2016 Mar Apr RPG tie-in

[Dan]

The Last Wish was fantastic! I'm glad you enjoyed it Jack. Great review too.

If it ends up as next months group read, maybe I'll pick up the second novel (or collection I can't recall). I do have a few others books I want to get to as well though.

[Greg]

Jack wrote: "I finished The Last Wish by Andrzej Sapkowski today. It is a collection of short stories introducing Geralt of Rivia, aka The Witcher. The three Witcher video games (c..."

Nicely reviewed! The quality of the trailers for the games is exceptional - such as this one - so I'm thinking this is an indicator of the quality of the fiction as well!

S.E. wrote: "Jack, that's a great review. It looks like it will be next months groupread topic too, so this may fuel the momentum to check it out."

I think I like this idea!

Black City Saint looks interesting too!

[Mary]

I've re-read Quag Keep. Review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

For those who want the very first tie-in. . . .

[S.E., Gray Mouser (Emeritus)]

Mary, thanks for sharing that. From the reviews, it seems to be only moderately entertaining, but with a 1979 printing it does seem to be the first tie-in rpg. Nice perspective.

[Jason]

Quag Keep, found 2 weeks ago, read last week, review here:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

[Mary]

Those who came into it from AD&D may find it a bit puzzling. . .

Yes, the whole Law vs. Chaos was D&D's original set up. The nine-fold square came later

[Dan]

I'd tried hunting Quag Keep down when this group read was voted on, none of the used bookstores carried it. Coulda ordered it online but... I just didn't care that much.

I'd still like to get to it at some point, despite the less than enthusiastic reviews.

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

It's more interesting as a historical artifact than anything else at this point, I'd say.

(And it's been many, many years since I read it, but I kind of got the feeling that Norton was writing based on a second- or third-hand description of how the game was played.)

[Rich]

I found a copy quite a few years ago, but it's never made it to my TBR pile. I've always heard it was just okay, and I've got so many good books to get to, it'll probably remain unread. Glad I own it, though.

[Dan]

I think if I get around to reading it it will be, as Joseph said, as almost a historical artifact. Consider it a starting point for RPG tie-ins, especially D&D. I'm sure many learned from it's successes (even if they were few) and it's failings.

I'm sure it was mostly just a pay cheque for Norton, or maybe just taken on as a challenge.

[Mary]

Nobody Likes a Goblin by Ben Hatke

Okay, it's not actually a tie-in.

Or even an Order of the Stick like parody.

And it's a children's picture book.

but -- anyone familiar with RPGs will see certain -- echoes. (Possibly not even intentional.)

[Derek]

Just finished The Samarkand Solution by Gary Gygax, which was a tie in to his Mythus RPG / Dangerous Journeys line created after his departure from TSR.

[S.E., Gray Mouser (Emeritus)]

Derek wrote: "Just finished The Samarkand Solution by Gary Gygax, which was a tie in to his Mythus RPG / Dangerous Journeys line created after his departure from TSR."

I liked this review, Derek. I've played D&D, but never read any of Gygax's books.

[Derek]

S.E. wrote: "Derek wrote: "I liked this review, Derek. I've played D&D, but never read any of Gygax's books."

Thanks.

By some coincidence I have a set of his Gord the Rogue novels, and all have less than ten reviews...

[S.E., Gray Mouser (Emeritus)]

Funny. Sounds like we may hear about the rogue next group read. Have you already read them?

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

Derek wrote: "By some coincidence I have a set of his Gord the Rogue novels, and all have less than ten reviews..."

I read all of those -- the first two from TSR, and then the half dozen from New Infinities (the first of which kind of retconned the TSR books). Gygax' writing style was definitely a take it or leave it; my favorite was probably Sea of Death. In some of the later books Gord became the biggest Mary Sue I've ever read.

[Greg]

Mary wrote: "Nobody Likes a Goblin by Ben Hatke

Okay, it's not actually a tie-in.

Or even an Order of the Stick like parody.

And it's a children's picture book.

but -- anyon..."

LOL

[Greg]

Joseph wrote: "Derek wrote: "By some coincidence I have a set of his Gord the Rogue novels, and all have less than ten reviews..."

I read all of those -- the first two from TSR, and then the half dozen from New ..."

I think I have one or two of the Gord novels around somewhere but haven't read them yet - possibly because they're not in sequence (but maybe this isn't important in reading them?).

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

Greg wrote: "I think I have one or two of the Gord novels around somewhere but haven't read them yet - possibly because they're not in sequence (but maybe this isn't important in reading them?)."

No, they do have a story arc that progresses. Well, it's complicated ... There were the two original TSR books (Saga of Old City and its sequel Artifact of Evil). Then after Gygax was forced out of TSR and started New Infinities, he continued the series, but also went back and gave it a new beginning (and I'm not sure if he regarded the TSR books as actually "canonical"). In internal order the series was:
City of Hawks
Night Arrant (short story collection)
Sea of Death
Come Endless Darkness
Dance of Demons

Saga of Old City actually falls somewhere in the middle of City of Hawks, and Artifact of Evil precedes Sea of Death.

