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1Q84 - our spring 2014 Chunky Read
message 51:
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Irene
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rated it 4 stars
May 27, 2014 01:31PM
Yes, Fuka-Eri claims that her story is real, not fiction. And, she describes a world with two moons in it. Now Aomame sees the two moons giving credance to Fuka-Eri's narrative. But, no one else sees these moons? Aomame is interacting with people in her "old" world, so why does she see something no one else sees? Are they just too busy to look at the sky? Do they simply discount what hey don't understand or simply see what they expect? Is there really two moons?
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Irene, I am confused about the two moons. It seems nobody sees them but Aomame, or maybe they are "normal" to everyone else? Though she asked the one man if he had seen "the moon" and he saw it that night, and made no comment about "moon" vs "moons".
I don't think others see the two moons, or if they do, they are not aware of noticing them. Only Aomame and Fuka-Eri seem to see them. When Tango's editor gives him advice on his rewrite of the story, he tells him that it is wonderful, he only needs to include more description in passages like the night sky with two moons. He tells Tango that you do not need to include much detail in describing something with which the reader is familiar, but when it is unfamiliar the author needs to describe it in more detail so the reader can imagine it. This indicates that others do not see the two moons.
How are people doing with the reading schedule? We are scheduled to begin the discussion of Book 2 on Sunday. But, we have had little discussion all week. So, does this mean that people are still reading the second half of Book 1? Does it mean that no one has been inspired to make any comments based on that reading? Would people like another week to discuss the remainder of Book 1 and read the first half of Book 2? Or, are people ready to talk about Ch. 1-12 of Book 2 on Sunday?
I've just finished the first book. This is my first Murakami novel and I'm hooked. I'm starting to like Tengo, and i really like fukaeri and aomame. Tengo's novel took me by surprise though. Now i have doubts about aomame character. is she even "real"? besides, i still don't get the little people.
I'm trying to keep up. I haven't had much reading time with work being so busy.
I am a little behind, but I think that I can get caught up in order to join in the discussion by Monday. I am enjoying it. I am wanting to know more about the little people, especially if they are to be similar to big brother in the Orwell novel.
Monise, Why do you think Aomame is not real?So far, it sounds as if people are only at the end of Book 1. Would you like us to discuss Book 1 this coming week and postpone the discussion of Ch. 1-12 of Book 2 for another week?
Irene, I am thinking that it might be a good idea to postpone. I was trying to get caught up, but it does not look like I will be able to.
Well, it is Sunday morning. I have not seen any votes to move on to the discussion of Book 2, so let us shift the reading schedule by one week. We will continue to discuss the second half of Book 1 this week.What are you making of the story so far? We now have two young women traumatized by this community. We have had a glimpse of little people coming out of the second girl. Aomame and Fuka-Eri alone report seeing a second moon. And, we have an initial warning that things are not always what they seem, that there can not be two realities. So, can Aomame really be living in an alternative reality of 1Q84? Is that second moon actually something other than a second moon? Are these little people the personification of some evil inside us, some extraterestrial beings, some spiritual entity?
Has your perception of Aomame or Tango changed so far?
irene, i've been thinking: it is only after tengo remembers aomame that she's has started to see the two moons. what if she is part of his novel? maybe i'm just two intrigued by the two moons.
Interesting thought. I did not pick up the connection between Tango's memory of Aomame and her seeing the second moon. If you are correct, I think it is interesting that we, the reader, sees her first in this novel. And, her story seems independant of the little glimpses of the Air Crysalus story we are given.
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I am headed off to a retreat tomorrow morning, so won't be posting for a few days. But, please keep the comments coming.
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This book is strange to me, in that the story seems "realistic" at times, yet then there are these really "weird" things that happen, which make me go "what the...???"
Is this because things are not what they appear? Like the prediction of the taxi driver at the beginning? The two moons, and the little people marching out of the girls mouth are making me wonder! And what is up with the dog exploding??? Thoughts?
I am wondering if it is possible that Aomame could be a part of Tengo's story. It was not until Tango was told to add to more description to the two moons that Aomame started to see them. Then there is Tengo's memory of the girl in the religious cult that we learn that Aomame was the girl. I am still wondering though if it has to do with Aomame's travel through the emergency exit of the highway, just as Tengo's traveling to meet the professor, allowing them to see an alternate reality that has them linked together. I am also wondering about the NHK fees, because they have been bought about by multiple characters, and there can be some subtle brainwashing via the TV, which neither Aomame and Tengo have a TV.
