on people's doors. He missed so much by limiting his exposure to life to knocking. Perhaps Murakami is trying to point out that one should live life to the fullest; not let it get too narrow. One misses so much with narrowness.
Mod
Maybe there will be more to the story of Aomame's pregnacy, but so far all I got was she is pregnant even though she hasn't had sex with anyone for many months, so she just automatically knows she got pregnant the night of the big storm, and then automatically assumes Tango is the father, even though she hasn't seen Tango since she was 10 years old. Why would she just assume her immaculate conception was the result of a boy she held hands with as a child???
Mod
Sheila wrote: "Maybe there will be more to the story of Aomame's pregnacy, but so far all I got was she is pregnant even though she hasn't had sex with anyone for many months, so she just automatically knows she got pregnant the night of the big storm, and then automatically assumes Tango is the father, even though she hasn't seen Tango since she was 10 years old. Why would she just assume her immaculate conception was the result of a boy she held hands with as a child??? ..."The storm was all about forces being let loose. It occurred on the night that Leader died, didn't it? The Little People were angry. (that's how I saw it)
I never got why the Fee guy knocked on Tengo's door except that maybe it was to connect with his son or to get Fuka-Eri out?
I'd have to reread the book to remember Aomame's reasons for her pregnancy.
I remember seeing the pregnancy as a logical effect to Fuka-Eri using herself as a conduit to Aomame's ....um.....uterus. The storm brought the different planes of reality together for a short while....somehow.
Mod
Maybe the author should have had Aomame have sex with the Leader before she killed him. Then at least we could have had a connection that way....Tango to Fuka-Eri magically connecting to The Leader (her father) to Aomame.
Does it help to think of Fate as a character in this novel? Then the world/plane/reality of 1Q84 may be a means of allowing Fate to take control and manipulate these two together because they couldn't or wouldn't do it themselves. Tengo & Aomame are completely isolated from life in their own ways. Their only human contact is from casual, meaningless sex. Even Tengo's long-term girlfriend is casual and meaningless, in that there is no future, no connection of souls.
Both of them yearn for something and yet that yearning itself is kept deep inside. The only sign that each of them wants a connection is their memory of their 10-year old selves and the hand holding. This is their connection: the memory (and possibly the actual happening) of this human contact.
Yet, each of them does nothing to bring human contact into their lives. So.....Fate (the character) steps into this book, alters reality & the planes of their lives and works to get them together.
Both of them come from cold, distant families so they don't really know how to connect with anyone. They're learning, though......in a very abstract kind of way.
Mod
The whole book is filled with casual, meaningless sex, yet the one pregnancy in the book results from...magic and a lightning storm???? I am just having a hard time accepting it! :-)
I don't want to give away spoilers so am trying to be careful of what I say.When I finished this book, I had an idea of what Murakami was trying to say. I don't know if I'm even on the right path and am really looking forward to everyone's ideas at the end (waiting impatiently, really....hurry up and read, people!....joking & laughing).
What I came away with is that this book is telling an age-old story (one we've read many times) but in a new and intriguing way.
The sex in the book is meaningless. It's meant to be. It shows the disconnection that Tengo, Aomame and everyone else involved have towards other people and society in general. These two are completed disengaged and isolated. The point of the sex is to show us that, I think.
However, in their past, both Tengo and Aomame had one moment of connection.....and that was with each other when they held hands at the age of 10. Although in our lives, this may be insignificant, it was pivotal to both of them because of their family backgrounds, which kept them disconnected from both their families and their society. Neither one of them connected with anyone, ever. Think about how sad and lonely that is for anyone, especially a child.
Then....for one brief moment....they connected with someone. That connection never broke. They are tied together always (and....jumping ahead to their current predicament..... what is a child/pregnancy but a physical result of a connection? Perhaps Murakami is showing that they have always and will always be connected?).
However, from the moment of their hand holding, they continued to live disconnected (and sex-filled) lives....but still yearning for some sort of connection, which always drew them back to the other (in thought but never action).
Both are passive beings, brought up to follow, which means that they don't try to find each other (or anyone else). That's an active move. Neither one of them is capable of that.
So, Fate intervenes. Aomame goes through a conduit (the tunnel) to a plane/reality that allows for Fate to act. Tengo goes through a conduit (Air Chrysalis) that brings him to the same plane/reality and that allows for Fate to act.
But.......Fate may start to bring them together yet somewhere along the way, they start to think, ponder and contemplate what's happening. That's the sort of action that brings from it action.
