Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
Heyer in General
>
Look what turned up at work today
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
Karlyne
(new)
Apr 14, 2016 02:01PM
I suppose that she felt that in writing a serious factual historical book, she couldn't put personality or words in the mouths of the main characters, because then it wouldn't be strictly "true". But just think what a great book she would have written if she'd infused some of her wit and humor into My Lord John or, yes, done a book about the Tudors or Bonnie Prince Charlie or Mary Queen of Scots. But, then again, those were serious, bloody times for the royalty, so maybe if she'd written from a serving girl's perspective, it'd be more natural and, therefore, more funny and real!
reply
|
flag
Karlyne wrote: "I suppose that she felt that in writing a serious factual historical book, she couldn't put personality or words in the mouths of the main characters, because then it wouldn't be strictly "true". B..."Certainly we see authors have a lot of success writing historical novels with famous characters as leads. I expect Heyer put financial success secondary to her goal of doing important writing, and would be upset about history praising for her humor and romance way ahead of her "serious" works.
Oh, Stanley Martin Lieber saved his full name for his serious works after his comic book writing was over.
I wonder if she thought of her historical novels as biographies more than novels? I don't remember reading that she did, but I've always thought of bios as more ponderous than historical fiction, and that's certainly the way hers come across!
& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived longer? He was proud of The Black Moth - would he have encouraged her Georgian writing? Would his influence have been stronger than her husband's who loved her mysteries & straight historicals?
b/ If GH hadn't had to financially support
I would expect that when money's an issue, she would spend more time writing books that pay well.And when money is *not* an issue, she would either spend more time writing what she enjoyed writing - or writing what she enjoyed having written. The latter could be *important* works - such as histories.
Maybe her money needs were good news to fans of her romances.
Georgette Heyer by Jennifer Kloester is a great biography if any of you are interested in reading more about her. A very easy read.Georgette Heyer
Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived longer? He was proud of The Black Moth - would he have encouraged her Georgian writing? Would his influen..."
I can't find my copy of the Koestler bio, but Wiki mentions that two of her aunts gave them money to open a sports store, which had living quarters above for Boris. I do remember that she supported the brothers, who were younger than she, and was the major financial contributor while her husband was switching careers - and beyond that time, too. And she complained as just about every other best-selling author of the time did that the taxes were killing her (or words to that effect), because she had to keep writing what would sell in order to pay them and not what she actually wanted to write.
It's interesting that so many successful women writers originally turned to fiction in order to help support (or totally support) their families. Well, not so much that so many tried, but that so many were so very good at it!
Teresa wrote: "Georgette Heyer by Jennifer Kloester is a great biography if any of you are interested in reading more about her. A very easy read.Georgette Heyer"I enjoyed it so much I seem to have lost my copy...
Well I enjoyed it. Thought it was well written.
Teresa wrote: "Well I enjoyed it. Thought it was well written."I enjoyed most of it. The start was rather TMI about trivia. & there were open spoilers about some of her mysteries in the edition I read.
The wiki link for Sir Richard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard...
I love GH's comment about him. I might check the source & see if it fits GR criteria to add as a quote here.
Karlyne, I'll check my Koestler about the maiden aunts later. :)
Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "Teresa wrote: "Well I enjoyed it. Thought it was well written."I enjoyed most of it. The start was rather TMI about trivia. & there were open spoilers about some of her mysteries in the edition I..."
Oh, sure, you know where yours is! Did I tell you that after being MIA for over a year, Venetia showed back up last summer? Gremlins with a taste for Heyer, I think...
Howard wrote: "I would expect that when money's an issue, she would spend more time writing books that pay well.And when money is *not* an issue, she would either spend more time writing what she enjoyed writin..."
I suspect you are absolutely right Howard! She clearly found writing her romantic historical stories of the 18th/19th centuries relatively 'easy' and although she put in a lot of work into the research, she never gave herself the credit she deserved for her achievements. I for one am pleased that financial motives kept her writing what in my opinion she did best! Otherwise, my experience of her 'serious' historical epics would have meant my acquaintance with GH would have been very brief!
Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived longer? He was proud of The Black Moth - would he have encouraged her Geor..."
Judith L. Jane Aiken Hodge, in her biography of GH, states that GH and her husband never really got a hold on how to handled their taxes arising out of the books. Well, I'm no expert on current IRS here in the US, but apparently with tax expert legal help there might have been something that could have helped them.
Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived longer? He was proud of The Black Moth - would he have enc..."
I just finished my taxes, Judith, so all I can say is "Phooey!" Ha! My ornery, independent spirit hates mandatory anything, especially taxes, so I feel Heyer's pain.
