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Emma should this and Emma should that...
EXACTLY!!!! Completely agree!! Especially in regards to that petition that's going around. We should be using Emma as an inspiration for us to start a change in our local communities.
This is such a great point, thank you for bringing it up! We can all promote feminism and positivity in our own communities. Even introverts like myself, who might not be comfortable in the spotlight, can help in our own ways :)
That's so true! I completely agree. It's so, for lack of a better word, selfish of people to expect things to change or be done without ever trying themselves. It's ridiculous!
A very valid point. Trying to say miss Emma should do those things is pushing off what you could be trying to do yourself. If you think she should do it, then you should probably be trying to find a way to do it yourself in my opinion. She's just a person like the rest of us, as you said.
Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objective here, but she doesn't have the education, background, or job qualifications to enter a political discussion with world leaders.
James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objective here, but she doesn't h..."
Just a quick reminder from her UN speech: "If not me - who?"
So?
You can make your own platform to speak up about things actually. It may start small, talking in front of your town, or a school, but all must start somewhere. And the more attention you get the bigger platforms you can reach and then who knows? Someone small could be the one to be speaking at the UN next, not just her. Think about all the kids you see on the news speaking about things. If they can do it then anyone can.
Mod
And even if you think that actors shouldn't be playing this kind of role, well, she's far from being the first example of a UN Goodwill Ambassador coming from such background. There's also Angelina Jolie, and most importantly, I am thinking of Audrey Hepburn. I would say they are there because they are people who are concerned about a certain cause and have the platform and following to inspire people. :)
In this sense, I will also say that I believe many people saying 'Emma should do x/y/z' probably do it out of their good intentions and are just excited to see someone they look up to taking their suggestions in fighting for a better world. You'll have to forgive me for playing the devil's advocate here, haha. :-) Also, maybe some of them are already involved in something.
However, you still have a point! Which brings me to shamelessly inserting an ad here, haha - people! There's a thread asking your help in spreading OSS to your local libraries! Now there's something that we can all give a go to! Head there! *whips lash* Now!
PS :D
I assumed that those types of posts were from children, based on some of their spelling. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and paid them no attention. They might be Harry Potter fans who literally have no idea how goodreads or the internet or celebrity works. There must be a way to let them down gently.
Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objective here, but..."
Major political leaders, heads of state, political scientist, political sociologist, good will ambassadors that have dedicated their life's work to causes,world journalist who have dedicated their lived to writing about world issues ....the list goes on. It only gets the public intrested when you make it pop culture though. And really she is just a actress reading a speech somebody else wrote...
How do you know her speech was written by someone else? If you have proof of that, then ok, but if not, you have just done a serious discrimination.
The petition that is on change.org is a troll petition, everyone should just report it to change.
Samanta wrote: "How do you know her speech was written by someone else? If you have proof of that, then ok, but if not, you have just done a serious discrimination."Don't engage James unless you want to have him post 7 miles of the same copypasta he's been placing on every other convo.
Mod
Shaiyan wrote: "You know Elizabeth, majority of the Harry Potter fans wouldn't be considered "kids" anymore. If there is indeed any immature posts of the sorts that you're talking about, then it is necessary to ex..."Thus, "there must be a way to let them down gently".
All of this is to inspire change, not to initiate it unto everyone. More like, "hey this what I am doing, you can join in on the cause if you like" and "these are things I am doing, what are you doing?" etc.
I don't think she is currently leader of sorts(maybe in the future when she decides to), but more of someone who is soul searching and having her fan base join in on it.
Amy wrote: "EXACTLY!!!! Completely agree!! Especially in regards to that petition that's going around. We should be using Emma as an inspiration for us to start a change in our local communities."This petition? https://www.change.org/p/emma-watson-...? You should just report it. If they get enough reports, it will be removed
James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objecti..."
