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A Clash of Kings Discussions > 69 ~ Bran VII *** Discuss only this chapter and the book as a whole

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message 1: by Roseanne, RRRM (new)

Roseanne | 674 comments Mod
69 ~ Bran VII *** Discuss only this chapter and the book as a whole


message 2: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
I found some things we may choose to chat about upon completion of this book. Feel free to answer any of these you choose to.

Discussion Questions

This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?

Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones?

This book, more than A Game of Thrones, focuses on the religions of Westeros and abroad. Did you like the way George RR Martin handled this often sticky subject?

Do you have a hard time picking a side?

Do you think Arya would have been better off staying in Kings Landing as a Lannister hostage?

What did you think of Jaqen H'ghar? Do you think that Arya was smart to trust him or his iron coin?

Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?

What do think happened to Theon? Do you even care?

Do you think that Sansa should have left with the Hound on the night of the Battle of Blackwater Bay? Should she still be trusting Ser Dontos?

What do you think of Stannis? His claim to the throne is the best, considering what we know of Joffrey's parentage, but was Renly right to think that the people wouldn't want him as their king?

Do you think Bran is the first to discover his new power because he is crippled and so badly wants a way out?

Why do you think Qhorin Halfhand told Jon to switch sides, to join the wildlings?

Do you think that it was Cersei that tried to have Tyrion killed during the battle or maybe someone else?


message 3: by Roseanne, RRRM (new)

Roseanne | 674 comments Mod
Wow great questions. I love the second one the best. My opinion of everyone is constantly changing.


Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition They are great questions - I have opinions on all of them, but I don't want to hog the thread. Should we wait until the end of book 2 to discuss? That might be more fun than answering every question with a spoiler.


message 5: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Yeah I was hoping people would find these questions once they finished book #2 and opened this thread.


message 6: by LENA (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments I have finished the second book and I am about to start the third one... I've been distracting myself with other books but I think I can no longer hold back.. I really liked these questions. Do we discuss them here? Is there another thread??


message 7: by Roseanne, RRRM (new)

Roseanne | 674 comments Mod
WooHoo congratulations Lena! There isn't another thread for these questions. Its ok to discuss them here.


message 8: by LENA (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments "This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?"

I think Arya's journey is hardest. She is so young, just a little girl... She has great strength in her soul, but she is all alone.. Since the day her father was executed, she has been on the run, trying to survive.. alone.. Well there's Gendry and Jaquen. So she has some help. But she suffers a lot, and she witnesses the brutal executions of others while she stays captured in Harrenhal. If only she had another family memebr with her... Someone to protect her.. Like Nymeria.


message 9: by Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition (last edited Apr 05, 2016 03:56PM) (new)

Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition LENA wrote: ""This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?"

I think Arya's journey is hardest. She is so young, just a little girl... She has great strength in ..."


Yes, Arya does have the hardest journey, but she is extremely smart and resourseful, like Tyrion. Sansa would have never survived.

But why don't we see any of their direwolves?? They keep being hinted at and dreamed about but I am disappointed that there is not much interaction with the family members they are supposed to be a part of and protect.


message 10: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (flip18uk) This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?
Agree with Lena about Arya's journey being the hardest, she's one of my favourite characters. Wish I had half of her strength and resourcefulness.

Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones?
Yes, I feel a bit more sympathetic towards Sansa now. She needs to learn how things work a bit more quickly than she seems to be doing though, wish she had some of Arya's street smarts!

Think I understand Cersei a little more now but still don't like her.

Do you think that Sansa should have left with the Hound on the night of the Battle of Blackwater Bay? Should she still be trusting Ser Dontos?
Common sense would tell most everyone that The Hound is a much better bet to get you out of a situation than Ser Dontos, sadly common sense isn't one of Sansa's strongest points!


Do you think Bran is the first to discover his new power because he is crippled and so badly wants a way out?

Yes, he has so much more time to 'think' about things than the others do. I'm interested to see where his journey goes from here.

