Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion
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Little Women
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Week 1
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message 1:
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Lisa
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rated it 5 stars
Jan 30, 2016 12:41PM
Chapters 1- 11
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Just started listening this evening.
I truly thought I had read this as a teen but I'm at Chap 9 and I know I haven't. I did watch the 1994 movie with: Winona Ryder
Susan Sarandon
and a couple years ago I saw the 1933 version with Katharine Hepburn and the 1949 version with June Allyson.
I am enjoying the lovely family, their friends and neighbors.
That's so interesting! For me this was a pivotal part of my childhood, I can only imagine how different the experience would be coming to it for the first time as an adult. (Although I never saw any of the movies!)
Any reactions yet to the first part? Do these girls feel different to you now than they did in your childhood?
Hey guys, apologies for my absence from leading the discussion. Thanks Alexa for standing in for me, I was away from my computer due to family reasons.Just reading week 1 & 2, then I'll post some thoughts.
Thanks Alexa.
Meet the March sisters.I first met the sisters when I was 10 following a Little Women cartoon on TV. My gran took me to the library to find the book. I've reread it many times over the years.
16 year old Meg- ladylike and demure who dreams of romance and wishes for days of poverty to be past. She has taken on the role of governess to the King family. I'm always taken aback by novels with teenagers caring for children in this way. As a child I was amazed how responsible Meg was but didn't envy her task at all
15 year old Jo is a tomboy who loves to read and write and dreams of doing something great. She is friendly, outspoken and has a temper but a kind heart. She is Beth's protector and close to Meg but often disagrees with Amy. As a kid, I admired Jo's outspokenness but it took me time to love her as a character. As an adult, she's definitely a well- loved and admired female character from the time period and I think I have more 'Jo traits' than those of the other sisters.
13 year old Beth, a shy homebody who is musically gifted, her kind and gentle ways have great influence over her family. As a child, I wanted to be more like good & loving Beth. But as an adult I wonder if her shyness was social anxiety disorder. Maybe I today's age she would benefit from therapy. Beth makes me wonder about what happened to people with mental and emotional illnesses that affected their roles in society. Of course, Beth has a loving and protective family who help as much as possible,but what if she had had a different family.
Amy is 10, artistic, opinionated and sees herself as quite an important person. Her mannerisms are amusing but mostly she is just young and trying to fit into a world far wealthier than the one she comes from.
Mod
Thus far I really like Jo. I too was a tomboy and the "man" of the family when my Dad had to leave on trips for his job. I can relate to what's coming out of her mouth lol.
I read this book over and over as a child, and I seriously think it did me a lot of good. The whole concept of trying to be a "better person", kinder, more forgiving and loving was not something I thought about in my day-to-day life. And temper? Whew, I can still relate to Jo's (and Marmee's) problem. I'm sure that the moralizing seems heavy-handed to most of us now, but not only did it not bother me as a child, but I positively reveled in it. I found it comforting to know that such people, flawed and working on their flaws, existed in the world!
Anastasia wrote: "I just started the first chapter yesterday but I think your thoughts on Beth are interesting, Lisa. That had not occurred to me but it is an interesting thought to ponder.Thus far I really like J..."
Is this your first read?
Karlyne wrote: "I read this book over and over as a child, and I seriously think it did me a lot of good. The whole concept of trying to be a "better person", kinder, more forgiving and loving was not something I ..."That was my experience too.
Something I read today, was that Alcott based the 4 sisters on herself and her 3 sisters: Anna (Meg), Lizzie (Beth) and May (Amy), Alcott saw herself as Jo.
The characters have exaggerated good qualities: Meg's beauty (internal and external), Jo's independence, Beth's tranquility and Amy's commitment to her talent. These were qualities that Alcott felt should be admired in women. The title Little Women, refers to young girls on the cusp of adulthood, learning about what it means to be women.
