Jane Austen discussion
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Who of Austen's heroes is described as the most handsome one?
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I think Darcy is the only one whom we are supposed to imagine as particularly handsome, not just because Austen makes a point of it by actually telling us, but also by having him be the object of women's ardent attentions (though you could also argue that it's not his looks but his money they're after - like Lucy in Sense and Sensibility is after Edward). As for actors for Austen adaptations, I always find that more than looks they really have to convey the character. For example, I thought that Matthew MacFadyen looked more like Darcy than Colin Firth, but Colin Firth played him better.
Emily wrote: "I think Darcy is the only one whom we are supposed to imagine as particularly handsome, not just because Austen makes a point of it by actually telling us,"No, that's not so. He may be the most popular hero and the one played by good-looking actors more frequently, but he doesn't have the monopoly of looks in Austenland.
I wanted to see if I could find answers with textual proof myself, so I went to check in my copies this moment. Of the protagonists in the six main novels, not counting the secondaries:
1. Frederick Wentworth is called "very handsome" when he arrives to the Musgroves, "much handsomer" than any of their acquaintances, actually, and is thought of as good-looking other times and not by Anne only, so we can rule out bias on her part. The girl is hopeless, she even describes his mouth as "the curl of his handsome mouth." ;)
2. Henry Tilney is described as "pleasing to the eyes," but "not handsome" in the books.
3. Edward Ferrars is plain, as per the book:
"Edward Ferrars was not recommended to their good opinion by any peculiar graces of person or address. He was not handsome, and his manners required intimacy to make them pleasing."
4. George Knightley is said to have a "fine air" and carry himself with a "remarkably fine" countenance, but nowhere is it specified that he's good-looking, so it seems to be about his dignity and distinction than looks, unless I missed a quote somewhere saying so.
5. Edmund is indirectly described as "very well looking" when the Bertram family are described as a whole and it's mentioned that the males are good-looking and the girls are pretty.
6. Fizwilliam Darcy:
"... but his friend Mr. Darcy soon drew the attention of the room by his fine, tall person, handsome features, noble mein."
Bingley is there also described as "wonderfully handsome."
So this answers my question! Darcy and Captain Wentworth are supposed to be the two Austen hotties. :D
This was a quick search, though, so you're welcome to add more.
Marquise wrote: "1. Frederick Wentworth is called "very handsome" when he arrives to the Musgroves, "much handsomer" than any of their acquaintances, actually, and is thought of as good-looking other times and not by Anne only, so we can rule out bias on her part. The girl is hopeless, she even describes his mouth as "the curl of his handsome mouth." ;)..."Am I in a tiny minority who prefers Ciaran Hinds's Frederick Wentworth to either of the Darcys? (*small fluttery sigh*)
Tracey wrote: "Am I in a tiny minority who prefers Ciaran Hinds's Frederick Wentworth to either of the Darcys? (*small fluttery sigh*) "Probably! :) I am no fan of any of the adaptations myself, the one I enjoyed the most was S&S with Emma Thompson, Hugh Grant, Kate Winslet and Alan Rickman. But as a whole, not for any actor or character in particular.
I have the Jane Austen books as eBooks, so I searched for the male characters by name to see how they may have been described with respect to looks. My take away was that she rarely did describe their looks. The women on the other hand was more frequently described as beautiful or not. Character seemed to be more important. Darcy and Bingly had their appearance described, but that was about all I found. I could easily have missed some. Of course in Persuasion we have the current baronet, Sir Elliot, very preoccupied with looks...
Brit wrote: " My take away was that she rarely did describe their looks. The women on the other hand was more frequently described as beautiful or not."Yes, that's so. The men's looks are qualified, we're told whether they're handsome or plain, but they're not described in detail, as in: Austen doesn't tell us their eye colour, hair colour and so on. Female looks have always been more important and more plot-relevant now and back then, it's a more important asset for them whereas men can attract women for other reasons, which at that time are position in society and purchase power, i. e. money, for example.
Darcy and Bingly had their appearance described, but that was about all I found. I could easily have missed some.
Indeed you missed some, see my list above, there I found out that Darcy and Wentworth are the Austen heroes supposed to be the handsome ones. Edmund seems to be as well, but it's not directly stated.
Of course in Persuasion we have the current baronet, Sir Elliot, very preoccupied with looks...
I'm focusing on the leading males, not on the secondaries. :)
Tracey wrote : "Am I in a tiny minority who prefers Ciaran Hinds's Frederick Wentworth to either of the Darcys? (*small fluttery sigh*) No, I find him very dashing but I do love Colin Firth as Darcy.