What does her (or anyone else's) acting career have to do with what she has to say? Do we ought to disregard George Carlin as a source for philosophical though, just because he was a comedian (who, mind you, dropped out of high school)? No, we should not. Also, there have been countless politicians (or journalists, or political scientists/sociologists) throughout the history of the world, whose views were detatched from the reality the population sees (mostly ones with right-wing ideas, though there are people in supposedly left-wing parties who show some of this behaviour as well). I myself plan to master in political sciences, but mainly for a shot at a job I might like (not that it's my big dream). What makes an academic more well-informed about (for example) sexism than someone who is actually confronted with it in their daily life? Point being: everyone can be capable of making a valid point on certain issues, gender equality being one of them (mind you, that doesn't mean everyone actually IS). I want to say that it's also worth noting that most political courses at university are mainly about our current state capitalist system, meaning they mainly study the details of what we have today, not so much of other possible systems to have, but I've not attended such a course as of yet, so perhaps I actually might be in a valid position to make that point next year, when I'm (hopefully) at university.
Jing Wen wrote: "Initially when I joined this bookclub, I was happy to see lots of discussions on feminism and it was really refreshing as feminism isn't a widely discussed topic from where I'm from. However lately..."
Well said my friend.
Well said my friend.
Well said Jing and Anna. It is important to be proactive and considerate at the same time. Another thing that I have noticed in these discussions is the expectation of something momentous. Most of the times we can make a difference and promote feminism through our daily actions, such as perhaps by spreading awareness about feminism in our inner circles. All of our actions with such an intent count. Let's start and the platform will find itself.
I agree with this. We should remember that this group was set up not as 'Emma Watson Fan Club', but for the sake of feminism.
Emma Watson has earned herself a platform - a voice, through her acting career. Kudos to her for choosing to use to try and make the world a better place. She should do whatever she wants so far as I'm concerned, no more, no less. I do empathize with those thinking she should do 'this' or 'that' because her celebrity status gives her the power to achieve things that most people can't. Take this group, she hasn't really been that involved in it - no doubt she doesn't actually have the time, but she put her name to it and that's important. Just endorsing a Goodreads group has been a positive thing. It's gathered people, and got them talking about feminism. Surely that's good?
James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objective here, but she doesn't h..."
ALL politicians are are people who know what they're talking about. I'm wondering if you think a WOMAN does not know enough to talk about issues facing WOMEN, who do you think does? I would argue also that Emma is not an actor speaking to the UN, but rather and educated woman who happens also to be an actor.
Luke wrote: "Amy wrote: "EXACTLY!!!! Completely agree!! Especially in regards to that petition that's going around. We should be using Emma as an inspiration for us to start a change in our local communities."..."
Have just done, everyone should. I put it under bullying/ harassment and made sure to tell them why. Because no one person with enough signatures should be able to publicly shame anyone into personally, physically doing something they want them to do.
Sarah wrote: "Luke wrote: "Amy wrote: "EXACTLY!!!! Completely agree!! Especially in regards to that petition that's going around. We should be using Emma as an inspiration for us to start a change in our local c..."I've reported it too. But it doesn't seem to be working.
Honestly? We've all seen Emma's work as an actress since she was 9... it shouldn't matter her career path or qualifications. We live in a post-modern world. Degrees don't matter as much, because we all know the institutions are classist, sexist and racist.As a fellow feminist, all I can say is that I admire the fact she's using her platform for feminism instead of using feminism as a platform. I've seen so many celebrities embracing the movement to sell more and promote themselves, but doing nothing. That's not her case.
And about that petition: The mentality is that she would go to Calais and be abused or worse? And what point would that prove? That some people are bad? That some men, regardless of origin, will abuse if given the chance? We know that already. Nothing will ever make me judge a whole nation for the actions of a few. That's stupid and disgusting.
Don't listen to disgusting people. It's not worth it, really.
Lara wrote: "Honestly? We've all seen Emma's work as an actress since she was 9... it shouldn't matter her career path or qualifications. We live in a post-modern world. Degrees don't matter as much, because we..."I found the bloke on Twitter, it's just a troll petition.
James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objective here, but she doesn't h..."
