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Bulletin Board > Is a Book Title Important?

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message 1: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments When it comes to covers as authors we want to make them as detailed as possible so we grab a person's attention. Also some of us tend to judge a book by its cover.

But what about the title of books? Does a Title need to be original and as clever as possible like the cover to which it sits on? Do we as readers judge a book based on a Title as well?

Personally I believe a title needs to be well thought, catchy and of course be an idea of what the basis of the story is about in some way. Do you ever find yourself taken by a books cover only to be taken back by its boring or cliche title? I ask these questions in similarity to judging a book by its cover and to ask the simple question, exactly how important is a books title?


message 2: by P.I. (new)

P.I. (thewordslinger) | 124 comments It's the second most important thing ON your book cover! Also it should be an "action" word/words to make it interesting especially if the book is crime or suspense. "Dead Ringer" to steal a film title, was the great title of the film with the same name and star Betty Davis and it pretty much both explained the story and stimulated interest as to how it all happened and why. I wish I could be good at titles, but I've lost the knack for it. But now you know. JMHO.


message 3: by Mimi (last edited Jan 24, 2016 12:16AM) (new)

Mimi Marten | 61 comments I think title is as important as the cover....

Don't save money on editor and designer, and put some energy, love and thinking into the title. :-))


message 4: by Aaron (new)

Aaron (maplemuffyn) | 5 comments Titles do matter. There's just something pick-me-up worthy about books with titles that either draw your emotions or roll of the tongue. Most people will only check out the plot side after the cover or the title have done their job.


message 5: by Mimi (new)

Mimi Marten | 61 comments J. Aaron wrote: "Titles do matter. There's just something pick-me-up worthy about books with titles that either draw your emotions or roll of the tongue. Most people will only check out the plot side after the cove..."

AMEN!!!....:-)))


message 6: by Victoria (new)

Victoria Zigler (toriz) | 2898 comments Titles make just as important of a first impression as your cover art.

In fact, even more so to someone like me. I can't just look at the cover of a book, so my first impression of your book is always the title.


message 7: by Zippergirl (last edited Jan 25, 2016 11:32AM) (new)

Zippergirl So many titles are meaningless or misleading, or have been used over and over again. When I am looking thru my Kindle carousel for the next book to read it's the covers that I rely on to help me choose.

And when I go thru all the books I've bought at Amazon I recognize the ones I've already read by the cover art, unless I have made a real effort to remember an author's name. I'm sure there are many books I haven't added to my Read list because the cover has been changed over the years and I don't know it anymore. (It's like an old friend with a facelift.)


message 8: by Robert (new)

Robert Lampros | 37 comments Good question. I think titles can be important for different reasons. It should either be distinct sounding and give a vivid impression, or it should somehow encompass the story and draw its meaning from that. My first book is titled Fits of Tranquility, which is vivid. My new book has a title that sounds boring, Eleven Floors, but it's actually a great story and the title is right for it. 1984, The Trial, The Bell Jar, Franny and Zooey, those are all boring sounding titles for awesome books.


message 9: by K.P. (new)

K.P. Merriweather (kp_merriweather) | 276 comments I always have a hard time with unique titles. the ones I come up with are already esoteric enough but too common.... I drive myself nuts trying to come up with something. by the time it hits print I still hadn't thought of anything and it's shipped with the slightly better than wip title. >_> if I had to wait on inspiration to hit me for a book title my novels would be in the wait bin for 20 more years....


message 10: by Mary (new)

Mary Hogan | 122 comments Justin wrote: "When it comes to covers as authors we want to make them as detailed as possible so we grab a person's attention. Also some of us tend to judge a book by its cover.

But what about the title of book..."


