Mount TBR 2016 discussion
Buddy Reads
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Don Quixote
Teresa wrote: "You have to wonder how many footnotes Ready Player One will require in 400 years time to explain all of the pop culture references."I haven't read it yet :( but hopefully will do so soon if I can find the time!
Leslie wrote: "Fab wrote: "... I liked the part when he arrives at the inn (I'm reading the Spanish version so I hope this is the right translation) and uses such ridiculous flowery language which I did recognize..."Yes, Sancho is very practical, it was funny too in Chapter XI when Don Qixote wants him to sit next to him, imagining what a great honor he is bestowing on Sancho and his response is no thank you, I rather eat by myself than have to observe good manners like chewing slowly, drinking little, not sneezing or coughing :)
Leslie, the librivox recording is ok, so far it's been the same female narrator and she's doing an alright job. However I have read reviews that some of the narrators aren't very good and I don't personally like it when they keep changing. Unfortunately this was my only listening choice, so I'm giving it a go. Plus I find I can fit in listening to the story while I'm doing other things, as I haven't found any time to actually sit and read all week. I haven't been reading any footnotes, so I think some things are lost to me, but I'm okay with that just trying to enjoy the story.
This book isn't on my TBR challenge (wanted to read it with Teresa), so I downloaded a copy from project gutenburg. My version doesn't have any footnotes, but I've been getting along just fine with context. All the references to the books and authors was probably the only part that I really wished I had had footnotes. I just finished the 13th chapter, so now I think I'll go to spark notes and read over those chapters. I didn't know anything about this book going in - I didn't even know it was so funny. I'm enjoying it so far.I typed this up on my phone so I hope there aren't too many typos.
I've just finished the first 13 chapters and overall I'm enjoying the story and finding it quite humorous. Don Quixote is very disillusioned isn't he, trying to 'save' everyone he meets and really seeming to believe that he is a knight errant. His relationship with Sancho is interesting and reminiscent of Jeeves and Wooster!I liked the explanation of how the story of Don Quixote came to be told, relating to how it was written down and found in another manuscript. This seems like a new technique in story telling, digressing from the main story, to explain it to the reader, but perhaps this would have been more usual with older or oral stories.
I like the "story within a story" idea too -- I don't know if it was new with Cervantes but he makes good use of it! I like the way that he slipped in a little reference to another book he wrote as being in Don Quixote's library (La Galatea) along with the curate's opinion that Cervantes' book "has some bright ideas; it sets out to do something but concludes nothing."The fact that Cervantes is satirizing chivalry 400 years ago I find fascinating -- despite the fact that some of Don Quixote's ideas were so old-fashioned as to be humorous so long ago, we still have this idea of knights-errant as part of our popular culture. I wonder what this indicates about us!
In case anyone is unclear, this week (March 20-27) we are aiming to read Chapters 14-26. This starts with Part One, Chap. XIV (or Book 2, Chap. 6) "Containing the despairing verses of the dead shepherd, with other unexpected happenings"
and ends with Part One, Chap. XXVI (Book 3, Chap. 13) "Of how the curate and the barber carried out their plan, with other things worthy of mention in this great history".
I believe that this week should finish Part 1, Book 3 going by Pink's info and will bring us to the halfway point in Part One. Looking at my print edition, this week's reading will be a little longer than last week's but not by a whole lot.
Bethany wrote: "This book isn't on my TBR challenge (wanted to read it with Teresa), so I downloaded a copy from project gutenburg. My version doesn't have any footnotes, but I've been getting along just fine with..."Bethany, I didn't see any typos so I am impressed *grin*. My phone typing is terrible!
My Kindle edition (from Feedbooks as I already mentioned) doesn't have any footnotes either -- that is one reason for me to read in my paperback edition despite its unwieldy size. But luckily for you (and any modern reader), it is much easier to get background information on a classic now using the internet. Plus you can always ask here if you come across something that puzzles you or just makes you wonder.
I am finding that while this isn't so immediately funny that I spontaneously laugh, I find aspects of it more funny as I mull it over or review based on someone else's comments. For example, I probably would have missed Cervantes touting his own book in Chapter 6 but when I went back to it when we were talking about the footnotes, I noticed it. Another benefit of reading this as part of a buddy read :)
Thanks for clarifying the schedule Leslie. I'll probably listen to/ read chapter 27 too, as this rounds off part 1, book 3. I agree that the story isn't especially funny, but I do find myself laughing out loud on a few occasions. I too would have missed some of the events, such as Cervantes touting his own book, so thanks for mentioning that.
Bethany, I think I'll read over the spark notes before I start this week's schedule as well, as I'm sure there's other things I've missed.
