Series: Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson ("Gardens of the Moon")

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Ooh you're right, I confused dates! Booo

[Travis]

I also love Whiskeyjack and Rallick. Oh and Tattersail and Kruppe (though I think his character would have been more successful as a woman or gender fluid) and I really enjoyed Anomander Rake.

I feel like I was totally with all the events in this book while I was reading but now am struggling to remember. So many different threads playing out!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

*spoilers for the full book!*

I love Tattersail but (view spoiler)[ she wasn't on screen long enough for me to bond with her. Given the ending, I think we'll see a lot more of her, and I hope whatever she is now is at least as badass as what she was before! (hide spoiler)]

Hmm! Kruppe as not cishet is appealing. I may create a head canon around that.

I think I will come to like Anomander a lot. Right now he's too different for me to connect with, though I'm fascinated by him. I have hope for Apsalar, too!

I know what you mean about feeling like you got it at the time but now being unsure what exactly happened. I may do a brief summary so people can correct me?

(view spoiler)[ My understanding is we start off just before Laseen usurps the throne. Several years later, she's trying to keep the empire moving forward and has chosen expansion as the uniting factor. They recruit Paran to be one of the Adjunct's commanders, where he does a lot of bloody work with the hope one day of learning what destroyed his squad and exacting vengeance.

We then cut to Tattersail, who informs us the Bridgeburners (why are they called that?) have been trying to tunnel up to Moon Spawn. Both Bridgeburners and the wizard cadre are sent basically on suicide missions. The Bridgeburners, working with and loyal to Dujek get out in time to save a handful of the ~150 there used to be. The wizards however were set up by Tayschrenn, who killed most of them in the firefight with the Tiste Andii who are humanoid but super old and powerful.

Laseen wants to kill anyone who might undermine her, like wizards, extremely loyal soldiers and their beloved, extremely loyal commanders. (Do we get more on this besides paranoia? Because it's a pretty bullshit strategy and I didn't think Laseen was that much of an idiot.) Tattersail bonds with the Bridgeburners, who save/enslave her squadmate/enemy Hairlock. We learn she did bad things in her past, lost her lover, can read Malaz tarot cards and is powerful enough to take on Tayschrenn if it came to it. Cotillion, the god of assassins in service to Shadowthrone tries to kill Paran, who is saved for some reason by Oponn who returns him to life and magicks his sword so that it can now kill Hounds, which Paran shows by killing a Hound sent after Hairlock.

The next goal of empire is Dharujhistan. In Dharujhistan, an unlikely group of spies, thieves, dandies and assassins become central to the plot when Crokus just so happens to steal the coin of a god of luck. The friends are otherwise engaged in a plan to avenge their friend Coll that jus so happens to fit in very well with Empire plans as well as local politics. They concoct a way to reinstate their friend and protect Crokus.

Tattersail goes to Dharujhistan alone in the hopes of saving Whiskeyjack (wouldn't she have known Whiskeyjack has the communicator thing? She's old enough and close enough to Dujek, no?) We learn that Lorn has a T'lan Imass, which is some sort of zombie from before humans were born who are the ancient enemy (?) of the Jaghut. They're here to kill Whiskeyjack, yeah, but more importantly, their goal is to release a Jaghut Tyrant whose power is so immense that they hope that Anomander Rake will have to take it out before dealing with them. (Also seems pretty risky?)

Tayschrenn's emisary finds Tattersail before Tattersail can complete her mission, and in attempting to take her in, Tattersail sort of spontaneously sends her soul into something else and kills both of them. Paran goes after her and Toc is sucked into a warren (why didn't Paran know what it was that Toc had been sucked into? He's been through warrens before). Paran basically says eff all this noise and defects.

Meanwhile, the unsavory friends are concocting their plan, Anomander Rake is making alliances with Dharujhistan's mages, Caladan Brood is coming to protect the Coin Bearer kind of. Also there's a Tiste Andii assassin trying to kill lots of people but not really? I think this all confused me most.