I think, too, that the U.K.'s tax laws changed dramatically in the last century, especially the post-war period, so it had to be a very confusing issue. I wonder if lawyers specializing in tax law were plentiful? I'm trying to remember who advised her to set up the LLC, whether it was a "stranger" or not. It didn't seem to work out the way she hoped it would!
It's hard enough to pay taxes on wages, but paying taxes on creative works, even the money made on them, has to be rather like paying taxes on your child's accomplishments. Very resentment-making!
Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived longer? He was proud of The Black Moth - wo..."
From what I've read, neither she nor her husband were very good at accepting advice from anyone in respect of handling the finances. It does seem from both biographies on her, that instead of making use of expert advice (and there were certainly plenty of specialist tax experts around then!) they decided they knew best. It seems a really odd trait for supposedly intelligent people to have, but there you go - we are all only human! The resentment about paying tax is no doubt common but everyone knows that at the end of the day (unless you have access to Panamanian lawyers and accountants), you have to pay!!
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived longer? He was proud of The..."
That's exactly it - the "having" to pay. I, for instance, am always scrupulous about paying, but I just plain hate being ordered around. On the other hand, if I had a lot of money to invest and didn't know how to do it without paying bazillions in taxes, I'd look for expert advice which would fit in with who I am and what I want to do. That sounds so simple that I do wonder why they didn't!
Perhaps because they both grew up during a completely different tax time, they just plain couldn't believe that they might not know how to deal with the newer regulations? Ha! That reminds me - it took me longer to figure out my Obamacare share than it did to do the whole filing - because it's new & wordy, to say the least. I knew I could do it, but, if it'd been going to cost me years' worth of wages...
Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her father had lived..."
Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;
a/ Her father had lived..."
I don't think UK tax system changed that much in that period and HMRC certainly operates in a different way to the US system. I am not familiar with Obamacare but I know that here in the UK most people who have money know their best bet is to use experts to make sure they don't pay more tax than they need to!
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to in her writing if;a/ Her ..."
I had just assumed that the laws had changed, because it seems so many of Heyer's contemporaries found taxes so difficult!
U.S. taxes are fairly straight-forward, as long as you have simple income and not diverse investments. I do have a background in bookkeeping, but I think anyone can file her own taxes with just a bit of math savvy and some strong coffee! And when the laws do change, as with the Obamacare stuff, the instruction books may leave you with crossed-eyes, but they can be followed. My best friend is a tax accountant and every year I tell her I don't know how she does it!
Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH would have turned to..."For most people in the UK - (if in employment) - they don't have to worry about tax returns in the same way as Americans. PAYE sees to that. Self employed (and that would include artists, musicians and writers like GH ) are different. But again, employing specialists would be the norm.
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Judith wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "& I do wonder what fork GH woul..."Does everyone actually have to file returns, Susan? It's such a tedious thing, but it's just what we have to do (with a few exceptions).
Heyer's stubbornness does seem to have cost her a lot in both mental and financial stability.
Also from Koestler I remember they did have an accountant who GH found incompetent but it took her years to replace him. She was so busy that she never found time to do some things.&, as someone said upthread, GH & her husband were strong willed people = very difficult to advise.
NZ has had PAYE tax for years. Now in a lot of circumstances you don't even need to fill out a return. When you don't see the money you don't feel so much like it has been taken from you!
I'm heading out of town, but I look forward to your answer when I return Monday. Have a great weekend, too.
Karlyne wrote: "I'm heading out of town, but I look forward to your answer when I return Monday. Have a great weekend, too."Just like Carole says, most folk don't need to fill in a return very often. I think I filled in one about 3 times in the last 20 years that I was working. Basically, if you stay in the same job. As the tax is deducted at source, you kind of get used to it. It's a bit like paying by credit card - you know the money is getting spent but you don't really feel it!
Karlyne wrote: "I'm heading out of town, but I look forward to your answer when I return Monday. Have a great weekend, too."Aaarrrggghh I'm a slacko! I'll skim my Koestler this afternoon
Same here in Ireland. Everything is taken at source. Less painful that way as well :)
Karlyne wrote: "I'm heading out of town, but I look forward to your answer when I return Monday. Have a great weekend, too."I started delving into my Koestler last night & got completely sidetracked by so much great info!
My book opened naturally at what Karlyne mentioned - that the aunts loaned the Rougiers the money for the sports shop.
But on page 269 I found;
Her aging relatives were another reason why Georgette still struggled to relax about money. For twenty-five years she had been her family's financial safeguard - no easy task during the Depression & the War-& yet, despite the anxiety it often caused her, it was not a responsibility she chose to relinquish.
The next couple of lines make it clear she is talking about her aunts as well as her mother.