What do think happened to Theon? Do you even care?
No. :)


message 11: by Hazel (new)

Hazel Mercer (hazeofthemorning) Dead. I died. Or at least a part of me did at the very end there. I didn't have this much of an emotional reaction last time!

Discussion Questions

This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest? Arya's. Most definitely.

Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones? Yes, I started to despise Dany in this book. She turned into such a self-entitled little brat. "I am Daenerys Stormborn. Mother of Dragon and Rightful/Queen of ..." No. No you're not. Shut. Up! Educate yourself in the Law of Conquest. I could rant for years about her, but I think I'll stop there. :')

This book, more than A Game of Thrones, focuses on the religions of Westeros and abroad. Did you like the way George RR Martin handled this often sticky subject? Indeed, however I would like to learn more about the Drowned God.

Do you have a hard time picking a side? No. Lannister for life, yo.

Do you think Arya would have been better off staying in Kings Landing as a Lannister hostage? Hahahaha! No. Not with her temperament.

What did you think of Jaqen H'ghar? Do you think that Arya was smart to trust him or his iron coin? I'm sorry but my mind was clouded by the sound of his beauty to register whether he could be trusted or not. I joke. But seriously, he owed her. The debt was payed. But he obviously impressed her. The coin does no harm I think.

Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?
World building perhaps? Our eyes in Essos? All I know is her chapters make me want to punch someone.

What do think happened to Theon? Do you even care?
There were times Theon annoyed me. He was so pompous! Bordering on the Stormbrat's level. But otherwise I have sympathy for him. As for what happened? I thought he with the rest of Winterfell.

Do you think that Sansa should have left with the Hound on the night of the Battle of Blackwater Bay? Should she still be trusting Ser Dontos? Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! 100% should have gone with the Hound! Ser Dontos? Trustworthy? Meh, but I wouldn't trust him to help me out of a paper bag to be honest.

What do you think of Stannis? His claim to the throne is the best, considering what we know of Joffrey's parentage, but was Renly right to think that the people wouldn't want him as their king?
Renly. Another character I couldn't stand! Once again, Catelyn Stark had the right of it. He was a child playing at war. Stannis however I hold a certain affection for.

Do you think Bran is the first to discover his new power because he is crippled and so badly wants a way out? .... Never thought of it like that. No idea.


Why do you think Qhorin Halfhand told Jon to switch sides, to join the wildlings? ... To gain information.

Do you think that it was Cersei that tried to have Tyrion killed during the battle or maybe someone else? Wouldn't put it past her. I love her so much. <3


Not going to lie. I kind of rushed the discussion questions. My head still feel numb and hazy after finishing the book and I can't concentrate ...


Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition Hazel, I agree with you about Daenerys. Her character could have been developed a little better, I think. I was facinated by her and the Dothragi (sp?) and the dragon eggs in the first book, but now, her plan for world domination
is to announce who she is to anyone who will listen. Who is she, really? Who cares? Everyone thinks they should be ruling over everyone else at this point.


message 13: by LENA (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments I agree with Terry and Hazel... Though Dany is still one of my favourite characters she should be more careful while boasting about her magnificence and her numerous names-titles... You never know who Martin may decide to kill next... ;)


message 14: by Hazel (new)

Hazel Mercer (hazeofthemorning) Indeed, Terry. Characters like Deanerys and Renly just need to sit the eff down. They have no rights to any crown. Well ... Daenerys IS a Khaleesi to be fair but that is as far as her claim to royalty reaches at this point.

I agree, Lena, cunning has its own advantages.


message 15: by Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition (last edited Apr 09, 2016 06:40AM) (new)

Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition Hazel wrote: "Indeed, Terry. Characters like Deanerys and Renly just need to sit the eff down. They have no rights to any crown. Well ... Daenerys IS a Khaleesi to be fair but that is as far as her claim to roya..."

Right, she is royalty, but hasn't done anything yet to make her powerful or make people want to serve her.


message 16: by LENA (last edited Apr 10, 2016 11:22AM) (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments "Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones?"

My opinion of Sansa has changed a lot... I remember reading about her in the first book..thinking how stupid can she be?? Even though she has suffered a lot, she hasn't actually done something to change her fate, but I think now she is able to see things clearly...That made me like her a bit more...