I think Aomame is part of Tengo's past and Murakami is really good at intervining and connecting people and events. So it feels like she is part of his story.
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Luwanda, interesting idea about the NHK fees. You are right, they do keep being brought up, and I don't know why.
Are there any other theories that anyone has about what may be happening? Why things are why they are? Or are there any little things that you wonder about?
NHK fees are, in Japan, as our cable bills are to us. We get billed every month and pay. In Japan, the NHK guy comes around to collect the payments. It was so odd that I had to google NHK fees when I was reading the book. It seems a natural thing in Japan. :D
Just googling it now, I found this from January 2013:
http://forum.gaijinpot.com/forum/comm...
Seems like the NHK guys are still knocking on doors. :D
Sheila...I could tell you but that would be giving the book away. LOL! This is such a good story. I'm really enjoying all the comments here.
The dog was the work of the little people I think, Sheila.What's up with the weird professor that wants to pay/blackmail Tango? He reminded me of Bernard Marx from Brave New World, with his weird looks.
Mod
I was thinking the Little People for the dog too Monise. But how did they make it blow up? And why?? What is the "purpose" of these Little People?? The blackmailing guy is weird too! There are lots of weird things in this story! LOL
I'm back. By the blackmailing guy, do you mean Ushi? He had me scratching my head also. At first I was certain he was dangerous to Tango. But, after a while, I wondered if he was offering genuine warning and potential protection. There is so much ambiguity in this book. What is real and what is illusion? Who is evil and who is good? Who should be trusted and who should not be?
I'm drawing a blank on the blackmailing guy. So far, I've followed all comments but I can't remember this guy or Ushi.
Ushi is his nick name, but I can't begin to spell his actual name. He is the guy that comes to Tango's school unannounced to offer Tango money. He claims that it is some sort of fellowship grant. He does not have to do anything to earn this new writer's fellowship money. Tango refuses it. The man makes him uncomfortable, the offer smells fishy and he does not need the money. It is supposed to give him time to write that novel he has been working on. But, in actuality, it is to silence Air Crysolus. But, the guy won't take no for an answer and his terrific offer turns into a warning that Tango is over his head with this story and that ominous things are being unleashed and Ushi is trying to protect Tango from forces beyond his understanding.
I read this book last year so I probably won't be able to remember enough to participate in the discussions. I'm enjoying reading everyone's comments though.
Are we ready to discuss the first half of Book 2? Did everyone have a chance to catch up last week?What do you think?
What is the meaning of the story about the town of cats? It has to be significant since the reader is told of it while Tango is on his way to see his father and he tells it again to Fuka-Eri. (Ch. 8 was the short story I read in the New Yorker quite some time ago.) With so much made of the alienation of both Aomame and Tango from family, I was surprised that we met Tango's father.
And, what do you make of Aomame and the Leader so far. Wow, this is getting intriguing.
Things are starting to get interesting, aren't they, Irene? How far into Aomame & the Leader's story are you at?
Aomame is having her conversation with the Leader in the hotel room where she goes to kill him. She has learned of his paralysis during long periods, his claim that the girls climb on top of him when he is paralyzed. She has seen him move a heavy clock by just the power of his mind and has experienced his ability to intuit her thoughts.
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I am still trying to figure out exactly how this "alternate" world came to be. And who or what exactly these little people are. Maybe I'm over-thinking it in wanting to understand or make sense of it all. Maybe I am just supposed to be going with the flow and accepting the weirdness.
The town of cats story is interesting. Since it keeps being mentioned I figure it must have some meaning. But what?? I have no idea.
I am also well into the reading for next week's discussion and the metaphysics of this alternate reality is mind-boggling. I am also wondering if we will see that taxi cab driver from the first chapter ever again. How did he know that Aomame was headed into 1Q84? Is he responsible for her entering into this world since he was the one who sent her down that odd highway emergency exit? And, if so, who is he in relationship to the rest of the unfolding story?
We have become rather quiet in this thread. How is everyone doing in the reading? Are you enjoying it or not? Are you caught up or need more time? So, what do we make of the Leader? I expected a frightening encounter, but so far, he seems rather harmless, almost kind. Do you trust him? Do you think Aomame should kill him? Do you think she will? How does someone who appears so helpless command such fierce protection? The body guards seem to be more scary than the Leader. Is he a victim of these "little people" or is he complicit in some malicious force?