The elements of fate, decision, interaction, serendipity, etc. seem to play very heavily in this novel. What brings two people together? Choice? The "right" decisions? Action? Fate? Written in the stars (or, in this case, the two moons :D)?
What makes Life worthwhile? Joy? Happiness? Personal fulfillment? How are these brought about but by action, realization of one's dreams/wishes, etc and awareness of one's self?
The magical realism of the plane/reality that Tengo & Aomame are in contains such elements as the Little People with all their powers, which includes an incredible anger, fear and/or panic at losing their Leader that leads to a giant storm. Conduits are everywhere in this plane/reality (its what got Tengo & Aomame in their predicament in the first place) and the energy of the Little People's emotions/storm can open conduits.
Not plausible in our world but plausible in the world of 1Q84. LOL!
It occurred to me while gardening yesterday:Wasn't hand holding an old form of either engagement or marriage? If so that adds another element to the story of Tengo & Aomame.
Mod
I appreciate you joining in the discussion though. I am going to be really curious to get everyone's opinions of what they thought of this, as it still isn't making sense to me!
Interesting point about the hand holding though! I hadn't considered that.
I'm curious, too, as to how people found the book. I've never been able to discuss my thoughts on it or what I think the book was about. I hope you all don't mind me jumping in? Yeah...the hand-holding part is a new thought to me, too. I didn't have it while reading the book; it just popped into my mind while in the garden yesterday. It's interesting and does seem like a good fit for this story....but that doesn't mean that it is.
Mod
How is everyone doing?
I should be finishing up tonight. I am really curious to see how this will end!
Irene wrote: "I will be leving this discussion on Tuesday. I am not sure how long. My mother was in a serious car accident last week. I will be heading to Jersey. Things do not look good. I would appreciate..."I'm so sorry.
Irene wrote: "Ready to discuss the first half of book 3?SPOILER WARNING!!!
Well, we now have an additional voice as Ushi now is getting a regular slot in the rotation of chapters. How do you like his additio..."
I enjoyed the addition of Ushi. I think it added an extra dimension to the story.
I think the pregnancy was very hard to accept; it kind of came out of nowhere. I felt it was very
Twilight Zone.
I did think the book had a lot of sex that did not add to the plot and I'm not usually a prude....LOL
Mod
What did everyone think of the book, and of the ending?
What did it all mean, in your opinion?
I have to admit I am confused. It was just too strange for me! Climbing back up the stairs to get back to the real world? But was it the "real" world, or was in a new alternate world, since the tiger was facing the wrong way on the sign?
Was the nurse at the hospital where Tango's dad died his mom reincarnated?? She mentions at one time she remembers being strangled and dying in another life, and then we learn that Tango's mom was strangled when he was an infant.
I have lots more questions, but I'll start with those.
Hey everyone, I'm truly behind the schedule. I got really upset with the whole pregnancy thing and now I'm reading in slow motion...lol.Once I finish, I'll come back.
Sheila - I thought when they climbed back up the stairs - it was to the real world.
I also think that the nurse at the hospital was Tango's mom.
To me it was almost like - for Tango and Aomame - the other reality was all relational to their lives, their pasts??
For instance - did anyone else feel that there was something of Aomame's past in the Leader's compound? Her parents were also in a cult. Was it the same one? Was Fuka-Eri an extension of Aomame, if Aomame had not escaped from the cult her family lived in?
Sheila, I took the nurse's story to be of Tengo's mom, too. Throughout this book, Tengo is putting his past to rest in his mind, and the disappearance of his mom was a big worry and mystery to him. In order to find peace, he had to find out what happened to her. Julie, from what I remember of what I thought, I didn't associate Aomame's past with Leader's compound. I thought of her past as something more along the lines of being a member of a group such as the Jehovah Witnesses.
I think that Tengo & Aomame find themselves in a third reality at the end of the book. The tiger on the Esso sign is facing the wrong way.....so things are different again.
Somewhere near the end, it struck me what the book might be about: family.
I may have the parts mixed up in my head (where one stops and the other starts; its been awhile since I've read the book) so this might be slightly off but its close:
The beginning introduces us to cold, distant, regime-orientated families. The children (Tengo & Aomame) are isolated, alone, sad, confused and feel unloved.
Part 2 finds them in 1Q84, where things aren't what they seem.