A good title is EVERYTHING! It can make or break a book, in my humble opinion. I've published 9 novels and only 1 came out with the original title I gave it. The others were changed by my editor--with my input--at the request of the sales department. The latest scoop: for mainstream fiction, publishers want a PERSON in the title. Examples: The Girl on the Train, The Aviator's Wife, My Name is Lucy Barton, and the ever popular, Two Sisters. :)


message 11: by James (last edited Jan 26, 2016 07:33PM) (new)

James (jameshalat) | 88 comments I think titles, like covers, are important to a point. They can pique curiosity to get someone to take a look at your book. But once the the book is open, neither mean anything anymore. I can't count how many "clever" titles or "eye-catching" covers got me to open a book in a bookstore or on Kindle, only to stop reading halfway down the first page, because the writing lacked that certain something to keep me interested. I suspect that quality promotion and word of mouth trump cover and title every time.


message 12: by James (new)

James (jameshalat) | 88 comments Lyn wrote: "Yes, but James, at least you opened the book. That's what it's all about, is it not?
Then, of course, it's up to the writer and the writing and the STORY to keep you engaged."


That's my point. I don't think that's what it's all about. I think these things are far less important than they are given weight. I think Amazon featured books (what I would consider quality promotion) get far more looks than pretty book covers with clever titles buried on the site. You can be as clever and design conscious as you want, but if the book is not front of people for them to look at, it doesn't mean much.


message 13: by Julie (new)

Julie Anderson | 51 comments Yes, a book title is important. Just as a book's cover and blurb are important. It attracts readers. I changed the title of my soon to be published book recently, because my old title didn't tell the reader what sort of book it was. I did some research and wrote some blog pieces about doing this, together with some researched facts and figures about book titles and asked readers of my blog to vote. You can find the articles at http://www.thestorybazaar.com/entitle... and http://www.thestorybazaar.com/vote-fo... and http://www.thestorybazaar.com/reconqu...


message 14: by Julie (new)

Julie Anderson | 51 comments Oops.. it came out top in the poll. I guess there's no sure fire way of pleasing every one. Let's hope it means something to others.
Julie


message 15: by Julie (new)

Julie Anderson | 51 comments Lyn wrote: "Julie wrote: "Yes, a book title is important. Just as a book's cover and blurb are important. It attracts readers. I changed the title of my soon to be published book recently, because my old title..."

Lyn,
Which title did you prefer?
Julie


message 16: by Julie (new)

Julie Anderson | 51 comments Lyn wrote: "Julie wrote: "Lyn wrote: "Julie wrote: "Yes, a book title is important. Just as a book's cover and blurb are important. It attracts readers. I changed the title of my soon to be published book rece..."
Yes, I liked that one too. But I also liked No Place of Safety. It's difficult.
J


message 17: by Al (last edited Jan 28, 2016 02:10PM) (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments Julie wrote: "Yes, a book title is important. Just as a book's cover and blurb are important. It attracts readers. I changed the title of my soon to be published book recently, because my old title didn't tell t..."

I'll use my own struggles as an illustration of how not to pick a title, followed by one that worked out (at least for me):

I had a similar problem with one of my books. I write SciFi, so the title had to reflect that. I wrote it with a working title of Phoenix which suffered from several problems, the two biggest being that 1. it was too general and 2. Everyone and his grandma had written a book with that title or variations.

Soooo, I published it as, The Eighth Day. Well, that's kinda Sci Fi and it reflected the book's post-disaster theme, but it also made it sound like it might be a preachy Christian story. Sales were less than stellar.

Sooooo, I made a BIG mistake and asked the members of my writer's workshop (Science Fiction Novelists http://sfnovelist.com/) for ideas. They came up with several ideas and we finally settled on Children of Destruction. Sales picked up, but I still don't like the title. That's what you get for getting a committee to make your decisions for you.

For my latest, I decided to "roll my own" and I think that Last Train from Earth pretty well encapsulates the story, tells the shopper that it's SciFi, and isn't used by anyone else. And sales were better than "Children"s numbers.


message 18: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Lyn wrote: "I have always said that writing is a solitary sport. The corollary of that - Writing is not a team sport. "

Good one. Titles are important in what they don't imply - if you title your historical non-fiction as 'Lord Danther's Revenge,' and it isn't a Romance, you are going to attract readers you will disappoint.