Dany has changed a lot and that confised me a bit... As many of you mentioned above she has this exaggerated sense of self-importance, which is annoying, but there were moments I could actually feel the strength she has has in her, which was spine-tingling..I think she will continue transforming as the story unfolds in the next books. Let's hope she will not turn into a psychopath (aka her father). So, I still like her..but she is not my favourite anymore...

Tyrion... Well what can I say about Tyrion! I liked him in book 1. He was my third favourite. Well now he is No 1... I guess this means my opinion has changed a little bit, right?


message 17: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Just finished the book and will report back after I have had a chance to process at bit more. I nearly cried at the very end when Bran looked at the state of Winterfell and parted ways with his bro.

I definitely love thed Bran chapters the best in this book.


message 18: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
I will now answer a few:

***This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?

-Oh definitely Arya! She not only has physical hardships being on the run with little food and shelter but she has emotional hardships. She is just a young kid and has seen so much. Plus trying to come off as a boy cannot be easy.
______________________________________________

***Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones?

-Yes Sansa. She has grown on me. She is less self centered now and I feel for her. She has a ways to go but she is not so bad in Clash of Kings. I definitely love Bran waaaaaay more too. I loved his chapters.
____________________________________

***Do you have a hard time picking a side?

-No. As much as I love the Lannisters it is still House Stark I cheer for. Who doesn't like the good guys?!
____________________________________

***Do you think Arya would have been better off staying in Kings Landing as a Lannister hostage?

-No it is not in her character. She is a fiesty fighter with a bit of attitude. She would have ticked off the wrong person and they would have kicked her butt. Remember how well her time with Joffrey went?
___________________________________________

***Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?

-Renly : I reallly liked the dude but I don't think he had any right to the throne. Good looks and charm are one thing but he was not the heir.

-Stannis: He is kind of boring and drab in the book but he is the rightful heir as far as I am concerned. I don't like that he is so p---y whipped by Mellisandre. That chick is trouble! I like the dude a lot though.

-Dani: Sorry but her chapters bored me. I do see why she thinks she has a right to the throne. It was taken from her Dad so I cheer for her in a way even though I don't love her. Her dragons are more interesting to me than she is. I hope we see lots more of the dragons in book #3.

-Rob: He just want to be King of the north, not the whole realm. So I like him. He is likable but young; oh so young for all of this.
__________________________________________________

***What do you think of Stannis? His claim to the throne is the best, considering what we know of Joffrey's parentage, but was Renly right to think that the people wouldn't want him as their king?

-Renly is right to think that, however who the hell likes King Joffrey? Nobody said the King needs to be liked. The King is not given the crown based on likability.
___________________________________________________

***Do you think Bran is the first to discover his new power because he is crippled and so badly wants a way out?

-I really don't like this question. It seems too spoilery for me. It seems to be saying others will get this power. Bad question. (sorry if it spoiled anything; I only copied and pasted it from a site)

____________________________________________________

***Do you think that it was Cersei that tried to have Tyrion killed during the battle or maybe someone else?

-I hope it was not Cersei but I really don't know. I don't think so because She LOVES all the men in her family. lol Maybe Littlefinger or someone??


message 19: by Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition (last edited Apr 22, 2016 04:44PM) (new)

Terry ~ Huntress of Erudition Discussion Questions

This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?
ALMOST EVERYONE IS ALONE & HAS HUGE OBSTICULES TO OVERCOME.

Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones?
MY OPINION OF THEON WENT FROM BAD TO WORSE.

This book, more than A Game of Thrones, focuses on the religions of Westeros and abroad. Did you like the way George RR Martin handled this often sticky subject? MEH

Do you have a hard time picking a side?
YES, EVERYONE HAS THEIR STRONG POINTS AND WEAK POINTS.

Do you think Arya would have been better off staying in Kings Landing as a Lannister hostage?
NO WAY!