Are you freaking kidding me? So just because her job is being an actress she can't try and use her influence to change the world and to arise awareness on some topics? By saying this you are implying that only because she is an actress she is not clever enough or enough educated to be a UN ambassador and I think this is madness! I believe she is much more dedicated to her cause than half world leaders (and even more qualified and educated than many of our so-called politicians)...
Sarah wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just being objective here, but..."
Couldn't agee with you more, Sarah... :)
This is exactly why I want a "like" button. I agree 100%! We should do something ourselves. The more people who attempt to exact change, the more change that can be had - especially if we get the right people who are very good at getting the message heard in such a way that inspires the governments of the world to change, or inspires the people underneath those government's rules to want change.
Although most of these people don't mean to oblige Emma to do these things ( they're just proposing stuff ), I totally agree with you!For a lot of people, including myself, Emma is an example we can all relate to, and I think it's our duty to take our own initiatives to support feminism.
I mean, it can't be that Emma need to do everything herself and that we just stand there and support her, we need to do some stuff too and you pointed that already out.
Lets all think about it and about what we can do!
-Simon <3
Mod
Right? In this climate of economic crisis, I feel like we have been told a wrong message - 'Things are hard, so you should be happy to survive! If you got a job, shut up about your interests and dreams and be grateful!' Um, no. I feel so scared when I think of a life without fulfilling goals and/or the means to pursue them.
Mod
Reported it as well. That Izard person is just sad.
Jing Wen wrote: "Initially when I joined this bookclub, I was happy to see lots of discussions on feminism and it was really refreshing as feminism isn't a widely discussed topic from where I'm from. However lately..."Agree with you 100%. I'm personally see Emma like normal person. Because she is human being or I miss something :) I doing this project because I'm pisst of reading and hearing about feminism and gender equality something what is not correct by some lost silly people who mix facts. Or have no idea what is behind this very important subjects. I have enough of whole this cruelty in the world. I'm travel a lot and it is problematic in every country. Health, money , violence etc.
So my plan is to fight with that on my terms. With help or without but I still have to do that or rather I must do that. To show people the true. To try change it. I know it will be long time until everyone will be equal but if we don't start this now this can be takes a ages not years but ages.
Shaiyan wrote: "I believe there is a counter petition also, in case reporting doesn't work. Even though it's troll petition, it did actually get me thinking. Every now and then I'm seeing reports of these refugee..."
Yeah there is a counter petition
Luke wrote: "Here's the counter petition if anyone is interested - https://www.change.org/p/oscar-izard-..."Thank you, signed and shared.
Elena wrote: "Luke wrote: "Here's the counter petition if anyone is interested - https://www.change.org/p/oscar-izard-..."Thank you, signed a..."
It'd be good if we could get 16,000 on this, but if the other have 16,000, anything is possible.
Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United Nations. Just..."
My comment was based on a 25 year old actress who had no previous experience with any kind of political or activist carer in the past being given the Platform to speak to the United Nations. This is because she is a celebrity not because she is qualified or earned any level of notoriety to speak. If you listen to any of her speeches she dose not talk about any real issues or logical actions to take in order to solve them. In fact she stays clear of that. What she does talk is a vague emotional reaction to vague gender relations that can all be cured by feminism...she is not talking about solving problems at hand, but rather just supporting feminism and trying to clear feminism name from all the bad press it has received, much,if not all well deserved too. My issue is that speaking to world leaders should be based on solving real problems and expressing truths, not about promoting movements. Also I have a huge issue with her siting on a panel and telling men how to be better men. Can you Imagine a actor let's say, Shane penn, siting on a panel addressing women telling them how to be better women and what they could do to help men and all of humanity ? I think people would have a problem with that.
James wrote: "Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the United N..."
there is so much wrong about this its not even worth it.