We learn the unsavory friends have a Kruppe, who can control things in his dreams and is a spy master despite his silly outward appearance. They all decide to protect Crokus by taking him into the wilderness that will shortly be occupied by an army while Moon's Spawn hovers over them. I can relate, my friends often try to protect me by throwing me into lion's dens, too. Aaanyways, Lorn finds them, beats them up a bit, continues on after Sorry/ Cotillion.

Paran then finds the beat up Coll, makes friends and goes back with him. The others all get back to town fine, where Whiskeyjack has mined all the big intersections and an assassin war is brewing. They try to make contact with the local assassins, but are instead lured to a trap, where the Tiste Andii assassins pop out and people start calling on demons, making deals with Shadowthrone, throwing people off roofs and general chaos, and afterwards, killing their assassin clan leaders. Cotillion is persuaded to leave Sorry's body (why again?) and totally does it nicely. Sorry then becomes Apsalar, and Crokus wants to be her boyfriend.

The Tyrant is released and fights some dragons.

They all get together in time for a fete where Rallick also kills a council member, Murillio uses his sex super power, Kruppe tries to trap the Tyrant who runs away into Crokus' uncle's body. The mines are abandoned because they're on gas pockets (kinda important recon, my guys), Crokus' uncle/Tyrant kills a bunch of people before they bomb him to hell, the Finnest is defeated (what is the Finnest?) and instead an Azath is born, which creates a bower/prison for the Tyrant's soul again. Moon Spawn looms. Anomander becomes a dragon to fight another dragon that Lorn just so happened to have in her pocket, who is also a Gaylan lord, which sounds important but I don't know what that is. They duke it out, Anomander wins, Lorn dies sort of ignominiously due to one of Caladan Brood's soldiers and a few thieves/prostitutes. The assassin queen escapes, the badass Tiste Andii we saw a few times dies again fairly suddenly.

Everyone heads towards Pale to join Dujek for insurrection, except Apsalar, Crokus and their guards who are going to take her to the town that Cotillion wiped out. Rallick and Vorcan, the assassin queen/mage, head into the mystery bower to escape the pursuing Tiste Andii who decide now is a good time to try forgiveness. FIN

(hide spoiler)]

What did I miss?

[Soo]

I have been told that it can be spoiler-y to look up pictures of the characters but I am pretty sure my inner vision of Whiskeyjack does not compare to the drawing. I have to check that when I get home. Hahah

[Travis]

Allison wrote: " I may do a brief summary so people can correct me?."

Ummmm, brief?

That's an amazing summary! All of it squares with what I remember, including the parts that didn't quite align with the characters.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yeah... I tried to keep it brief, but I could only get the 666 pages down to about 30 pages. lol

[Anna]

Can I read Allison's summary and then mark this book read?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

No way, you're missing all the brooding, which is a whole facet of the story I didn't go into in my summary =P

[Soo]

Is it brooding or action action action WTF is going on?!?!

I felt like it was a variation of WTF is going on for most of the book. At first, it's because you have no clue. Later, you have a clue or two but events trample along with you running to keep up and getting annoyed that you can't stick with a particular character or event.

ETA: GAH! Writing ok has been tarnished forever. OK. O.K. Okay. Gah!

[Soo]

Anna wrote: "Can I read Allison's summary and then mark this book read?"

I got ya covered. I plan on making extensive notes. Hahahaha

*waggle fingers*

To Be Written

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Damn the man! The pronoun i shouldn't be capitalized! Apostrophes are just clutter! Ok is an acceptable transmorphism, which is itself a word the internet made up!

*watches the world burn*

But I am excited about your notes. You're right, there was lots of WTFery and also action to space out the brooding :D

[Peter_Banning]

Finally finished! And wow great review you did Allison. You definitely have the main gist of it. There were a couple things I noticed that I'm not sure if you happened to write it that way or if you misunderstood what happened. I don't think any of it was really plot altering though.