Pink wrote: "Thanks for clarifying the schedule Leslie. I'll probably listen to/ read chapter 27 too, as this rounds off part 1, book 3. I agree that the story isn't especially funny, but I do find myself lau..."
I did find a hilarious section today in Chap. 20 (Book 3, Chap. 6). I am a little embarrassed to admit that it was potty humor - I guess that my toddler sense of humor hasn't changed!
I found this section in the SparkNotes to be illuminating. Though it refers to an incident in Chapter 20, I don't believe that it has any spoilers. However, I will put it in spoiler tags if others think it needs them."Sancho’s bizarre, aborted account of the shepherd and shepherdess highlights Cervantes’s tendency to comment on the nature of storytelling and the way literature should be presented and read. ... Here, Sancho asserts his right to tell the story as he sees fit and according to the tradition by which people in his homeland tell stories. This tradition mimics great epic poems, often tedious in their apparently useless repetition and lists of detail. Don Quixote views these conventions as empty formalities and asks Sancho to skip them, which irritates Sancho. But Sancho apparently believes that a story is not truly a story unless it has a certain formal structure. This interplay of structure and content is found throughout Don Quixote, since Cervantes frequently plays with the highly formal framework of chivalric tales. Here, through Sancho, Cervantes implies that a reader must play along with the author’s structural effects to get to the meaning of the story. Sancho’s story thus prompts us to pay attention to the game Cervantes plays throughout his novel."
Teresa and I were cackling over a phone call recently. Some of the things I read as mildly funny were downright hilarious when you add your own voices and summarize and modernize.
Leslie wrote: "I found this section in the SparkNotes to be illuminating. Though it refers to an incident in Chapter 20, I don't believe that it has any spoilers. However, I will put it in spoiler tags if others ..."That's a very interesting appreciation, thanks for sharing it Leslie :) I actually thought it was cool of Sancho to defend his way of telling the story. Of course the "ending" of it was funny as was Don Quixote's reaction.
I got to the section you mention about the potty humor and just could not help by laugh. This book is surprising in many ways. I was very much impressed with Marcela's speech and the arguments she made to those who accused her.
Bethany wrote: "Teresa and I were cackling over a phone call recently. Some of the things I read as mildly funny were downright hilarious when you add your own voices and summarize and modernize."Yes, I have noticed that too!
How is everyone doing? Is the pace OK or should we change it?For the week of 27 March - 3 April, our goal is to read Part One, Chapter XXVII to Chapter XXXIX (27-39 or Book 3, Chap. 13 to Book 4, Chap. 12). Just in case there is still confusion about the chapter numbering, you can check the subtitle of the chapter to see if it matches:
Chapter XXVII is subtitled "Of how the curate and the barber carried out their plan, with other things worthy of mention in this great history"
and Chapter XXXIX is subtitled "In which the captive tells the story of his life and adventures"
I'm doing okay, just about to start chapter 21. I'm enjoying the book about the same, though it is starting to feel a little repetitive. I'm still listening on librivox, which is much better since I've realised I can change the speed with the tortoise and hare symbols! This helps a lot as all of the narrators read either extremely fast or very slowly!
Pink wrote: "I'm doing okay, just about to start chapter 21. I'm enjoying the book about the same, though it is starting to feel a little repetitive. I'm still listening on librivox, which is much better since ..."Hmmm.... I don't know if my Android app has those but that is a very useful feature!
I'm slightly behind right now but am going to have a lot of time sitting around on Wednesday, so I plan on getting caught up then.
Ive just finished chapter 27 and I've found that the story has picked up again. I liked hearing about Cardenio's troubles and his love for Lucinda.
I was relieved that Cardenio's story was picked up again. When Don Quixote interrupted I was like noooo!
So cool to get another story within the main one. I'm excited to see were it ends up
Fab wrote: "So cool to get another story within the main one. I'm excited to see were it ends up"Yes, me too!
I was also glad to see in Chap. 31 (view spoiler)
In Chapter 28 (XXVIII), after the curate & barber meet Dorotea and she starts telling them her story, my book has the following footnote:Rodriguez Marin as the result of his researches in the archives of the towns of Andalusia suggested that the stories of Cardenio and Dorotea refer to real events that occurred in the life of Cervantes. (view spoiler)The events described took place in the years 1581 and 1582, five or six years before Cervantes became a commissary in Andalusia. referenced to Don Quixote, edited by F. Rodriguez Marin (Madrid, 1912), Vol. III, pp. 52-53"
Leslie wrote: "In Chapter 28 (XXVIII), after the curate & barber meet Dorotea and she starts telling them her story, my book has the following footnote:Rodriguez Marin as the result of his researches in the arc..."
Interesting, my book has almost exactly the same footnote.
It is incredible how many sources of inspiration Cervantes used for his story, both fictional and real.