In P&P Darcy is described as tall and proud and at the end Mrs. Bennet describes him as "Such a charming man! -- so handsome! so tall!" after hating him the entire novel. LOL!
Mr. Collins is described as "He was a tall, heavy-looking young man of five-and-twenty. His air was grave and stately, and his manners were very formal." Apparently this is not attractive by Georgian/Regency standards.
In Austen's day, handsome qualities (and you have to remember that the word "handsome" was applied to women as well as men) that were attractive in a man were good features, a certain physical grace and tallness. By that standard, Darcy, who had a "fine, tall person, handsome features and noble mien", and Willoughby is first described as "frank" and "graceful" and "uncommonly handsome." We also know he is taller than Edward.Good looks and tallness were also valued because they were suggestive of health, which was a prized commodity in the 18th and early 19th century. Gracefulness was suggestive of status - an upper class gentleman had the advantage of sports and tutoring in fencing and dancing which were conducive to agility and grace, while the manual labor of the lower classes wasn't.
J. wrote: "In Austen's day, handsome qualities (and you have to remember that the word "handsome" was applied to women as well as men)"And to things too, because there's expressions like "a handsome income" and similar applied to objects and even dresses both in Austen novels and in other contemporary novels. I know all that.
Thing is, I'm not asking about the historical context of what they considered pretty back then relating to what we consider pretty in our time, because the basic elements to qualify handsomeness are fairly stable across time, and those features you mention they prized back then are still standard for qualifying a man as handsome these days, even the gracefulness part that's now not necessarily an indication of status. What I am asking is who the books say is the most attractive character, and that's been answered already. :)
Women also looked at a man's calves and shoulders. If a man didn't have well-formed (muscled) calves, he could pad them and when he went to dance, that's the foot he would put forward "put your best foot forward." I say Willoughby most be the most attractive since girls fall for him easily. I think the heroes have to be less attractive than the villains for obvious reasons. Going with that, the most attractive hero is Henry Tilney!
Nice observation, Willoughby is indeed made to be very attractive to justify Marianne's infatuation with him, since she's in the age range where this tends to happen more and also because she's the romantic one and would prize looks more than her rational-leaning sister. I was not making a distinction between hero and villain, by the way. It's true that as a rule villains and antagonists tend to not be as physically attractive, and sometimes not as attractive personality-wise even if they are physically. Willoughby would win as Hottest Villain in Austenland.
Thanks, Pooh, with your observation I think my question is now completely answered!
I agree that both Willoughby and Wickham were good looking men. In addition, I think they had a fun loving personality. Both were used to win over the ladies and to make friends in general.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Mrs. Bennet describes him as "Such a charming man! -- so handsome! so tall!" after hating him the entire novel. "I think his income and wanting to marry her daughter would make just about any man handsome in her eyes. 0:)
Mary wrote: "I think his income and wanting to marry her daughter would make just about any man handsome in her eyes. 0:) ."
right! I enjoy the humor of the story, Mrs. Bennet included.
captain wentworth is referred to as handsome several times in Persuasion. I've always had the impression he is austen's best looking hero.
Louise wrote: "captain wentworth is referred to as handsome several times in Persuasion. I've always had the impression he is austen's best looking hero."That's what I was musing on also. His description isn't as detailed as Darcy's, but he's a somewhat more ample array of characters calling him handsome, and without the funny ping-pong changes of opinion in Mrs Bennett, so we could make a case for in-story objectivity here.
Capt. Wentworth gets my vote for best hero! Anne certainly must have been attracted to him when he was a Lieutenant without prospects. I'm not sure if Louisa likes him because he's a)handsome, b )rich, c) a hero or d)was kind to her brother or all of the above.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Capt. Wentworth gets my vote for best hero! Anne certainly must have been attracted to him when he was a Lieutenant without prospects. I'm not sure if Louisa likes him because he's a)handsome, b )r..."i think as well as being goodlooking and a hero, he has an attractive personality and a lot of charm, he isn't aloof and stuck up like Darcy. Henrietta and Louisa are both charmed by him.
I have never detected any personality at all in him except his flirting with Lousea ( as Elizabeth says Flirts with no intentions will not do for us) as so many of you all are fond of him maybe someone can enlighten me as to his character PS my favorites are Knightly & Darcy Iam also fond Of Cl Fitzwilliam
Maybe the attraction to Caption Wentworth is indirect and comes from Anne's attraction, appreciation and understanding of this deep character.
Well, he is honorable. He was going to go ahead and marry Louisa after she was hurt and he realized he had led her on, until it was clear that she chose someone else. He's also interesting and funny and cares a lot for his ships, crew, and family, as displayed when he's telling stories of his adventures and interacting with his sister. I love Wentworth. If you're talking about someone who is well-rounded, he's probably the best hero. But there are also mentions of him being a little rough from sea travel, so I think Darcy is meant to be handsomer.