My debut novel started out with the working title of 'Resurrection!' because the main character basically comes back to life after many bad things happen, but there are way too many SF books with that as a title or subtitle, and it signals the wrong kind of story.

From there it went to 'Children of Pride,' a phrase from the Bible that captures the story, and finally ended up at Pride's Children because that could be interpreted as either Children of Prides or Children of The Pride (referencing lions), and both are contained in the book's theme.

Many readers of course won't identify the phrase, but in the last chapter epigraphs, I quote the original biblical source (The Book of Job in the Old Testament), and if you come on it just right, people have told me, you get a spine-tingling feeling that you now know what the book's title means. And I like that effect.

And Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins. Also relevant.

Of course, from the time I created the title that way (and checked it on Amazon), to the time when I finally published (almost ten years later), things had changed: I now found Pride's Children listed as the title of a novel of two married gay men adopting two children (which makes sense).

Since we're different enough in every way, I kept my title. But it did make me chuckle.


message 19: by Lana (new)

Lana Kortchik Titles are definitely important as they are what the readers notice first, as soon as they see your book. Having said that, if you are publishing your book with a traditional publisher or even a small press, chances are they will change the title to something they deem appropriate. My publisher renamed my book shortly before it was published. I was lucky I guess because I actually preferred their title to my own.


message 20: by Alicia (last edited Jan 28, 2016 04:50PM) (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Lyn wrote: "Alicia, I wonder why you would hold the biblical source until the end. Might it not fit wonderfully well to introduce Chapter 1? And then the epigraph might guide the reader into the theme? ..."

An excellent thought - except the epigraph really doesn't make sense until you get close to the end, so a reader would have to remember it a long time. There are other quotations from the Book of Job before that last one, other biblical ones, poetry, news sources...

Plus I have a very specific and short (145 words) prologue, and most readers are still under the influence of that, and almost don't see the epigraphs in Chapter 1.

Readers who like the book usually like my epigraphs - they're actually a part of the story: the commentary of the outside world on what the story is (often getting is quite wrong). Other people don't like epigraphs. But this is my book, they belong there, and I figured something that was that controversial (I posted live as I wrote the final version, on my blog and Wattpad) had value, so they stay.

MY favorite books - Dune, Dorothy Sayers mysteries - have epigraphs, though of a different kind. Herbert's are backstory, slipped in easily as quotations from 'references' he invented; Sayers' are usually classical and poetry.

I'm not going to be able to write that many books (late starter) - I'm one of those very slow writers - so I try to put in what I want to read later, when I'm in the nursing home.

By the way, the books page here has a preview sample of the first three chapters, so you can see for yourself what you think of what I did.


message 21: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Lana wrote: "Titles are definitely important as they are what the readers notice first, as soon as they see your book. Having said that, if you are publishing your book with a traditional publisher or even a sm..."

I'm glad you liked the title they picked for your book. Phew!

Titles are so short - it's like the most extreme form of advertising - and not every reader will get what you're trying to convey. But it is good that authors think about them.

I still remember reading that 'Gone With the Wind' was originally titled 'Tomorrow is Another Day.' Eek!


message 22: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments My publisher, FTL, pretty much leaves my titles alone (which might not be a good thing [grin]). I even enjoy a lot of leeway in designing cover art. My "Children" cover came from Dan Saunders (at my request) and the "Last Train" cover came from Duncan Long, who was recommended to me by Al Kalar (a freelance editor I know from my evil past).


message 23: by Al (last edited Jan 28, 2016 04:56PM) (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments Oh! here are the covers, in case you're curious (kinda tiny when you use Goodreads' version):


Children of Destruction by Al Philipson
Last Train from Earth by Al Philipson


message 24: by Jim (last edited Jan 28, 2016 05:00PM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1227 comments A book cover utilizes the same marketing technique as do posters and billboards - A picture or symbol to attract the potential consumer's eye, along with a clever word or brief phrase to further stir their curiosity.


message 25: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Just a suggestion here, but you may want to work with your cover designers a bit in the future - the two thumbnails above are not legible at that size (possibly what you posted above are low resolution images?).