Now I'm tempted to go back and revisit them despite the fact that in many ways they're really not all that good ...

[Derek]

S.E. wrote: "Funny. Sounds like we may hear about the rogue next group read. Have you already read them?"

I've read Sea of Death and wasn't impressed with that one either.

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

Derek wrote: "S.E. wrote: "Funny. Sounds like we may hear about the rogue next group read. Have you already read them?"

I've read Sea of Death and wasn't impressed with that one either."

Yeah, I think your review of Sea of Death pretty much hits the nail on the head. I still think that was the best of his fiction that I've read, but "best" is a relative term in this case.

[A.L.]

I've read some of the Dragon Age novels - worth a read. Played the RPG - mostly online. I have to say I wasn't enamoured of the rules/starting adventure - we ended up adapting most of them.

[Dan]

I liked the first Dragon Age game, had an acquaintance (one of my close friends' brother) that worked on the game. Never played the sequels though,

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

I liked the Dragon Age games and the Dragon Age novels, although I think that only the first two novels (The Stolen Throne and The Calling) would've worked really well for someone who hasn't played the games -- the first two were prequels set a generation or two back and showing how the world ended up in its current state, while later books were more closely tied to the ongoing narrative of the games.

I also still have to read the Mass Effect books one of these days.

[Jason]

Joseph, thanks for the Gygax reading order. I have all of those books except for the short story collection. I actually got conned into them close to a decade ago when a brother of a friend was down on his luck and selling things and my friend knew I was interested in "those types of books" so he arranged for me to go buy a number of books sight unseen. these are beat to crap and he wanted ten bucks a book. Finally got him down to $5 a book but based on condition and reviews I waaaaay overpaid. perhaps it's time I give them a shot.

[Dan]

$5 per book for any used PB (other than a specific few rarities) is pretty expensive in general. But I guess if it helped get him back on his feet it may have been worth it. Especially if you actually get to read them!

[Greg]

Joseph wrote: "No, they do have a story arc that progresses. Well, it's complicated ... There were the two original TSR books (Saga of Old City and its sequel Artifact of Evil). Then after Gygax was forced out of TSR and started New Infinities, he continued the series, but also went back and gave it a new beginning (and I'm not sure if he regarded the TSR books as actually "canonical"). In internal order the series was:
City of Hawks
Night Arrant (short story collection)
Sea of Death
Come Endless Darkness
Dance of Demons"

I found my copies and they are Sea of Death and Night Arrant. The GR series list gives City of Hawks as the third book in the Gord the Rogue series but it agrees with you about the two prequels. Based on the lists of 'other books by Gary Gygax' in the two books I have it's clear that they predate the publication of City of hawks but I think you're saying that Gygax made this the first Gord novel chronologically?

Joseph wrote: "Saga of Old City actually falls somewhere in the middle of City of Hawks, and Artifact of Evil precedes Sea of Death."

OK. I guess I could just start with Sea of death and worry about the prequels later if I actually like the series - but I'm a bit worried about your comment 'that in many ways they're really not all that good.' Erk!

[Greg]

Derek wrote: "S.E. wrote: "Funny. Sounds like we may hear about the rogue next group read. Have you already read them?"

I've read Sea of Death and wasn't impressed with that one either."

:( Oh well.

Joseph wrote: "Yeah, I think your review of Sea of Death pretty much hits the nail on the head. I still think that was the best of his fiction that I've read, but "best" is a relative term in this case."

That was his best? I guess I'll still give it a go but I'll need to keep my expectations low. LOL

Jack wrote: "Has anyone read Gygax' biography, Empire of Imagination: Gary Gygax and the Birth of Dungeons & Dragons? I've had it on my to-read list for awhile."

Look like that could be an interesting read.

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

Yeah, Sea of Death actually isn't a bad place to start, and it'll give you a sense of Gygax as a fiction writer.

City of Hawks was written as a prequel. Saga of Old City (the first TSR book) starts with Gord as a young orphan on the streets of Greyhawk City. City of Hawks actually goes back to his birth. Also, the stories in Night Arrant take place before the events of Sea of Death even though it was published afterwards.

"not all that good" -- I think Gygax was a fine worldbuilder and storyteller, but a lot of his actual prose was kind of clumsy & stilted -- like he was going for a slightly more formal or elevated style, but couldn't quite pull it off. Still, the bit when the characters are actually in the Sea of Death proper is quite memorable.

[Greg]

Joseph wrote: "Yeah, Sea of Death actually isn't a bad place to start, and it'll give you a sense of Gygax as a fiction writer.

City of Hawks was written as a prequel. Saga of Old City (the first TSR book) start..."

I might be forgiving about the prose if the story is reasonably good!

[Joseph, Master Ultan]

Great! I don't mean to drive you away from it, and I'll be very curious to hear what you think.

[Greg]

Joseph wrote: "Great! I don't mean to drive you away from it, and I'll be very curious to hear what you think."

No problem. I'll probably post about it in this group when I do!