Mrs wrote: "I have never detected any personality at all in him except his flirting with Lousea ( as Elizabeth says Flirts with no intentions will not do for us) as so many of you all are fond of him maybe som..."he's more outgoing and agreeable than darcy, who is a bit stuck up. And clearly henrietta and Louisa enjoy his company. if he was aloof and silent like darcy they would be unlikely to have much fun with him. i like mr knightley too, he also knows how to be pleasant to people, like when he puts harriet at ease after she has been snubbed by Mr elton, he is a very kind man.
I agree with both of you, Hannah and Louise. Besides the qualities you two mention, there's the self-made man aspect that for me is also part of his charm. He's industriously had to work for every penny he owns and became a rich man on his own, risking his life in the process because of his job in the Navy, nothing was given him by birth and connections like Darcy or other Austen heroes. But there are also mentions of him being a little rough from sea travel, so I think Darcy is meant to be handsomer.
I'm not so sure. If you mean Darcy had softer and more flawless skin because of his lifestyle whereas Frederick was sunburnt and rougher overall, then I can understand your point, but don't agree that the conclusion is that it must mean Darcy is handsomer. There's more to beauty than bronzed skin and a bit of roughness, especially in a man, who's not expected to have the lily-white porcelain skin of ladies. It's about the features, the harmonious look overall, I'd say.
I think we appreciate the ruggedly handsome more now than they did in Jane's day. I thought the upper classes preferred a more refined appearance in a man.
One notes that Sir Walter thinks:On the contrary, when he saw more of Captain Wentworth, saw him repeatedly by daylight, and eyed him well, he was very much struck by his personal claims, and felt that his superiority of appearance might be not unfairly balanced against her superiority of rank;
Given that he thinks beauty and position are the best of all things, Wentworth's probably good looking.
Marnie wrote: "I think we appreciate the ruggedly handsome more now than they did in Jane's day."Sure, but I was referring to in-story assessment of Wentworth looks, not the reader's. The ruggedness in Wentworth isn't taken as diminishing his looks by the characters, then it's the reader who's drawing that conclusion from external info, like you say: rugged looks less attractive then = Darcy is handsomer. That's external, not in-story.
That's doesn't add up for me when put beside what they say in-story.
Mary wrote: "One notes that Sir Walter thinks:On the contrary, when he saw more of Captain Wentworth, saw him repeatedly by daylight, and eyed him well, he was very much struck by his personal claims, and fel..."
It's quite funny how Sir Walter phrases it. Not unfairly balanced, ha! :D
Thank you for the little quote, this sort of info is what I'm thinking of. The characters' opinion is what counts because it reflects what Jane's intention was. We as readers might picture a character more attractive in our heads depending on whom we like best or what we can glean from reading, but in the end there's a lot of variation going that route, so the characters' opinion is what counts to have the clearest idea possible. Even when they're a tad wishy-washy like Mrs Bennett and Sir Walter! ;)
Well, speaking "in story" as you say, ruggedness is not considered attractive in itself. During a conversation there is mentioned "a certain Admiral Baldwin, the most deplorable-looking personage you can imagine; his face the colour of mahogany, rough and rugged to the last degree;”
OTOH, remember that Wentworth's opinion of Anne when he first met her again was "wretchedly altered" -- and the narrator gives her his point of view so we know he means it -- and then at the end, he says with all apparent sincerity that she never could be altered in his eyes. (Amazing what getting over your anger can do to your eyes.)
Yes Mary, very true. I always remember wondering at the transformation of her looks from the beginning of the story to the end. How romantic
Marnie wrote: "Well, speaking "in story" as you say, ruggedness is not considered attractive in itself. During a conversation there is mentioned "a certain Admiral Baldwin, the most deplorable-looking personage y..."Yes, but again: it's not about Wentworth. :)
In this case, they're specifically saying it's Admiral Baldwin that looks "deplorable" and then they explain why, citing that he's rough-looking. That's not what they're saying about Frederick; that's a juxtaposition by taking what they say about another character to mean it's the same for Wentworth, when the quote above tells a different story.
Mary wrote: "(Amazing what getting over your anger can do to your eyes.)"Ha, true. Someone you've got feelings for will look more attractive always. :)
If you think about it, all the novels by Austen are "female gaze," told mainly through the heroine's POV mixed with omniscient narrator, so we always end up knowing what they think of the men's looks straightaway. Save for a few cases when attitude impacts their opinions negatively at first, like for Darcy, they're usually very sincere and don't shy away from letting us know they're plain as dirt or very good-looking. I recall I was somewhat surprised when I watched S&S and saw Hugh Grant as Edward, because I'd read and reread the book many times before and had this image in my head of him as someone plain because Elinor said so.