It is helpful to be able to at least read the title, and maybe see a bit of the image. Amazon uses the thumbnails in lists and in also-boughts.

Here's mine as an example. My cover mentor insisted I make things legible at that size (she didn't care about my name - I'm an unknown beginner).

PRIDE'S CHILDREN PURGATORY (Book 1 of the Trilogy) by Alicia Butcher Ehrhardt


message 26: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments How about this (normal thumbnail size)?




message 27: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Al wrote: "How about this (normal thumbnail size)?"

Sorry. I check it both on my giant TV monitor and my MacBook w/retina display, and I can't see the title on either, and only the capitals on your name on the left one. I can't make out the image on the left (there's a man, and two women...). The image of the one on the right looks like a tapeworm.

I'm sure I'm not the best one to say, and it really isn't my business to point this stuff out, but I can't read your covers. I'm sure they're lovely at a bigger size.


message 28: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments Funny, I can read them just fine on my ancient, small monitor.


message 29: by Zee (new)

Zee Monodee (zee_monodee) | 154 comments Jumping in late... I think titles are very important, because it already from the first glance gives you what the story is about and also the tone and feel of the story.
I write mainly contemporary romance and many of the 'tropes' I use can be termed category-type, and it always struck me that category books, whether they be from Harlequin, Entangled, and lately Tule Publishing, have very explicit titles even if they can sound cliché or cheesy (Sheikh's Revenge Bride or something like that).
So it got me thinking. A lot of my books are with an epublisher right now, and I'm planning to get my rights back and then self-publish them, and I'm thinking of changing the titles on some of them. For example, Calling Home is a category-style story about a rational-type forensic pathologist who suddenly finds herself the guardian of a 12 yr old girl and there's this cute doctor next door who helps her out and makes her see what loving and living are truly about. I titled it Calling Home because that's what the heroine was doing, and since they're both doctors, it was a play on the fact that doctors make house calls. But now I think it isn't really working for the story, and I'm thinking of re-titling it 'The Doctor's Orders For Love' or something along those lines, that will reflect the category-style trope and feel.
So all in all, it's pretty much a hit and miss game, especially when you're indie :)


message 30: by Zee (new)

Zee Monodee (zee_monodee) | 154 comments Al wrote: "Funny, I can read them just fine on my ancient, small monitor."

The one on the left, I can't make out the title at first glance even in the 'big' image, and the cover is also very crowded. It might display better if your title were bigger and the red gets lost in the backdrop. Maybe with a harder drop shadow under the title made bigger, it would stand out more (btw, I am also a cover designer)


message 31: by K.P. (new)

K.P. Merriweather (kp_merriweather) | 276 comments @zee. the doctor's orders for love sounds like a cute romance. reminds me of those old Harlequin books I read way back in the day. (I mainly had 70s 89s and early 80s titles to work with). I'd definitely pick it up : 3


message 32: by Zee (new)

Zee Monodee (zee_monodee) | 154 comments K.P. wrote: "@zee. the doctor's orders for love sounds like a cute romance. reminds me of those old Harlequin books I read way back in the day. (I mainly had 70s 89s and early 80s titles to work with). I'd defi..."

Thanks, K.P! :) It is actually a cute romance, rather light in tone, a romantic comedy, in short.


message 33: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments Both covers were created by top artists in the SciFi cover field. I may have had too much input into the first one and I agree that it's too "busy".

The space "ship" is a "train" with "cars" attached to the "engine". Not my design, but I will admit the title can be blamed on me. Here it is in a larger size:

[image error]


message 34: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments Now, since this thread is about titles, we can see that this title only looks good in a larger size. I was never able to make it "pop" because I got hung up on the metallic look.