Aomame's family continues to be uninvolved but Tengo talks with his father, tells him his thoughts and concerns. His father (albeit in a coma) tries to help Tengo find Aomame in his own way. His entire life was spent as an NHK fee collector, he knocked on doors.......so his spirit went out and knocked on Aomame's door (to bring her to Tengo?) and Ushikawa's door (to scare him away from the couple?). It's the only way he knows to help and to show Tengo his love. But, of course, Tengo doesn't feel or know about it. He still feels unloved and alone in regards to his family but he also feels some sort of peace towards his dad in the end. He also finds out the fate of his mother and can put that bit of his past to rest.
Although things are put to rest (as much as possible), they are still alone.
When Tengo & Aomame meet, they find that both of them feel strongly that, no matter what, they MUST protect their child (as yet unborn). It is paramount over everything else, including the two of them. This feeling of togetherness, protectiveness and complete dedication to someone defenseless brings them to the third reality, where they'll have to find a way that is alien to them both but that will work for all three of them.
They are no longer isolated and alone. They have it all; they are a family.
Mod
I did like the fact that Tango and Aomame finally got together in the end. But the possible "new alternate world" now has me wondering what their life is going to be like now? What weirdness will be in THIS world?
Is her baby going to be a normal baby? Or is it going to be the new "Leader", or a "Receiver" or something? The baby wasn't conceived normally, so will it be "special"??
So was the Leader a good guy or a bad guy? First I thought he was scary. Then it seems he was supposed to be a nice guy, friends with the professor, etc. Except he raped little girls (or let little girls rape him while he was paralyzed.) Actually, that almost felt like the author "justifying" that child sex, which I didn't really like. But the girl who showed up for protection with the dowager had her uterus "destroyed" so what did they do to her? I still don't get that.
Good questions, Sheila!I guess, if Tengo & Aomame are learning a new way of life (forging a family) there will be all sorts of weirdnesses in this new world. Neither one of them has a clue about what a family is like or how one runs & is maintained. It'll be a new world for them.
I think the weirdnesses of the second world (conduits, Leaders, etc) were part of the "fate" aspect of the story, meant to bring Tengo & Aomame together. These things don't belong in the 3rd reality of normalness & family.
The baby will be special because all babies are special. It'll be particularly special to Tengo & Aomame, who will notice, enjoy and spend time with it (as wasn't done to them).
I don't get the child sex thing either and don't remember enough to comment on how it fits into the storyline. In general, I thought Leader was a good guy who was somehow manipulated by the Little People. I can't remember how, though, so I can't substantiate that.
As for having a uterus destroyed, I've heard that that can happen if a child is too young for intercourse. I'm not sure why this child was injured when so many others weren't. Maybe she was younger than most of the girls?
Mod
I think it is one of those that you just have to ponder over after you have finished it.
DRAT!!!! Just typed out a long post. Just before I hit post, my computer did some strange noise and shut down. So, here I go again.Well, I am back temporarily. First a quick update on my mother. She is medically out of the woods, although it will be some time before she is home. On Saturday she was transferred to an acute rehab unit. She is in a great deal of pain and her spirits are poor. My plan is to return when the rehab concludes to assist her as she adjusts to living at home. We do not know if she will have any residual loss at this point. I got into Erie at 3:15 this morning, grabbed about 3 hours of sleep before coming into the office. I wanted to read this thread.
Love the amount of conversation in my absence. Here are some of my thoughts.
Aomame’s pregnancy…. I had no problem accepting new rules for this alternate reality, that she might have been able to conceive outside of physical contact. What bothered me was her ability to correctly assume it was Tango’s child when she had not seen him in 20 years. Why not assume she was carrying the child of the Leader since she was with him the night she believes she conceived? Why not assume that she was impregnated by one of the Little People who were so active that night?
Tango’s father… I like the idea that he might have been trying to help his son by his ghostly knocking. It never occurred to me. I just assumed that his single-minded dedication to his job took on a life independent to his physical or conscious reality. I assumed that he was knocking on other doors also, but because we were limited to these three narrators, we did not have knowledge of that. His approach was exactly the same at Ushi’s door and at Aomame’s door, so I did not see his action as intentional, just habitual.
The nurse… Missed that connection between her and Tango’s mother. But, since she seduced him, that is gross. But, I did find it ironic that he was so upset with that early childhood memory of his mother's infidelity yet he was having an affair with a married woman and mother. So, was he constantly having sex with a mother stand-in?