(view spoiler)[ Paran's sword was made magical by Oponn, idk why, maybe just to cause as many issues as possible for others and as a a bonus it was being able to stab the hounds.

Cotillion was pulled out of Sorry by Shadowthrone because Rake threatened to basically kill them is they didn't back off.

Crokus, I believe was actually given the coin by Oponn because, again they enjoy messing up others plans.

I think that was it though. I'm not sure if those will change how you viewed anything in the story or not?

As for plot, I understand that Rake wanted his people to kill all the assassins in the city before they could be used to kill the nobles and such, but then it is discovered that the mages are actually the true power in the city and so they become the target of the assassins aka Vorcan. I see how this part can be confusing.

The part that confused me was near the end with the battles... just a lot going on. In the desert, at the house, in the yard, in the house, in the streets. I feel like the author was held at gun point and told not to go over 666 pages. lol (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Thanks Darrik!

(view spoiler)[ Right, Rake threatened them, that's why I didn't remember. How does that make sense? We learn that the only way (I think?) that the gods can die is if people stop worshipping them. How can Rake get everyone to stop caring about Oponn sudden enough to be an imminent threat? Or do the Tiste Andii have other abilities? If so, how did they all get thwarted so easily by humans?

I followed the bit about Rake wanting to kill the assassins and the empire wanting to use them, though you're right I didn't include it in the summary :) Wasn't Vorcan hired by Whiskeyjack? So the Tiste Andii plot failed somehow?

Yeah, I had a hard time at the end remembering where everything was happening! Dragons kept landing or not landing, things were growing or not growing, Jaghuts were on hills and in uncles...it was quite chaotic! (hide spoiler)]

[Peter_Banning]

That ending was crazy, I had to take breaks and am still trying to work through things haha

(view spoiler)[ There is a part when K'rul is talking to the Jaghut Tyrant and says something along the lines of, in this age even mortals can kill a god. I think ignoring/forgetting the god doesn't necessarily kill them they just kinda fade away until something brings them back but there are, swords, magic, other gods, ascendant (mortals who become gods), that can actually kill a god. So Rake's threat was very real and with him being insanely powerful, Shadowthrone did want to take the chance of dying.

And yes the Tiste Andii plot did fail becuase they ended up going for the wrong target. In most cities, it seemed the assassins guilds were the true power and so the Empire would use them to cull the city of undesirables. However, in this city the mages are the true power, not the assassins. So the Tiste Andii were killing the wrong people and Whiskeyjack and his merry men realized who held the true power the mages aka the Cabal. So, they hired Vorcan to kill the Cabal. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Deadhouse Gates is now waiting for me at the library, and I promise to wait until the 1st to start reading it. Though this conversation is going to make that promise a hard one to keep.

[Peter_Banning]

Travis wrote: "Deadhouse Gates is now waiting for me at the library, and I promise to wait until the 1st to start reading it. Though this conversation is going to make that promise a hard one to keep."

I'm with you there lol

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Oh shit, we're supposed to actually wait? >.> Hmm. Interesting.

Darrik, thank you so much for that interpretation! (Full spoilers again)

(view spoiler)[ I had taken the bit about mortals killings gods metaphorically, but you're very right, it could well be that it's a real thing and Rake has that ability. I am so confused about what strengths and weaknesses people have, what with demons kept in pockets, simple cutthroats killing someone Tattersail is afraid of and so on.

When I say the Tiste Andii plot failed and it's surprising to me, I mean why has a race that's capable of taming dragons, killing gods, creating floating castles and taking on an entire host of mages basically alone not been able to find and kill some/all of the assassins? Vorcan is the only one we know of with magic, and apparently her abilities were so strong that she one-shot the immortal assassin.

I did like though the reminder of how serious Anomander is about his alliances that his head assassin gave her life to save Baruk. (hide spoiler)]

[Peter_Banning]

Haha I think someone in this group created a tentative schedule? and you are very welcome Allison like I said this is a great book to discuss with so much foreshadowing and hidden meanings.