What did you think of Jaqen H'ghar? Do you think that Arya was smart to trust him or his iron coin?
YES

Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?
BECAUSE SHE IS A TRUE OUTSIDER - NOBODY KNOWS HER SO YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT HER FTOM ANYONE ELSE.

What do think happened to Theon? Do you even care? IT MAKES MY SKIN CRAWL TO THINK ABOUT IT.

Do you think that Sansa should have left with the Hound on the night of the Battle of Blackwater Bay? YES Should she still be trusting Ser Dontos?NO

What do you think of Stannis? His claim to the throne is the best, considering what we know of Joffrey's parentage, but was Renly right to think that the people wouldn't want him as their king?
STANNIS IS SMART AND SOMEWHAT FAIR - THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH HIM IS HIS RED GIRLFRIEND.

Do you think Bran is the first to discover his new power because he is crippled and so badly wants a way out? YES

Why do you think Qhorin Halfhand told Jon to switch sides, to join the wildlings? TO BE A DOUBLE AGENT

Do you think that it was Cersei that tried to have Tyrion killed during the battle or maybe someone else? DEFINITELY CERSEI - SHE PAID SER MANDON TO KILL HIM BUT HE GOT KILLED BY POD INSTEAD.


message 20: by LENA (new)

LENA TRAK | 221 comments "Do you have a hard time picking a side?"

No never... it's House Stark till the end! But I like Targaryens as well!

"Do you think Arya would have been better off staying in Kings Landing as a Lannister hostage?"

No, I think she was lucky and smart enough to realise she had to stay away. Through this journey she will become stronger. She would be dead if she had stayed.

"What did you think of Jaqen H'ghar? Do you think that Arya was smart to trust him or his iron coin?"

Yes, I believe she did the right thing. Jaqen will definitely play an important role in Arya's journey. I really can't wait to read more about this eerie character.

"Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?"

Well isn't it abvious? Dany is interesting. Who else should get to have their own chapters? Stanis? Boring... Jof?? As if his breathing is not enough...

"What do think happened to Theon? Do you even care?"

Don't care, he is too stupid to hate...


message 21: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Whoops I guess I read and answered the questions wrong.:

***Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?

I thought the questions said WHAT do you think of all the contenders. lol

Sorry for my idiotic answer above.


message 22: by Brianna (new)

Brianna (bebecburt) | 562 comments thoughts while reading:
It was kind of smart of them to hide in the crypts. No one would look for anyone alive in the land of the dead.


message 23: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Brianna wrote: "thoughts while reading:
It was kind of smart of them to hide in the crypts. No one would look for anyone alive in the land of the dead."


I agree.


message 24: by Ria (last edited May 16, 2016 07:08AM) (new)

Ria (ban1chka) | 440 comments Finally! I'm two weeks behind... again... 'cause of life, but I've got a long holiday headed my way, so I should be all caught up with you guys by the end of the month. I think I was stalling, though, whenever I reached a chapter where I knew someone would get hurt. Nothing seems to be getting better, only more confused and I kind of don't want to start the third book 'cause I know what will happen and I dread the thought of it.

Comments on the chapter: You know, I really like how GRRM describes the human world from the direwolves' viewpoint. I'd never noticed that before.

This book seems to be about journeys and hardship. Whose journey do you think is the hardest?
I would have to agree with everyone about Arya here, though Terry is right that all their journeys are difficult.

Did your opinion of any of the characters change from A Game of Thrones?
Well, I guess it would be more accurate for me to say that my opinion has changed since the first time I read the series, rather than only the first book. I find Daenerys has become much more boring and annoying. I used to admire her, but now I think she's just a small girl playing queen and conquest with her dragons. Arya has more balls and brain than her and she's much younger. I now realise that Stannis and Theon are whiny, arrogant, mysoginistic bastards, but they're still my second and first (respectively) favourite characters... which is actually also new, these positions used to be held by Ned Stark and Jon Snow. Ned has now evolved beyond such petty classifications, I think :D I appreciate Tyrion's humour much more now, too, so he's risen to the position of third favourite. Oh, and I'm disappointed in Renly and Robb. Neither of them is wise enough to play the game of thrones, regardless of what they might think. To be fair though, Robb was brought here by others' actions and was bound by honour to avenge his father, so he's just trying to do the best he can in a situation that can hardly be called advantageous, while Renly's fate was a direct result of his own arrogant and narcissistic desire to be king. He should've known better.