Marnie wrote: "Well, speaking "in story" as you say, ruggedness is not considered attractive in itself. During a conversation there is mentioned "a certain Admiral Baldwin, the most deplorable-looking personage y..."but that's sir walter's opinion, and he's an idiot. i don't think we're meant to agree with him.
Louise wrote: "but that's sir walter's opinion, and he's an idiot. i don't think we're meant to agree with him"Yes, in Sir Walter's eyes Admiral Baldwin is no beauty, but I think we can accept that Sir Walter's description of him as a rugged looking man. Whether the rugged look appeals to us readers will probably vary. The main take-away regarding Sir Walter is that he is a shallow, vain man who is unable to appreciate and understand good character, personality and other qualities that makes up a person.
Hannah hit the nail on the head with Captain Wentworth's character. Wentworth knows how to write a letter that makes a woman swoon! Darcy's letter writing needs work, probably by the end of the story his letters would be improved, and none of the other heroes write at all that we get to read anyway.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Hannah hit the nail on the head with Captain Wentworth's character. Wentworth knows how to write a letter that makes a woman swoon! Darcy's letter writing needs work, probably by the end of the sto..."I imagine that Henry Tilney is probably a very good letter writer, I expect his letters would be fun to read.
Darcy is supposed to be a very good letter writer. It's mentioned while Elizabeth is staying with the Bingleys. The content of the one letter we see just isn't a romantic one.
Hannah wrote: "Darcy is supposed to be a very good letter writer. It's mentioned while Elizabeth is staying with the Bingleys. The content of the one letter we see just isn't a romantic one."I find Darcy to be a good letter writer. The letter to Elizabeth is not a romantic letter, but a letter of explanation and he bares his soul in this letter. In fact, he entrust information to Elizabeth that this introvert normally would not share. We see the impact of the letter. Elizabeth retreads it over and over. It is what starts her reevaluation of the characters of Darcy and Wickham.
So true, Brit! Darcy reveals a lot of himself in that letter, and the impact of it upon Elizabeth is amazing.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Women also looked at a man's calves and shoulders. If a man didn't have well-formed (muscled) calves, he could pad them and when he went to dance, that's the foot he would put forward "put your bes..."Henry Crawford wasn't very handsome but he was charming. Both the Bertram girls said he was black and plain. But after a few meetings wouldn't let him be called plain by anyone. So not all the villains were more handsome then the hero.
Nicole D. wrote: "QNPoohBear wrote: "Women also looked at a man's calves and shoulders. If a man didn't have well-formed (muscled) calves, he could pad them and when he went to dance, that's the foot he would put fo..."Quite true. henry Crawford isn't handsome, but clearly has a lot of sex appeal.
Nobody mentioned Frank Churchill ... ?When I saw the question, Frank Churchill came to my mind straight away. Or, perhaps, Willoughby.
Darcy, - rich, tall, appears in the novel thought out, a good letter writer, and Colin Firth, he has got so many reasons to sound handsome. - but, I cannot imagine him to be that handsome…
His sister is less handsome, this gives me an impression that Darcy’s good look is rather characteristic, some girls may find him good looking, but some find him just OK.
I have an electronic edition of JA and can search on words. "Handsome" is applied to women as well as men, and is our first introduction to Emma, who is "handsome, clever, and rich." It also comes up in regards to Fanny Price's birth family in Portsmouth, thinking well of themselves when cleaned up and out for a Sunday stroll. We think of "handsome" as denoting masculine good looks (Colin Firth for sure!) but 200 years ago it could describe a "handsome fortune" or home as well as a person.
I wanted to pose a question to you: who of Austen's heroes is described to be the better-looking in the books? Note that I am not asking which of them you see as the handsomest in your imagination, nor am I asking who's your favourite.
Happens that I came across a very old discussion elsewhere whilst cleaning my bookmarks, about whether readers focus more on matching textual descriptions of looks and physical details over acting skills in the always popular fan-casting threads. Some argued that readers fixate too much on small details like when an actor is proposed for, say, Darcy, and he happens to be blond, readers reject him based on hair colour forgetting that hair-dye and wigs exist for a reason. That made me go mentally through my own "headcanons" of Austen's heroes as opposed to the actors that portrayed them in the adaptations, and I found out they never match, but when I tried to remember the book descriptions of them, I couldn't come up with an answer for some, as some of Austen's heroes are rather non-descript, unless I just didn't keep a memory of how they're described in the books.