(view spoiler)[ At first I though K'rul was just being metaphorical and then I realized with how afraid the gods seem to be of certain people/items, and how people can ascend and all, that K'rul was being literal lol. But the power balance I've heard was a bit hard for the author to maintain. If A crushes B and B crushes C, then why did C whip A ass. lol I think the author may have tried to balance that by having magical items to show that ANYONE is capable of being killed if the right item, spell, person, or time is involved.

Now although it doesn't actually say, I feel like the Tiste Andii did end up wiping out almost all of the assassins except maybe Rallick, Vorcan, and Ocelot. These three seemed to be the best and were mostly in hiding too.

Now, what I'm super curious about is near the end, Rallick takes Vorcan into the Azath tree thing. One of the Tiste Andi says, "The Azath choose their own. It was s with the Deadhouse. Two men were chosen: one who would be emperor, the other who would accompany him. Kellanved and Dancer." What does this mean, what is being foreshadowed??!!

And it was kinda sad when Serrat (?) died but like you said it does show how serious Rake and his people take alliances. (hide spoiler)]

[Peter_Banning]

Also so far, what has been everyone’s fav scenes?? 🙂 personally I love near the start when we are first introduced to Crokus. (view spoiler)[ He is having that death defying race, over the rooftops, from the assassins, at night and he got Oponn’s coin so he kept having all these lucky breaks!! I was so excited about that whole part! (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Darrik wrote: "Haha I think someone in this group created a tentative schedule? and you are very welcome Allison like I said this is a great book to discuss with so much foreshadowing and hidden meanings.

At fi..."

Yes, Soo was a real champion and made a really good timeline. But I thought it was more, like, a guideline. No? Okay, I will try to wait. *grumbles*

My favorite scene...hmmmm the intro to Crokus is indeed very good. I think I like the two reveals about Quick Ben a lot. (view spoiler)[ one, that he was a high priest of Shadowthrone and two that he is master of 7 warrens. WHAT! (hide spoiler)]

Orr maybe it's Paran when he (view spoiler)[ frees the Hounds. (hide spoiler)]

[Jen]

Don't wait! Deadhouse Gates is the best.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Jen wrote: "Don't wait! Deadhouse Gates is the best."

*Waits expectantly for the shoulder angel to show up next*

[Peter_Banning]

Those are both great parts too Allison. (view spoiler)[ I was laughing when quick Ben tells Shadowthrone who he is right as he disappears! Also really liked when Corporal blue briefly like destroys the Adjunct and the other guy is all calm about it talking to Crokus and is like, don’t worry about him he lives this stuff. Lol (hide spoiler)]

I think my shoulder angel is growing horns... lol 😂

[Peter_Banning]

Besides myself Allison and Travis, who else if reading the series with us? I’m trying to get some of my friends to join but idk...

[Bobby]

Allison, your summary is very good, but there are just a couple things I want to clear up from the confusing beginning.

(view spoiler)[Paran wasn't a part of the massacred squad, he was brought in to discover what happened to them.

The bridgeburners were digging under the walls of Pale, not up to Moon's Spawn, which was floating in the air.

There are some other things I could clarify, but they get explained more in depth later and I don't want to accidentally spoil anything (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Ah, thanks Bobby! Your second point makes much more sense. I wasn't sure how it would help if they achieved their goal :)

[Maggie]

The whole mystery of what happened at Pale threads throughout the series, so it's important to really try and examine what happened....
(view spoiler)[ First, Tayschrenn comes and tells the Mage cadre that Laseen has ordered them to hit Moon's Spawn within the hour, saying that they have intel which suggests that most of its inhabitants have gone to the battle going on in the north. (which is true, as we later see when Anomander is complaining to Baruk.)

