Kenyons Minions discussion
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Zarek and Valerius question
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Hold over from his past. What got me though was how in the hell did he NOT know he was his brother? I mean the night that Z came to kill their father, he came across Val first. And Val gave him his own sword. One would have thought he would be like, hey wait a second this dude has my jawline or my nose, isn't that dear ol' daddy's facial expression he is sporting when he's pissed off? How'd he miss that?
The same way people always missed that Clark Kent was Superman... you see what you want to see.Imagine a Roman General realizing that the slave that was beaten in front of him all his life is in fact his brother... not gonna happen :D
And centuries later when finally they are both more or less on the same social status, even then it was hard for Valerius to do. He did it just at the end. But I think, deep down, he always knew.
What Misty said. And to my understanding, no one ever really looked at him. And Zarek was always sporting long hair that hid his face. Val didn't recognize him until he cut it and could see him fully.Same as when Wren was sporting long dreads then he cut it and all of a sudden he got so much more attention that everyone could see how good looking he was.
Yeah to answer the question, probably reflex and as Cherale stated, hold over from the past.
Misty wrote: "The same way people always missed that Clark Kent was Superman... you see what you want to see.Imagine a Roman General realizing that the slave that was beaten in front of him all his life is in f..."
I somewhat can see that. But I don't know being more quiet and observant over the years, since I was a kid even. I've always been able to recognize people even without knowing/remembering their names per se. So maybe that is why I couldn't get Val not recognizing his own brother. Although it still tickles me like how he could miss that? Unless Zarek looked more like his mother in some respects. And so he couldn't quite see more of their father's features in him.
I went back and re-read the passage where Zarek came to take his revenge against their father, and this is what I found (65% on Kindle):This time when the mirror lightened, she saw what appeared to be a seriously disfigured version of Zarek chasing an older version of his father through the ancient Roman house that she now knew was theirs.
Looks like Zarek took his revenge before Ash healed him. ;)
if I remember correctly, each Dark-Hunter has 24 hours to exact their vengeance, and Ash shows up sometime after that to start training them.
Plus, I'll have to do some more checking, but I think that only the two older brothers--Markus and Marius--knew that Zarek was their brother.
Good looking out Charlotte. ;)
But I'm still confused Valerius has always loved Zarek...you can tell.. Yet in night embrace he was so hostile to Zarek. Why do you think that was?
If you want to go deeper the closet answer might come close to making sense would be they were children and he was softer that way. But as two grown butt dudes, and knowing how they both could handle themselves. Then Val didn't feel any need to protect Zarek as much as when they were kids. Not to mention adult Zarek came with his own issues and reputation over the years too. It's not like word hadn't travelled through the grapevine to Val that the boy that he once protected/even the grown man that he stepped aside to take his vengeance, had changed for the better. No, he just became worse. A "psycho" at that going around drinking from humans and tearing into Daimons with his claws. Imagine how that would have to sound to any sane person? Then sprinkle on their shared past. That probably sounded like their dad re-born to Val. So I wouldn't blame him for being hostile to Zarek. Most especially if he felt the boy he tried to protect grew into the monster that they both feared and hated.
I don't think ANYBODY, would want to be associated with someone like that from their past. And try and push them away and defend themselves as much as they could as an adult, in the ways they couldn't as a child.
This is my theory.In all honesty Zarek has always been hostile. Even to people who might have been able to be friends with him. He was even hostile to Nick, and didn't even give Nick a chance.
So just imagine how much hostility he'd have towards his brother who beat him? Yes his brother showed kindness to him, but Zarek hated Valerius for that because it only made his father force poor Valerius to beat Zarek more. Valerius heart was in the right place, but it didn't work out in the best way.
It's as Tabitha said both children were abused, one for being kind, the other for being a slave.
So Valerius knowing how hostile his brother was felt that he needed to attack before his brother attacked him. That way V would be able to protect his feelings by thinking the only reason his brother attacked him, was because he attacked him first.
It's a type of defence mechanism.
Not to mention that I know V's strength of character. He's never lashed out at anyone. Z throws lightning bolts at him and he still never speaks a bad word against him. Kyrian insults him around every corner, and he compliments Kyrian by telling Tabitha about how much it upset him that a proud prince died like a common criminal, when he should of died on the battlefield instead.
So for V to insult Zarek as soon as they come face to face, despite V's strength of character shows me that the hostility, fights, insults that Zarek has given him over the years must have been really really really harsh.,...for someone as honourable as Valerius to break like that.
And Zarek isn't exactly warm and fluffy. I love him....but he's not the kind of person I'd want to spend time with; Astrid or no Astrid.
Also I suppose what's most honourable about Valerius is he deals with his battles himself. Yes he can be insulting as a defence mechanism. But unlike the other dark hunters he doesn't talk crap about the people he hates to get all of the other dark hunters to turn against that person.
It could of been because he had no friends, but I'm confident that even if Valerius did have friends, he would still handle things on his own like a champ. Any problems he'd have with the person would be between him and that person. He wouldn't get a whole bunch of his friends to turn on that person, because that's not a very honourable thing to do.
Good theory. But I will point out a couple of things. 1. I don't believe anyone is born to be purely good or hostile by nature. At least on a human level(Malachai and so forth aside). But how we are nutured in our environments can shape us into all kinds of things.