Fate…. I had read some professional comments on this novel and on another work by this author. It stated that he was concerned with exploring the interplay between fate and personal choice. I had not thought of 1Q84 as a type of metaphor for fate, but that would make sense.
Final Reality…. I think that reverse image of the tiger indicates that we are in a new reality, not a radically new reality such as 1Q84, but in the sense of the proverbial saying that one can not step into the same river twice. Tango and Aoemame are different than the people they were prior to their experience. They might walk the same streets, shop at the same stores and talk to the same people as before, but they are so radically different that reality has indeed changed for them. Maybe that is part of the struggle I was having with understanding the nature of 1Q84. I could not understand how they could be in this completely new world yet interact with all the people they had known in 1984. But, if I understand this in less magical terms and more metaphorical terms, than fate is constantly veering a person off course into life-changing experiences. Whether grieving the loss of a loved one or finding religion, falling in love or coping with sudden serious chronic illness or disability, a person can feel as if nothing is the same again? These experiences change us so dramatically that it can feel as if the world appears incomprehensively different. So, maybe in a sense, this is an allegory of life changing events.
Ushi…. Why did we need the violent murder? If this religious cult is going to allow Tango and Aomame to leave1Q84 so easily, why did Ushi have to be brutalized? Why did Buzz Cut and Pony Tail need to find Aomame anyway? Nor, did I get the need for the exploding dog, the severely injured 10 year old or the strange Eriko? Where does Eriko go after Aomame and Tango leave the 1Q84 world? What happened to Tango’s girl friend? Do they simply disappear as a metaphor of the many people whose lives intersect with ours for a short time, but who we never see again?
So many thoughts, but I better post this before I lose it again.
Mod
Aomame's pregnancy. Yes, her knowing it was Tango's was the weirdest part. I would have also thought she would have thought the Leader was the father. Or the Little People. Why did she know it was Tango's??
Ushi's violent murder. I am not sure why we needed that in the story either. The violent murder, and so many of the weird sex scenes could have been left out or toned down in my opinion. And the exploding dog! Why blow up the dog?? That was never explained either.
I am also confused about what happened to Eriko, and Tango's married girlfriend. There sure are a lot of unanswered questions in this book. Maybe that is the point though? Life is full of unanswered questions. And things are not always what they seem.
Well, it has been a week since the end of the book was open for discussion. Has anyone else finished it? Any additional thoughts or comments? Did you find the ending satisfying? Did you enjoy the book? This book, at more than 900 pages, was quite an investment of time; was it worth it?This book has received much praise by critics and average readers alike. Why do you think this book has been so widely praised? Do you think the praise is warrented? Why or why not?
Due to my crazy schedule I completely missed this discussion. Trying to catch up on these posts, but I can already see that there are some great comments here.Irene - I am so glad that your mom is doing better. I'll pray for emotional as well as physical healing for her.
I have The Wind Up Bird Chronicles but haven't started it yet. It doesn't look like a quick read, either ;)
Amy, How far along are you? What do you think so far?
I read the whole book before this group read started :) I loved it and am a fan of Murakami's work. I've read several of his other books and enjoyed them, also. His writing is an interesting blend of sci-fi and magical realism.
So, Amy, what do you make of the meaning of the story? What exactly is 1Q84? How can they be in a new reality while still interacting with folk from the old reality? What do you make of the tiger facing the opposite direction? Is the taxi driver correct that there is only one reality? Or is the Leader right when he speaks of a second reality from which a person can never return? What does it mean to have the taxi driver warn Aomame that things are not always what they seem? Which elements of this book are not what they seem?
In general, I think this was a story about existentialism, God, and religion. The different realities are the results of the choices we make and endless possibilities. The tiger facing the opposite direction was a symbol that (at least some) things had changed. The taxi driver thinks there is only one reality because that is all he's ever known. Most of us live in a state of growth and remaking ourselves, which is like creating new realities. We even see our past differently as we grow (whether our sight is more accurate or not depends upon the type and direction of the growth).
I do think the leader was right and that there are always realities from which we can never return because some choices in life are "fatal."
The taxi driver's warning is another foreshadowing that the world will not be as Aomame remembers it.
I'm not sure that we will ever know what elements of this book are not as they seem because life is that way - our ability to discern "truth" is always clouded by our subjective experience of living. I think that was part of the message of the book.
Mod
Amy, you have given me much to think about.Are there any other voices who have read along with us that can give their thoughts on this book before we close this discussion?