Sarah wrote: "James wrote: "Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to ..."No please I would very much appreciate you letting me know if I made a area in fact or judgement. What is it that you find wrong? It is a individual critical view but it is looking at it logically. And my criticism has nothing to do with her being a women as you implied earlier. Nor dose it have to do with her speaking her mind or raising awareness, which I don't think she dose. I am putting it simply, she dose not have the experience or education to be given that kind of platform, not when there are so many others who do. SHe is acting as more of a face for UNwomen ,feminist group, to promote feminism, or more to the point have others promote feminism. What real issues has she addressed? And what real insight has she given? other then a vague scapegoat look at what men need to do and how others should be feminist? Sorry if I'm being blunt with these comments but I do feel I'm being honest.
James wrote: "Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be a actress that speaks to the
United N..."
She's not trying to tell dudes how to be better dudes, she's trying empower 3rd world country chicks and show them that dudes support them, that they don't have to submit. Her movement is a touchy feely thing, it's not an army thing - that's why you don't understand the execution of their plans.
I can't tell this story enough but I sat there for 2 hours watching Emma's Speech with workers from un women because they were trying to explain to me what HeForShe was but it wasn't sinking in. When they told me she was actually addressing men I was in shock and straight up asked "why is she talking to dudes as if they're a bunch of chicks?"
Again, it's a touchy feely thing where it makes them feel empowered and encouraged - just let them have that peacefully. They actually feel something when she's talking, like the look on their faces baffled me but you know, it's not hurting anyone so I don't see the harm.
United N..."
She's not trying to tell dudes how to be better dudes, she's trying empower 3rd world country chicks and show them that dudes support them, that they don't have to submit. Her movement is a touchy feely thing, it's not an army thing - that's why you don't understand the execution of their plans.
I can't tell this story enough but I sat there for 2 hours watching Emma's Speech with workers from un women because they were trying to explain to me what HeForShe was but it wasn't sinking in. When they told me she was actually addressing men I was in shock and straight up asked "why is she talking to dudes as if they're a bunch of chicks?"
Again, it's a touchy feely thing where it makes them feel empowered and encouraged - just let them have that peacefully. They actually feel something when she's talking, like the look on their faces baffled me but you know, it's not hurting anyone so I don't see the harm.
first off you thinking she doesn't raise awareness is definitely a personal opinion, however I would argue that the simple fact that she is as well known as she is and is advocating for this is definitely helping. second, if you feel feminism deserves the bad rap it has why are you here? third, until you have been a minority you have absolutely no right to compare flipping the tables and putting the shoe on the other foot to the problems faced by the people fighting the battle. All in all I think a board of men telling woman how to be better woman would go over about as well as a board of whites telling blacks how to be better blacks. because the connotation of that is the fact that we are fighting against the people we are already expected to be, so if you are telling us how to better be that person you are expecting.... you're not getting it. and people SHOULD have a problem with that.
Not to be a douche but to the dude "feminists" in this group. You are aware that female brains are not attracted to that right? They're not attracted to male feminists because it's weak. They do want to be your friend though so I guess that's a plus, but you'd basically be treated like a gay dude - forever friend zoned.
Like the stuff I say might make them think "jerk" and they might kind of hate it but they're also kind of turned on. Don't lie ladies, don't lie, you know it's true *ahem*
I'm not saying run around and be a jerk, because I'm not really that bad but, I think they're turned on by people who aren't afraid to be themselves and who won't conform into some kind of ideal. If you think that you're going to get close to Watson by becoming a male feminist, then you're deluded because out of ALL the chick types out there, THAT'S THE LAST TYPE of chick who'd be turned on by a male feminist.
Girls like Watson are attracted to traits like extroverted, mischievous, charismatic, rebellious,the leader of the pack - the one that dudes listen to. Now do dudes listen to male feminists?Ask yourself, do any of your exes have the same personality traits as Watson (introverted, intelligent, bookish, control freak, entitled, aggressive)? You know what type of chick wants you based on history.
Also women like Watson are not easy to handle in a relationship. And i'm not talking about her fame and schedule and stuff, I'm talking about personality traits - clingy with very high expectations. They have issues telling people how they feel so you can bet your bottom dollar the mind games and button pushing will be flying wild.