2. Zarek was being picked on, lied upon, and abused for being who he is just as much as Valerius was. Mainly by his family and then again when he was the look out for that woman cheating on her husband and accused him of raping her when he never once touched her, EVER.
3. Given so many behind the scenes secrets of what he had seen and learned about Ash and the memory wipes that went down with regards to him. And what led to him being shipped off to no man's land Alaska, out and away from all human contact unless he used a snow mobile to the nearest town. I would say that would have anybody out of their ever loving minds. Heck they have even done tests and proven that baby's that don't get touched or something by others for a while don't do so well as others.
4. Although Val always meant well in their youth. I will admit he was rather slow in regards to getting the message that you CAN NOT play Captain Save A Slave, back in the day without seriously getting someone hurt. Which all his help only kept reiterating to Z, that any one that helps you will get you hurt or killed. That tends to build up some kind of scab in your mind after a while. Takes someone stronger, a hell of a lot stronger to still believe they have a shot at getting help and believing in their fellow man.
5. Another fave saying of mine is that absolute power corrupts absolutely. In Z's case, it went to his head when he became a God. And to humble him his own wife gave Val and Tabs the food of the Gods to balance the playing field. But by any means, it does not mean that Z doesn't have centuries of years of growing to do. Heck, THEY ALL DO.
6. Adult Val finally grew up and yes he had lashed out the first chance he got at Nick and the others. That scab of learning that if others don't like you, you put your walls up and give the mean mugging look to keep people off your ass. It had to no doubt take him some centuries to learn that. I also think that to some degree Val did invite some of the backlash on himself a bit too by having to request a squire that spoke his language. Or did things just so. Dude, most of the other DHes are like whatever as long as the squire can pick me up if I'm out in a bad spot and the sun is about to come up. But Val is making special requests and all that. And these days not everyone is down with that. They probably thought he was sounding like another version of Trump or something. Throwing his weight around instead of just being grateful. Probably been a different story if he humbled himself more too. And likely why SK paired him and Tabs up too. Because Tabs has ALWAYS been a team player kind of person. Val, could have the makings of one. But his stiff upper lip sometimes is just annoying as hell and rubs folks the wrong way to WANT to knock his block off. And if you are one of the DHes that dealt with the romans back in the day, that only spells past time arrogance and you thinking you still running things and NOBODY likes that 'tude from anybody.
We can gather that each one is human or dark hunters :P and unlike fluffy duffy authors, Sherrilyn Kenyon isn't afraid to explore the darkest parts of our human side, that most authors would be too afraid to explore or reveal. Heck even the most boldest of authors hold back. Sherri doesn't.
That we can. Just my point was, and I think what SK mainly tries to get us to see. Is that for each person experiencing similar things, they can move beyond them or they can turn into something else. And also that we ALL have some sort of defense against others so we don't show our vulnerable under belly and get "killed" so to speak. Just speaks to evolution of man I believe.
My favourite characters to explore tend to be the most realistic.I love Styxx...but he's not exactly a character I love to explore because he had it worse than Zarek. Isolation without his beloved, hated by freaking everyone, raped around every corner, beaten, and Acheron's pain on top of that....and yet Styxx is still less psycho than Zarek is?
I'm not buying it for even a second.
That's why I like exploring V and Z's characters it's true to the way they were raised, the way they were abused. Every time V showed kindness he was beaten for it. Every time he so much as stood or looked, or acted the tiniest bit like a lowborn he was beaten for it.
Nobility was beaten into V and I guess sometimes I think oh man I'd be better than that. I wouldn't let my parents change me.....pfft YEAH RIGHT
I once heard a person write a goodreads review complaining about V's arrogance, that V had 2000 years to become his own man and to not let his father define his personality. But that kind of post traumatic stress disorder of being horribly abused for not being arrogant isn't something that just disappears over night.
I bet every time V decided to not act arrogant it brought up horrible memories of his father and brothers insulting him and abusing him for not being arrogant and for being kind.
I don't blame V. Why on earth would he want to be kind, when his kindness screwed people over unintentionally and it screwed him over? Why on earth would he want to be kind when it only reminds him of the abuse and insults he suffered because he was kind.
I mean lets face it V was beaten for having so much as an eyebrow in a "plebeian" position.
Both Z and V have strength of character. And I really admire their decency despite their circumstances. Any one else probably would of become murderous psychos.
Well Z is a psycho but in his case it's almost endearing
Man I love how we can really discuss the characters in depth it makes for some really highly entertaining goodreads conversations.
Yep, nothing like the psychology and sociology of romance novel characters. Be a doozy if this stuff was ever offered as a set of college courses somewhere.
Ahh loves ya too Shari-berry. :D
Haha Sherri-psychologyAssignment on Zarek lol .....'nuff said. ;)
Hey Kat, heads up I'm going to relocate your threads from the general folder down into the Dark-Hunter discussions as they are starting to make the group home page a little top heavy. But they'll still be open for folks to comment and post on.
The repugnant hatred in Valerius's eyes was searing. "Did anyone speak to you, slave?'
Why do you think Valerius attacked Zarek in night embrace from the get go, even though if you read Seize the Night...it was obvious he cared about Zarek and stood up for him in their human life.