Alcott also focuses on several themes including domesticity, morality and individuality. She was encouraging young women to see their value within their own families and households, whilst holding onto their own individuality within society.
The March sisters are certainly close, each with her own important role within the household and each an individual within her own right. They stand out from the background characters like Sallie, Annie and Belle who all seem kind of samey.
Mod
Thus f..."
I think I read the really little kid's edition when I was little.
I've got some thoughts about morality which I will share in the morning.
I've often wondered if the Father in Little Women was at all like Alcott's own father. He, too, lost all of his money so that they were poor. Alcott's father seems to have been a dreamer who lived by his principles, but was not much in the way of being a bread-winner. The underlying current of "being poor is a pain, but it's good for us" that runs through the novel makes me wonder just how she really felt about ending up as the support of her family.
Karlyne wrote: "I've often wondered if the Father in Little Women was at all like Alcott's own father. He, too, lost all of his money so that they were poor. Alcott's father seems to have been a dreamer who lived ..."My understanding is that Mr March was an idealized version of Mr Alcott. Mr Alcott espoused many of Mr March's educational and religious principles but was unemployed, dictatorial and a blight upon his family who at times had no food for their table.
But I've often wondered just how an author does write a sort-of true story and yet deal with the foibles of real people in a loving way. It seems to me that Louisa completely left out anything remotely negative with regard to Mr. March. He is wise, kind, and, although not rich, the family definitely had butter for their bread (I seem to remember a comment by Mrs. Alcott in a letter that they were hard put to it to have bread and definitely had no butter). She was able to portray herself and her sisters as real people with real faults, but it looks as though she just couldn't bring herself to give her father any. Was that a mark of respect or just pure unadulterated wishful thinking, I wonder?
Maybe she felt that she had the chance to make one part of her world better, so she created a physically absent but emotionally present father.
So morality as evinced in Little Women. In the first chapter the sisters remember the story The Pilgrim's Progress and how they used to 'play at pilgrims'. Each admits to their burden: Meg her vanity, Jo her temper, Beth her shyness and Amy her selfishness. They resolve to deal with these burdens with guidance from their 'little books'.Each sister is confronted by her burden and the chapters where these confrontations occur are named after events in The Pilgrim's Progress.
Beth finds the Palace Beautiful: Beth needs to confront her shyness to play the piano at the Lawrence's and later to thank Mr Lawrence for the gift. The Palace Beautiful refers to a place built by God to provide rest for weary pilgrims.
Amy's valley of humiliation: Amy is punished for taking limes to school which she refused to share with certain girls. The Valley of Humiliation is where Christian from The Pilgrim's Progress battles the dragon Apollyon. This links her story with Jo's.
Jo meets Apollyon: Jo and Amy quarrel and Amy burns Jo's manuscript. Jo ignores Amy when they are skating and Amy almost drowns. Apollyon is the demonic ruler of the City of Destruction.
Meg goes to Vanity Fair: Meg allows the Moffats to appeal to her vanity and makes a fool of herself. A never- ending fair that represents man's sinful attachment to worldly things.
There's more references later on.
Karlyne wrote: "But I've often wondered just how an author does write a sort-of true story and yet deal with the foibles of real people in a loving way. It seems to me that Louisa completely left out anything remo..." Message 16It could be that Alcott followed the rule: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
I did adore Jo but was taken with all the girls. I would have loved Marmee for my own (not that I'm unhappy with my mother) she was always so warm, even when upset, and knew what each child needed.
Lisa wrote: 13 year old Beth.....message 7...
That is an interesting thought, especially what would have happened if she were in a different family...in which case she may have been shipped off to a convent or an asylum. I was just happy that Mr. Laurence was ever so patient and kind with her once he realized the situation. He brought Beth out of her shell and she in turn brought him to peace and a deeper love for others.
Karlyne wrote: message 9....
I loved the moral fiber of the story and was also comforted by the flawed but good people. Even with it's moments of sadness and trials it was a pleasantly hopeful story about a family who came from wealth only to have it cast from them and how they cope with daily life from there.