Now I'm up to the point when they read the novel about the two friends, again, can't wait to see what happens there. It's like reading several books in one, I love it!
Oh that's interesting, so Cardenio and Dorotea were based on real people. I think Cervantes used a lot of real life events and people in his book and as such the references may be lost to us without the footnotes. In this way it's reminding me of Ulysses. I haven't listened to any more the past few days, so I still have a lot of chapters to catch up with over the weekend.
I really enjoyed the section about Cardenio, Dorotea, Fernando and Lucinda!I hadn't realized that Cervantes was the original creator of Lothario (Lotario)! Though his character in "The Tale of Ill-Advised Curiosity" is a bit different from the modern connotations of the term lothario :)
Towards the end of this week's installment, we seem to be getting into a new story.
Quite behind with this still, I've just finished chapter 29. How's everyone else getting on?
I finished Part One today. I found that the story really picked up for me once Don Quixote was joined by his friends & then by Cardenio, Dorotea, Fernando and Lucinda.
I'm going to power through and try to catch up as much as possible, but still a lot of hours to go until I complete book 1. I'm glad to know the story picked up, it's certainly more interesting at the moment than it was at the beginnings of the book.
Pink wrote: "I'm going to power through and try to catch up as much as possible, but still a lot of hours to go until I complete book 1. I'm glad to know the story picked up, it's certainly more interesting at ..."I don't mind pausing here until folks catch up. I don't know how far along the others are...
This may not help you but I found each chapter to be fairly short so I just tried to read one or two chapters a day until I got to the weekly goal. If it was catching my interest, I would read more. Even now at 500 pages in, I find the length a bit intimidating so having the smaller goal helps motivate me.
Yes I like having lots of smaller chapters, it helps to get through half hour chunks at a time. I'll post back when I've listened to some more.
I've just gotten to the side story of Lothario. I was struck by the big shift in the overall feel of the book, which makes some sense as this story is supposed to have been written by someone else. You have to wonder if Cervantes went through something that temporarily changed his world view at that point in his life. Up to this point I was pleasantly surprised by how evenly the sexes were treated. Women weren't just portrayed as being weak and helpless, or sly and conniving. There was some of both of that but the men were treated no differently. Dorotea, in fact, is portrayed as very intelligent and quick thinking. The overall feeling of the book is positive, even when hearing the sad story of Cardenio or when Don Quixote and Sancho are being beaten on. Then I started the new side story and the tone changes. The positive and playful feeling is gone and is replaced by something darker. Anselmo sees women as ultimately untrustworthy and Lothario describes them as weak and needing to be kept away from temptation. The narrative involves trickery and betrayal. I haven't yet met Camila, so I don't know how she will be ultimately portrayed, but I'm not liking the current section very much.
I've also just finished the first part. I enjoyed the story of the captive because of the historical and autobiographical elements, but when it deviated from those it seemed kind of far fetched, also the fact that what kind of Inn was this were so many distinguished and varied characters just happened to drop by? Anyway, this didn't bother me that much as all the stories are wonderfully put together and vary so much in style and content. I loved it! Also found it very funny of Cervantes to make his own PR when the curate is given a novel and told the title of it (happened to be a real work by Cervantes) saying something like take this one that I found somewhere I think you'll enjoy it very much. Kind of *wink* "hey reader if you enjoyed my work, check out this other one" Can't wait to start the second part!
I'm ok with pausing as well. It is a BIG book and yes the chapters help a lot in terms of motivation. For me it picks up in parts were Im ploughing through it but in others, my attention starts to wonder. But I am loving all the varied types and styles of narrative and poetry. I read in the introduction of my book that some have said that the Spanish literary works and styles of writing prior to Cervantes could be reconstructed solely with the Quixote. I'm not that well versed to agree or disagree, but it gives me an idea of the high importance that has been placed on it for Spanish literature
Teresa wrote: "I've just gotten to the side story of Lothario. I was struck by the big shift in the overall feel of the book, which makes some sense as this story is supposed to have been written by someone else...."It seems to me that each mini-story has its own feeling. So I didn't notice any big shift (but I might just not have noticed).
About Lothario -- you said "Lothario describes them as weak and needing to be kept away from temptation. The narrative involves trickery and betrayal." My take was that both sexes were shown to be weak and that temptation was best avoided by all. (view spoiler)
Fab wrote: "... it seemed kind of far fetched, ..."LOL! And the other stories don't? I think that all the stories are far-fetched but that is part of the fun. I also think it is interesting to see how quickly others fall into Don Quixote's delusions even knowing that they are delusions (particularly Sancho, who seems to believe Quixote half the time!).