What about Ushi? Should Tango heed his warning? Is this Air Chrysalis story really unleashing destructive forces on the world, forces that were contained prior or is the story a needed warning to an ignorant population? Are there really "little people" or is this just a figment of some over active imagination? Air Chrysalis is a piece of fiction in the eyes of the public, so why is it threatening the "little people"? It is not as if the people of Japan have begun to take up arms against, to protect themselves from this force. Tango has done his job; should he walk away from a story and a project that is not really his own? Is he courageous in sticking by Eriko and her story or would wisdom tell him to recognize that there are limitations to his knowledge, to be careful of playing with a fire that he does not understand?
Mod
The leader is an interesting character. I was expecting him to be frightening too, but he isn't. I don't trust him though. There is something really "not right" with him.
I can't figure out who is sending Ushi. Someone, or something, is sending him. Who is it, and why? What is there interest in this thing?
I am really enjoying the book. I have avoided the thread to some degree because several times it gave me spoiler reports! I am in section 3 now and not sure where we are in the outline of what we could discuss.I think maybe Fuka-Eri is (and this isn't a spoiler this is a guess) the dohta of Aomame. Is that possible? Just that she seems like her in some ways - and Aomame's past has not totally been fleshed out yet...
I'm always behind, but it's because of my work schedule. I do like it. I haven't been reading the thread too much because of spoilers. LOL
Julie, we are half way through book 2. Aomame is in the hotel room withthe Leader. We do not know if her conversation with him will change her mind about her mission orif she will actually go ahead with it. Tango has visited his father in the nursing home and learned that he in fact was not his biological father (or at least that is how he understood the few lucid words the father spoke). On the train, on the way home, he has that odd bit where he thinks the little girl sitting across from him is trying to communicate something to him with her look, but maybe it is just an average mother and daughter headed to music or other class. Eriko has come out of her hiding and has asked to stay with Tango. The concept of a dota is introduced in the reading for next week's discussion on this slightly modified schedule.
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How is everyone else doing? Are people ready to discuss the second half of book 2 on Sunday?
I've only finished the first half of book 2 so far, but I really am enjoying this volume. I think the city of cats was a hint to us: aomame and tango are in a parallel world (as the leader has said) - and the train doesn't take anyone back. I like the leader and weirdly enough I trust him, much more than I ever trusted Ushi. I still don't get what dotha really means.
OK, our discussion of the end of Book 2 can begin. If you have not read that far, you will not want to read the following posts. There may be spoilers.SPOILER WARNING!
Are people as perplexed as I am?
Did you expect Aomame to go ahead and kill the Leader? Do you think she should have done it? Has she unleashed greater evil on the world?
So, the Leader is Eriko's father and the professor's good friend. did we know that already? I only caught it here. So, the Leader knew that something might go wrong because he enabled Eriko to escape by having her hide money. And, where is Eriko's mother? Did she die?
We now know the story of Air Crysalis. What is a dota exactly? Is it evil? When I think of a shadow, I usually think of a negative. Is it just the shell of the person, a type of zombi? Does it suck the life out of the person? Is that why Eriko seems so lacking in emotions and why she has never matured sexually? Wow, that seen with her paralyzing Tango and sort of raping him was odd. The Leader was telling the truth about what happened between him and the young girls.
And, explain this alternative reality. Once a person enters it, does everyone they know enter it also? After all, Tango and Aomame are in it, evidenced by the two moons. But, they still interact with the nursing home staff, the old lady and her body guard, ec. If that is the case, then soon all will be dragged into this alternative because all are connected by some degree of seperation. Or are these just shadows of the real people they knew? According to the description, people do not move between these realities.
If this were not so well written, I would be rolling my eyes. But, instead, it has me hooked.
What does everyone else think?
Mod
No, I didn't think she would kill the leader, not after the long conversation that she had with him. Has she unleashed greater evil? I don't know, but she certainly "changed" something! Her killing the leader seems to have made something change for Tango, with his "coupling" with Eriko and her being the perceiver making him the receiver. (and I still really don't know what all of that actually means!)
Yes, it does seem like the leader, who is/was Eriko's father, was friends with the professor. I have no idea about Eriko's mother. Is Eriko really Eriko, or is she an air chrysalis copy version of Eriko?
The whole air chrysalis story is confusing to me. Even though we have now been "told" the story, I can't say it makes any sense to me! LOL
Irene, your comment about if it wasn't so written you would be rolling your eyes describes me exactly! The story is so far fetched, and confusing, yet somehow it is keeping me engrossed, wanting to keep reading to find out what the heck is happening and how it is going to end!