Oh, Lisa in message 7 you also wrote about Amy trying to fit into a world far wealthier than hers which is true however, she comes by that fairly naturally as she is brought up with older sisters who remember the wealth and talk about it in bits and baubles often so I think it quite natural that she would strive to attain that level of status again. At times it's painful for us to watch/read/hear but she never loses that firm grasp and in the end is able to attain it. Is she a better person for it? Probably not always, but she didn't give up even when ridiculed which to me means she's got that "never say die" attitude that would be good for many of us.
Thank you to Lisa for moderating and to all for participating, it was a very good story and I'm happy to have finally read it. Now, on to Sense and Sensibility, as well as Jo's Boys. Look forward to sharing with everyone again soon.
Don't forget Little Men, which is between Little Women and Jo's Boys! I've always been partial to Eight Cousins and Rose in Bloom, too.
Karlyne wrote: "Don't forget Little Men, which is between Little Women and Jo's Boys! I've always been partial to Eight Cousins and Rose in Bloom, too."Thank you, I forgot about Little Men. I actually have all of her books in hard cover...they were among my mother's books and given to me by her when I was a teen. It's funny that I read the Nancy Drew books and some of the others but for some reason I don't remember reading the Alcott series. I must see if LM is in audio.
I wore my hard cover of Little Women right out of its covers! My daughter got me a new copy for Christmas this year with the 1948 illustrations by Louis Jumbor, which are nice, but he persisted in showing Jo with '40s hair even after the cutting episode and I find myself growling. I miss the Reisie Lonette illustrations in my old, falling apart copy - I thought they were practically perfect!
Mod
Thank you, I forgot about Little Men. I act..."
I read Nancy Drew too!
An interesting postscript to a reading or re-reading of Little Women, for those of you who have not already read it, is a book entitled March, about the year that the father of the March family is absent from the family home, away serving as a chaplain with Union military forces in the Civil War. It was written by Geraldine Brooks, who also wrote Year of Wonder, about a plague year in England and a town that decided not to flee the contagion. And she also wrote People of the Book, about how a sacred book actually survived intact for half a millennium in Europe because a succession of protectors from varied and sundry faiths, races, ethnicities, nations, and cultures were determined it should be preserved.
Karlyne wrote: "I wore my hard cover of Little Women right out of its covers! My daughter got me a new copy for Christmas this year with the 1948 illustrations by Louis Jumbor, which are nice, but he persisted in ..."Do you mean the pictures on the endpapers and on to the front paper? My copy has no pictures inside only at those places just mentioned. They are simple drawings and Jo has short hair in it.
Mizzou, Thank you. I'll look to see if I can find this book as it sounds very interesting.
Powder River Rose wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "I wore my hard cover of Little Women right out of its covers! My daughter got me a new copy for Christmas this year with the 1948 illustrations by Louis Jumbor, which are nice, but ..."Both my copies have color plates and illustrations through-out!
Mine must be the "poor man's" version which would have been most appropriate for a young child.
Powder River Rose wrote: "Mine must be the "poor man's" version which would have been most appropriate for a young child."Mine was actually a part of the Literary Guild, children series; you'd probably recognize the covers since you see them in used book stores all over (fairy tales, Robert Louis Stevenson, Sherlock Holmes) . Although the color plates are beautiful, the books themselves are definitely for children and are cheaply bound. Trust me, I was a seriously poor child - with a crazy love for books that my more affluent relatives occasionally indulged. We moved so often that the only things I have from my childhood are my books; I learned early to pack them myself and sit on the boxes until I knew they were going with us!