So unless there is something else in the Koestler, I should amend my comment to she had some financial responsibility for her aunts. Near the end of their lives maybe they ran out of money?
Heyer and Lucy Maud Montgomery would have gotten along like two peas in a pod. Maud also wrote to support her family's lifestyle. She found the Anne of Green Gables books were much in demand and she HATED writing more sequels. She longed to write a serious adult book and felt there was never enough money. She died before Heyer's books really took off, which is a pity. She would have loved them and they would have gotten along great as pen-friends.
We have "withholding tax", which is the approximate amount somebody figured out is what you should owe, but just about everyone still has to actually file. The lucky ones get money back, although without interest so it would have been better in the bank, and the unlucky get to send a check in with their returns. Count me unlucky in taxes this year.QNPoohBear, did you ever see the PBS show from a few decades ago, "Meeting of the Minds"? It was a show about what it would be like if different characters from history met around a table to talk, and I immediately thought of Heyer and Montgomery at the table. Probably having tea... And I want to be there, too!
Interesting article I found on Facebook this a.m. https://hands-across-the-sea-samplers...
Some nice illustrations.
Jacquie wrote: "Interesting article I found on Facebook this a.m. https://hands-across-the-sea-samplers...
Some nice illustrations."
I read in the novel "Household Gods" of women in the late Roman Empire wearing underwear. Maybe that was just a monthly thing (I don't remember) - but monthly needs would apply in all eras.
This one has been sitting at work for a while & I'm under a bit of pressure from my boss to get rid of the old hardbacks.It's an old hardback copy of Beauvallet, complete with the Beauvallet family tree. I do have a feeling I've seen this family tree before.
I also brought home The Deans Watch by Elizabeth Goudge & a Dorothy Dunnett. Both paperbacks with faded covers.
At the moment I have got my boss to agree to just getting rid of the 80s & 90s hardbacks, unless they are an author like Stephen King. They aren't old but they aren't new either & they just don't sell.
Ooh, Carol, what a haul for one day—all three books are treats! Which Dunnett? I’m in a minority in adoring the Dolly books.
Let me join you, Abigail! I only have a copy of Dolly and the Singing Bird but have read several others.
Abigail wrote: "Ooh, Carol, what a haul for one day—all three books are treats! Which Dunnett? I’m in a minority in adoring the Dolly books."It's Caprice and Rondo - Vol 7 in the House of Niccolo series. Tadiana has very kindly sent me the books in the Lymond Series - goodness knows when I'm going to get all this reading done!
I adore the Lymond Chronicles, and the Niccolo series. My second or third time through Lymond, I acquired the companion books with all the quotations translated and historical references explained, which as a teenager I had to go to the library and research. I think she wrote for people who had the benefit of an Oxbridge education, but I was willing to do the work to appreciate Lymond and Philippa's verbal duels and bon mots. The denouement of their story made me cry, and various episodes along the way did as well.
Elizabeth Goudge is a particular hero of mine...
Karlyne wrote: "Elizabeth Goudge is a particular hero of mine..."My mother reminded me today of her autobiography, The Joy of the Snow.
HJ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Elizabeth Goudge is a particular hero of mine..."My mother reminded me today of her autobiography, The Joy of the Snow."
Positively inspiring book. She's so gentle and yet so confident that I really do think of her as a hero!
Elizabeth Goudge helped me through so much. She has a special place in my heart.
Mine, too, Kim. She's not just a comfort read to me (although there's nothing wrong with that!). Her books remind me that our lives do have purpose, that the universe isn't just a mindless mish-mash of elements. I think my favorite of hers is The Rosemary Tree, by the way.
I love the way you guys write about her!
The way she tells us the story and helps us make sense of the world, somehow gently and yet without waffling, is pure genius. And her portrayals of kids and animals are the best I've ever read, too. Oh, and the sympathetic way she has with the outcasts of society? Did I already say genius? She really does live in my heart!
Back when I first was reading her I was young and did not really think about "comfort" reads. But, then, I grew older and life happened & old favorites revisited were comforting. But they were always valued as great books, not just comfort. Actually, for me, a book has to be amazing and to stand out in the first place to make it to comfort read status.
Kim wrote: "Back when I first was reading her I was young and did not really think about "comfort" reads. But, then, I grew older and life happened & old favorites revisited were comforting. But they were alwa..."You are absolutely, positively right! There's simply no way that a book which is comforting can be a poor book, or even an average book. We go back to them because they really are great books!
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Joy of the Snow (other topics)The Joy of the Snow (other topics)
The Dean's Watch (other topics)
Georgette Heyer (other topics)
Georgette Heyer (other topics)
More...