Leslie wrote: "Fab wrote: "... it seemed kind of far fetched, ..."LOL! And the other stories don't? I think that all the stories are far-fetched but that is part of the fun. I also think it is interesting to se..."
Lol, fair enough
I'm way way behind thanks to a conference and some exams. I'm only on chapter 17. I'll probably stay behind the group as I only have a month left of classes before finals, but hopefully I'll be able to do some catching up this weekend.
I'm still listening. Oh there's so many digressions in this story. I really enjoyed the section about Lothario, which was of course far fetched, but it fit in nicely with the absurdity of Don Quixote.I've just listened to chapter 40, which is the start of the captives story. I found that my mind was starting to wander, so I'm having a break.
It looks like I have another 5 hours to get through before the end of Part 1, so I'm happy to take a brief interlude! I probably won't be ready to start Book 2 for another week yet.
Pink wrote: "I'm still listening. Oh there's so many digressions in this story. I really enjoyed the section about Lothario, which was of course far fetched, but it fit in nicely with the absurdity of Don Quixo..."You are at a good place for a break Pink so don't rush yourself. A week's delay from the original schedule is not a big deal -- I am surprised that we haven't delayed more!
I've just finished chapter 46. I'm beginning to think that inn might be enchanted myself as so many characters keep arriving! Though Don Quixote is now being carried away in a cage! I've been reading spark notes after each chapter, which is helping me to understand the story more thoroughly and also the context. I didn't realise that Cervantes had been imprisoned himself and repeatedly tried to escape. I also have to keep reminding myself just how long ago this was written, Cervantes being a contemporary of Queen Elizabeth I and Shakespeare.
Pink wrote: " I also have to keep reminding myself just how long ago this was written, Cervantes being a contemporary of Queen Elizabeth I and Shakespeare..."I do too! Perhaps because we are reading it in translation it doesn't seem as old as Shakespeare.
I have also been using the SparkNotes to help make sure I am not missing anything. I think they are quite helpful & also a good way to refresh my memory of past chapters at times.
That's what I thought Leslie, it just doesn't seem as old as reading Shakespeare, but I suppose we'd think differently if we were reading the original and not a modern English translation. I'm so pleased with myself that I've finished the first part, it feels like a feat of accomplishment! I'm still enjoying the story, it has it's ups and downs and though sometimes my mind wanders, I often find myself laughing out loud at the absurdity.
The librivox narration is proving difficult to tolerate at times. The change of narrator and differing voices they use is humorous in itself, though it's not supposed to be! Some read at break neck speed, others at the tortoise pace, so I'm constantly adjusting the speed. The last narrator made Don Quixote sound like a village idiot, I think he was taking his supposed madness far too literally. Whereas Sancho sounded like a rural English farmer!
Pink wrote: "That's what I thought Leslie, it just doesn't seem as old as reading Shakespeare, but I suppose we'd think differently if we were reading the original and not a modern English translation. I'm so..."
I'm a native Spanish speaker and I'm reading it in the original Spanish/Castilian. It is not as hard to understand as I thought it would be, given the 400 years that separate us and it is funny how I recognized several phrases and slang which is still in current use today, at least in Mexico. Some of them I had never really given much thought of where they came from, so it's cool to learn about it with the aid of the annotations or just by the context. It would be nice to learn more on how the language has evolved not only throughout the years but among the different countries where it is spoken. Anyway, I found it overall surprisingly easy to understand, except of course for some obscure words, phrases and archaisms and the annotations help a lot with that. So, basically you are right, the language doesn't seem that old from a Spanish perspective, only when Don Quijote speaks, he uses a lot of arcaic terms and it becomes a bit more more challenging to understand
due circumstances iam behind. Ill catch up with you all later
I've made it to the end of Part 1. I'm excited to see what Don Quixote and Sancho get into next.
Me too Teresa! Yesterday I listened to the dedication and authors preface to part two, which were quick and quite fun. I'm going to start chapter one on Monday.
Awesome! Can't wait to see all your comments for Chapter III and IV, don't want to spoil it, but I enjoyed it a lot and I think you'll find it fun as well :)
So except for Bianca, are we all ready to start Part 2 this week?If so, then for the week of 17 April, we aim to cover Part Two, Chap. 1-13 (plus the introductory section to Part 2 if desired).
I suspect that some of it is lost. Starkie (the translator of my edition) does explain at least some of these in footnotes such as in the part you mention in Chapter 2, the confusion about castellan.
I had to laugh in Chap. 10 when Quixote claims that knights-errant go for months without eating because in all the books they only eat occasionally at state banquets: "In all the books I have delved into I have never found that the knights-errant ate, unless by mere chance..."! And Sancho's response was funny too, saying that he would provide the coarse fare for Quixote and for himself, who was not a knight, more substantial (and tasty) food.