Like the stuff I say might make them think "jerk" and they might kind of hate it but they're also kind of turned on. Don't lie ladies, don't lie, you know it's true *ahem*
I'm not saying run around and be a jerk, because I'm not really that bad but, I think they're turned on by people who aren't afraid to be themselves and who won't conform into some kind of ideal. If you think that you're going to get close to Watson by becoming a male feminist, then you're deluded because out of ALL the chick types out there, THAT'S THE LAST TYPE of chick who'd be turned on by a male feminist.
Girls like Watson are attracted to traits like extroverted, mischievous, charismatic, rebellious,the leader of the pack - the one that dudes listen to. Now do dudes listen to male feminists?Ask yourself, do any of your exes have the same personality traits as Watson (introverted, intelligent, bookish, control freak, entitled, aggressive)? You know what type of chick wants you based on history.
Also women like Watson are not easy to handle in a relationship. And i'm not talking about her fame and schedule and stuff, I'm talking about personality traits - clingy with very high expectations. They have issues telling people how they feel so you can bet your bottom dollar the mind games and button pushing will be flying wild.
Mod
I don't even know where to start from. I guess that I can do it from the very beginning. Women / young girls feel attracted towards people because of a combination of traits, just like pretty much everybody out there does. If we're talking straight women, then apply this to men. For some, feminism will be an important deal, for some others, not so much. As long as they're respected as equals, they probably won't even think much about that, which is fine, BTW. However, where did you read that male feminists are weak? Where did you read that women would turn male feminists down because blergh, so weak? I don't want to get too personal here, but that's wrong.
And while we're at it, please do not make assumptions for other members of the group, be them Emma or any of us regular members. It's not fair. 'Clingy and high maintenance', this is so derogatory.
I must also insist, even at the risk of being obnoxious, that you ditch the 'chicks' and 'dudes' languages. You are an English major, I am a graduate in Translation and Interpreting Studies. We both know words matter.
Please don't take this personally - for the sake of the forum, we must be firm sometimes. :)
Mod
Ana wrote: "Ty, when I said 'I'm sure you have plenty of interesting thoughts to share with this group', well, this is not what I was thinking of.
I don't even know where to start from. I guess that I can do i..."
I didn't read the whole women turning down male feminist thing, you can see it. Also I wasn't referring to ALL women, it depends on the TYPE. I meant Emma as a type would turn down a male feminist - it's the truth. Strong women or alpha females want to deal with those who can handle them. The only type of female that date those male feminist types are bullying types where they just want someone to push around, they don't want a relationship that's equal.
I rarely take things personally btw lol.
Oh and you are aware that a lot of the male feminist in this group is under the delusion it'll get them laid right? It's not because they care about women's rights and all I was doing was pointing out that Emma knows that. So it scares off the fakes. If they're truly about equal rights, they won't be shaken. See? I'm helping
I don't even know where to start from. I guess that I can do i..."
I didn't read the whole women turning down male feminist thing, you can see it. Also I wasn't referring to ALL women, it depends on the TYPE. I meant Emma as a type would turn down a male feminist - it's the truth. Strong women or alpha females want to deal with those who can handle them. The only type of female that date those male feminist types are bullying types where they just want someone to push around, they don't want a relationship that's equal.
I rarely take things personally btw lol.
Oh and you are aware that a lot of the male feminist in this group is under the delusion it'll get them laid right? It's not because they care about women's rights and all I was doing was pointing out that Emma knows that. So it scares off the fakes. If they're truly about equal rights, they won't be shaken. See? I'm helping
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Why must we all depend on Emma? Emma isn't some supernatural almighty being that grants wishes on a whim. She is human like all of us. She could be like any other famous people who lives in luxury but instead, she chooses to do something for the greater good (which I really respect all her effort). But that doesn't mean we can all take her for granted.
If you really think there is an issue in your local community, why don't you stand up for it? Be a leader and not a follower. Be like Agnes who started a project and is actively working to promote feminism and gender equality. Everyone has an idea of what should be done. But only the people who are willing to sweat it out can change the world.
PS. Those are my personal opinions. Sorry for ranting but I felt it should have been said earlier. Cheers.