Well, if the Air Chrysalis story is accurate, Eriko is who she says she is, she fled after she witnessed the creation of her dota. But, I still don't really understand this dota thing. Are there only dotas in this alternative reality or do they exist without our knowing it in the more traditional realm? And, what about the little Aomame dota in that final scene of part 2? I had thought that the dota was a copy of the person, but this is a younger version. Does this mean that we don't know if there are any dota of ourselves out there? Can there be multiple dotas of an individual? I guess I will find out if the dota somehow sucks the life out of the original as we see how Aomame acts in book 3. Is this part of the sacrifice she will be making for Tango to live like Leader predicted?
What do the rest of you think of the developments as we conclude book 2?
How is everyone doing? There has been very little conversation for such a strange book. Is this because people need more time to read/catch up? Do we need to take the reading schedule a bit more slowly? Is it because no one has anything worth commenting on? I have read through the mid point in part 3 to prepare for next week's discussion. I am finding it hard to put down the book. I want to find out how this ends.
I keep coming back to that taxi driver. Things are not always what they seem...; there is only one reality. Why would the author give us this immediately, then try to convince us of an alternative reality. Is this 1Q84 another reality or is it a sign of some delusion or psychosis?? The fact that we are told of certain rules of reality such as the point that people can not move between 1984 and 1Q84 which do not appear to be upheld in the story make me wonder if the reader is being sold a load of bull. Is this a novel about shared delusions such as are found in cults? The Leader is convinced that he is a vessel for other worldly messages and that he is not raping little girls because it is a holy act which he is compelled to do. Could the criminal behavior and isolation of Tango and Aomame have spun them down some road of paranoia in which "little people" are after them?
What do people think of Julie's speculation that Eriko might be the dohta of Aomame?
Is the "cat town" a metaphore for death? I wonder that because it is associated with Tango's trip to see his dying father.
I am not a fantasy reader, normally. Are there others in this thread who read fantasy regularly. How does this compare? Am I asking the wrong questions because of my unfamiliarity with the genre?
Mod
I am starting to think that the "maza" is the mother, and the "dohta" is the daughter, and that the Air Chrysalis almost makes a "clone" of someone, it makes their "daughter". I think Eriko and Aomame are too different to be mother/daughter so I am thinking Eriko is not a clone. But I could be wrong.
I'm still not sure about the cat town. I was thinking that a cat town was basically another way of saying an alternate world, or an 1Q84, like this whole book is a cat town.
I have to admit I am still really confused about what is going on in this book!
I too think that there is a strong connection between the maza and dohta - mother & daughter or the dohta is an extension of the maza. There is definitely a connection of sorts to Eriko - or Eriko has certain powers. Maybe as a perceiver?
I couldn't put the book down. I am actually finished with it and will say no more except that I have no answers. Hoping that a discussion will unravel the confusion.
Mod
Julie, UGH! Don't tell me that you are finished and have no answers. I want answers. I want this thing to somehow make sense. Hmm, I never thought mother/daughter, but the very sound of the words do hint at that. If Eriko is a young teen, impregnated by incest in an isolated religious cult that does not talk about sex, then creating an image of little people forming a baby out of magic dust is plausible. Could she have given birth to a still born child with the placenta around it? Could this be the origen of the story? Might she be in that isolation shed because she is pregnant and not because some goat died on her watch? Tango just glimpses a little Aomame on his father's bed at the end of part 2. Could this be nothing more than a fantasy of his longing for Aomame, a realization that he would like to have a child with her?
There is an underlying sex theme in all of this. The two young people making contact just before each of them experiences the tangible signs of sexual maturation is pretty significant. I don't buy two 10 year olds falling in enduring love through a brief hand clasp, unless this is a symbol for something more.
I have an opinion I should say - of what it is all about. But that can wait until discussion begins. I almost think you have to get all the way through it to be able to make conclusions! Am I right about what I think now? I don't know. I am curious what everyone else feels about what it all means when they finish.
I'm a little behind. I just finished the volume 2 and I'm starting our readings for this week today.Well, so far I don't think Fukaeri is Aomame dohta. I actually believe they are connected through Tango, but I still don't know book 3. I'm not so certain that the Eriko at Tengo's home is Fukaeri maza. What if it is the dohta leading Tengo to become the leader - the leader was also a receptor, and he was also paralysed during the sex activities in the community. But... can a dohta speak and relate to others? I have no idea.