As the squad realizes exactly who Anomander is, they are not liking the idea one bit, and Tayschrenn reminds them that this is Laseen's order.
They also discuss the other three mages. All old hands, none having had any recent duty. At a time when they were sorely needed.
During the battle, we see from Tattersail's POV that initially Tayschrenn sends a wave of golden flame against the Tiste city. Someone on the middle hill sends some blue fire to it, and Tayshrenn sends another fire blast.
Anomander responds with a black wave whichs Tayschrenn deflects and it kills all the soldiers on his hill. Tattersail calls it kurald Galin, chaos magic. She sees a wave sweep past Hairlock, cutting him in half Calot helps her protect herself and she sees he is staring in horror to the right, at the PLAIN, NOT moons spawn. He is then engulfed in flame. A demon rises and kills Nightchill. A'Karonys is shooting flame from his staff at Moon's spawn and is suddenly covered in ice and crushed. During this, Tayschrenn is kneeling at the first hill, shunting aside the waves directed at him while Moons spawn debris falls around him. Then moon's spawn retreats south. She feels magics around her telling her that a god is about. In the next scene, Whiskeyjack's squad talk about how the Bridgeburners were Ordered to stay in the tunnels
They all seem to assume that Tayschrenn killed everyone. Hmmmmmmm...… with a cold wave, a demon, and then ice? (hide spoiler)]

[Maggie]

Also, at the prologue Whiskeyjack is the fist and Dujek a sergeant. Suddenly Whiskeyjack is a sergeant and Dujek the High Fist. Maybe paranoia is a good word to describe Laseen>?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yes! Great additions, Maggie, thank you! Everyone, the spoiler is through through, I think, safe bet Book 3 of Gardens.

[Travis]

Maggie wrote: "The whole mystery of what happened at Pale threads throughout the series, so it's important to really try and examine what happened....
"

Thanks, Maggie! This is really helpful.

[Sabrina]

Thanks to all for their summaries. While I don’t really feel ready to re-start this series (I stopped after the first book in 2017), I decided there will never be a better time than to have some buddies. So, I started Deadhouse Gates today as well. Fingers crossed I don’t have to read more Wiki than book…

[Peter_Banning]

Lol it’s supposed to get easier after the first book. But between this and the tor rereads (if u do that) you should be able to figure things out.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Prologue of Deadhouse (DG)

(view spoiler)[ Are we just assuming a spy saw Paran? Lorn died thinking he'd come for her, and I don't think he's been put in front of the Empire yet, so how do you think Laseen found out that the Paran house has a traitor? (hide spoiler)]

[Sabrina]

Darrik wrote: "Lol it’s supposed to get easier after the first book. But between this and the tor rereads (if u do that) you should be able to figure things out."

Hopefully it will be easier!

I used the Malazan Wiki for the first book and think I'll stick with that. I found the TOR re-reads a bit confusing (I read a few summaries to refresh my memory)

[Peter_Banning]

(view spoiler)[ Allison, yeah I think so, a spy or assassin could have easily seen or heard something and then just reported back to Laseen. At least that’s what I’m assuming too l. And Sabrina, I’ve heard the wiki can be good just be careful of spoilers! Lol (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Please use spoilers. I haven't started Deadhouse yet. Will start 2/1! Woo

*runs off to read other books*

[Sabrina]

Darrik wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

I used the Wiki with the first book and was never really spoiled, though that might have been because I just kept to confuse characters...

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

He's really not doing us any favors.

Rallick Nom and Kruppe
Mallick Rel and Kulp
Temul, Tumlit
Lorn, L'oric, Heboric

There's a reason authors tend to do things like make really distinct naming patterns for different nations, races, or genders. It's because this is madness.