This book, more than A Game of Thrones, focuses on the religions of Westeros and abroad. Did you like the way George RR Martin handled this often sticky subject?
Meh, it was fine. But have you noticed that so far there has been some kind of proof for the existence of all the most common gods, except for the Seven? We have the Old gods with their eyes that can serve as portals for wargs (at least from what I've gathered), Aeron Damphair who became a priest of the Drowned god after having experienced somehting at sea, the shadow-children of Melisandre which somewhat prove the power of the God of Light... but nothing for the Seven.

Do you have a hard time picking a side?
I generally root for separate characters rather than their entire families, becuase no matter what I think of them, they always seem have an ally I hate or an enemy I love. I still vote for Stannis in the battle for the Iron throne, though. Too bad it's not a democracy.

Do you think Arya would have been better off staying in Kings Landing as a Lannister hostage? Certainly not.

Why do you think, of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, Daenerys is the only one we get to see as a point of view?
Never thought about it, tbh. I guess Renly and Robb weren't important enough and knowing what's in Stannis's head would've been too much of a spoiler. Since all of Dany's plans are too vague even for her and she kind of makes things up as she goes, it was safe to make her a POV character without ruining the suspence.

What do think happened to Theon? Do you even care?
I most certainly care, which is why I'm not sureI want to start the next book. (view spoiler)

Do you think that Sansa should have left with the Hound on the night of the Battle of Blackwater Bay? Should she still be trusting Ser Dontos?
Hell yes, she should've. She's absolutely no reason to trust Dontos, tbh. But that's Sansa for you... If it were Tyrion, he would've checked a hundred times before believing a word he says.

What do you think of Stannis? His claim to the throne is the best, considering what we know of Joffrey's parentage, but was Renly right to think that the people wouldn't want him as their king?
Well, I've already talked about that before. I completely agree with what Leslie said that just because the people like you, doesn't mean you should be the one to rule them. Stannis is definitely not a nice person, but he would make a fine king, especially in times such as this.

Do you think Bran is the first to discover his new power because he is crippled and so badly wants a way out?
Leslie said this question was spoiler-y, but at this point in the book Jon is already known to be a warg, too, so I disagree.
I've never thought about it that way, but I think it has more to do with the fact that Bran has basically nothing else going in his life. I mean, Robb has battles to lead, Sansa has no wolf, Arya lost her wolf and is too busy trying to survive, Jon has the Others to worry about, Rickon is too young to realise what is happening... It was kind of obvious that Bran would be the first to develop his powers. I'm still not sure all of them are going to do so. Plus, he had a life-changing experience to stir things up and both the three-eyed crow and Jojen to guide him, so...

Why do you think Qhorin Halfhand told Jon to switch sides, to join the wildlings? Well, he said it himself - inside knowledge.

Do you think that it was Cersei that tried to have Tyrion killed during the battle or maybe someone else? Somehow I doubt it. I'm curious to know what really happened, though.


message 25: by Ria (last edited May 16, 2016 07:15AM) (new)

Ria (ban1chka) | 440 comments PS. Sorry for the long post (and the typos), here's a ASoIaF potato: ASoIaF potato


message 26: by Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie), Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (new)

Not_Your_Typical_Lannister (Leslie)   | 1283 comments Mod
Great comments Ria.

re:
Oh, and I'm disappointed in Renly and Robb. Neither of them is wise enough to play the game of thrones, regardless of what they might think. To be fair though, Robb was brought here by others' actions and was bound by honour to avenge his father, so he's just trying to do the best he can in a situation that can hardly be called advantageous, while Renly's fate was a direct result of his own arrogant and narcissistic desire to be king. He should've known better. "

That is very true. Both guys felt so strongly about what they wanted.

And your potato is great!


message 27: by Ria (new)

Ria (ban1chka) | 440 comments Thanks :D


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