My 88-year-old husband, Ed, still has his boyhood copy of Treasure Island, illustrated by N.C. Wyeth, given to him long years ago by his Swedish immigrant father. And that would have been during the "Great Depression" . . . Hello, Karlyne, from another "seriously poor child" (Ed)
Mizzou wrote: "My 88-year-old husband, Ed, still has his boyhood copy of Treasure Island, illustrated by N.C. Wyeth, given to him long years ago by his Swedish immigrant father. And that would have been during th..."I think that's one of the things I've always enjoyed laughing at in Little Women. I'm sure I must have, at least sub-consciously, thought that they were fairly rich. I mean, a whole house that they apparently owned, flowers, enough food to give away, seriously wealthy relatives - wow!
Oh, and one thing that I always had - the library. No matter where we lived my mother always made sure I had a library card within a week or two of moving. I remember living in Idaho, but the nearest library was in Washington, so I had to spend $.25 for each card in order to check out one book (one per card). Luckily, I was in great demand as a babysitter so I was able to afford about six cards, which would get me through a week!
Mizzou wrote: "An interesting postscript to a reading or re-reading of Little Women, for those of you who have not already read it, is a book entitled March, about the year that the father of the March family is ..."I had heard of the story but didn't know the name of the book or author. Thank you.
Karlyne wrote: "Oh, and one thing that I always had - the library. No matter where we lived my mother always made sure I had a library card within a week or two of moving. I remember living in Idaho, but the neare..."Also always had a library card, no matter what. I was fortunate enough to be able to walk to our library.
Our local librarian thought I was hilarious when I opened a library card for my daughter at 4 months old. We are now regulars. I choose books and she entertains the librarians.
Lisa wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Oh, and one thing that I always had - the library. No matter where we lived my mother always made sure I had a library card within a week or two of moving. I remember living in Idah..."When my younger daughter was 3ish, she used to check out Nancy Drews. I think it bugged the librarian, because she knew she wasn't actually "reading" them, but I figured that carrying around and turning the pages of books would do her nothing but good. And I was right. She's been a serious reader all her life!
We're getting 'way off topic, but I gotta tell you all this-----I read Lois Lenski's Papa Small books to my toddlers (in the late 1950s-early 60s)), and I got so 'burned out' doing it that, finally, one time, I read it to the child in Spanish, and the little twerp 'bought it', turning the pages in the precise rhythm and with no murmur of confusion at what Mama was doing (leyendo Papa Pequeno). And no, ours is NOT a bilingual family!
Mizzou wrote: "We're getting 'way off topic, but I gotta tell you all this-----I read Lois Lenski's Papa Small books to my toddlers (in the late 1950s-early 60s)), and I got so 'burned out' doing it that, finally..."Kids! They make me laugh everyday!
**smiling** Each of us have such stories to tell. Thank you all. Mom was a mountain child and the town below was quite poor also with no library. They had to travel 46 miles by train to the city...grandpa worked for the railroad. Mom always thought of grandma as very like Mrs. March though she didn't appreciate it at the time.
Surely most of us see ourselves in some aspect of each of the girls or maybe just one of the girls. I would have to say a little of each for myself.
After reading about Alcott's father I truly can see why she would have made the fictionalized version more perfect in the eyes of the world. Who would want to have ideal characters with one of the main to be such a flop.
Powder River Rose wrote: "**smiling** Each of us have such stories to tell. Thank you all. Mom was a mountain child and the town below was quite poor also with no library. They had to travel 46 miles by train to the city......"You know, I've always thought that Alcott portrayed her father so idealistically because he was a flop as a father, but as I'm reading it this time, I'm wondering if maybe she really did see him this way? Although I'm sure I'd be too intimidated to ask (and it's such an impolite question - "Was your father a failure in your eyes?"), wouldn't it be fun to listen to her talk?
I'm really enjoying Alcott's sly humor, especially at the expense of the nationalities her characters come into contact with (no exception made for the Americans, either)."The German Serene Something, having come for the supper alone, roamed vaguely about seeking what he might devour" is a sentence worth smiling over. I think she had a lot of fun in many of her descriptions.