[Maggie]

Allison wrote: "Prologue of Deadhouse (DG)

[spoilers removed]"
(view spoiler)[Paran isnt the only member of his house :) (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

? No, I know that. I'm asking who else saw (view spoiler)[ Ganoes after Lorn died. (hide spoiler)]

[Peter_Banning]

I so far havn't noticed anything that addresses that specifically. (view spoiler)[ it may have been implied, the one in charge of Ganoes dies. The second highest ranking on the continent changes sides, and the squad Ganoes was put in charge of goes rogue. They may be assuming he has gone rogue too. But also, in this world of magic a simple crow, mage using a warren, might have seen something or maybe One Arm openly stated he is no longer with the empire and none of his men are either. They may also address it later in this book, cause we know the empire believes Ganoes has changed sides, but maybe he doesn't know the empire is aware of that? (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yeah. I'd be curious because I'd assumed the last they knew (view spoiler)[ Ganoes Paran was dead. (hide spoiler)]

[Peter_Banning]

You’re right! I forgot about that... 🤨 hmmmm

[Nav]

Don't ever use the Malazan wiki - you will spoil something for yourself. Coming from someone that has spoiled something for myself like 5 times by using that site. Don't do it.

If you have any questions you're unsure about the absolute best place to ask - is the Malazan subreddit on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Malazan/

And make sure you tag any posts with the corresponding flair, 'spoilers DG' for example.

Allison wrote: "Prologue of Deadhouse (DG)

[spoilers removed]"

GotM spoiler
(view spoiler)[ In GotM - Ganoes in that first scene in Itko, he says to Lorn that the officer corps of the Malazan military is being controlled by the nobles. Hence why Laseen wants to get rid of the noble houses, as they're a threat to her control over the military - House Paran being one of them. It's got nothing to do with Paran being seen or anything like that. :) (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Nav, can you put that in spoiler tags please for anyone who doesn't want your wiki experience? :)

Re prologue DG (view spoiler)[But then in this prologue they talk about treason, and the sudden fall from grace of House Paran in particular. So, I get why this is what Laseen wants by hook or by crook, but if they're not talking about Ganoes defecting, I'm very curious what the betrayal is they're talking about! (hide spoiler)]

Or are you saying that's just a fabrication for her end result? I could see that, but then I'm all mixed up o.O

[Nav]

How do I do spoiler tags? And you're wanting me to put spoiler tags on the part advising people to not use the Malazan wiki? I don't understand why. I'm saying that so people don't inadvertently spoiler the books for themselves. As it's really easy to do that on that wiki - I did multiple times, even when being careful. Once I found the Malazan subreddit, everyone said not to ever use that wiki till you've finished the series.

Only read below if you've read the first few chapters of DG.

(view spoiler)[ And yeah, they're talking about a potential defection by Paran - but they don't know exactly what has happened to him, hence the speculation. But it's nothing to go with someone seeing him kill Lorn.

And the fact they're talking about the fall of House Paran in particular, is because it's has completely collapsed. At this point Felisin appears she's being punished, no one knows what happened to Paran, and Travore is now Adjunct. And if you remember with Adjunct Lorn, being Adjunct requires you pretty much relinquish your entire past and forget that person you were - the part with Lorn and Tattersail at Pale. (hide spoiler)]

[Peter_Banning]

Nav wrote: "How do I do spoiler tags? And you're wanting me to put spoiler tags on the part advising people to not use the Malazan wiki? I don't understand why. I'm saying that so people don't inadvertently sp..."

To hide spoilers in here you use, < spoiler > TEXT < / spoiler > and leave out the spaces. but good info!

[Peter_Banning]

and I think she meant so people dont get ur wiki experience here, you should put stuff with details of the books in the spoiler things I mentioned above. :) the wiki incite is fine! just the rest haha cause this thread is for anyone reading the books with us and some are a little more behind then others.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Oh yes! Sorry for the confusion. Just the bit about the goings on with Laseen and the nobility :) Details about anything in the plot are considered spoilers, so if you could just hide any of that for folks, I'd appreciate it. DEFINITELY The last 2 paragraphs of your latest post needs to be in spoiler tags asap!!

[Nav]

Ah ok, can't edit it on the app :( will have to do it when I'm home.