BTW, the "balance" looks fine to me. I don't see the problem. Will the average shopper see a problem (other than the contrast problem with the title)?


message 35: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments Are you really plugging and talking up your own cover? Its irrelevant to this thread as the thread is about whether or not titles are important, not a shameless way for you to post a cover of your book to get feedback.


message 36: by Mimi (new)

Mimi Marten | 61 comments Al wrote: "Both covers were created by top artists in the SciFi cover field. I may have had too much input into the first one and I agree that it's too "busy".

The space "ship" is a "train" with "cars" attac..."


Due to the colors, maybe try to switch the 'silver' title with your 'white' name. Title on the bottom may not be common, but it has been done. It will take up more of the empty black area as well.

I'm a visual person /prior interior designer/, I would have to see it. But from what I can tell, your white name would still be visible and match the clouds. :-))


message 37: by Mimi (new)

Mimi Marten | 61 comments Justin wrote: "Are you really plugging and talking up your own cover? Its irrelevant to this thread as the thread is about whether or not titles are important, not a shameless way for you to post a cover of your ..."

Haha, I didn't even think of it. :-))
Maybe cut him some slack, he needed help. :-))


message 38: by Zippergirl (new)

Zippergirl Another designer chiming in, Al. You have to really want advice. lol

One of the most difficult things for a designer to deal with is . . . author/customer input beyond the very basics. The designer designs, and when the client wants this or that, it oftens ends up in a subpar end result.

I thought the first book was about an LDS polygamist cult, until I noticed the fire-breathing dragon.

The other works for me, love the title and the space ship, but the ship needs to be moved closer to the planet and the book title brought down into the black. That should be easy to do.

Is this a series? I'm guessing not based on the two covers.

Hugs
Zip


message 39: by Al (last edited Jan 29, 2016 10:44AM) (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments DJ Zippergirl wrote: "Another designer chiming in, Al. You have to really want advice. lol

Is this a series? I'm guessing not based on the two covers...."


The second book is part of a series. The first is stand-alone. I'll try the title/author swap suggested by Mimi to see if it works.

This thread is about title and we've gotten sidetracked with artwork, but 1. seeing the title is important if the title is important 2. The title IS important.
-------------------------------------------
Side comment/question: the title should be brief????
How about tag lines on the cover???


message 40: by K.D. (new)

K.D. McQuain (kd_mcquain) | 97 comments I know that as an author I agonized over both the cover art and the title. In the end I found that the simplest option seemed to work better than all the clever wordplay I was trying.


message 41: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Al wrote: "seeing the title is important if the title is important..."

I like your title - Last Train from Earth is a great title. The font is appropriately SF.

I just can't see it until the cover gets blown up to a lot larger than thumbnail size.

There are many ways to make text stand out from background - a subtle, one-color cloud around the letters can help. Feathered to it is almost solid next to the letters, and then fading away to join the background a few pixels away.

As far as hijacking a thread, not a problem for me - but you could have just made it about what you wanted - feedback - from the beginning. If people don't like what you write, they write back - or just don't participate. What's so hard about that?


message 42: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments I started out discussing title and used my own experience as an example. It got kinda sidetracked (sheepish grin). I especially wanted to stress that you take risks when you get it done by a committee (all the jokes about committees are true).

I made some changes in the title's position (as suggested) and lightened it up a bit and it works better (THANKS everyone!). I'll send it to my publisher for their consideration.

I like Lyn's discussion on titles. I have a 4-word limit, but it's kinda loose. The next book in the series will be "God's Assassin" (which someone stole a year or so back after I was foolish enough to let it out). Now, that's the shortest title I've ever come up with outside of "Phoenix" (which was doomed from the beginning).

Lesson: Don't be like Al and blab your title before you're ready to promote.


message 43: by Al (new)

Al Philipson (printersdevil) | 88 comments Lyn wrote: "Al, I thoroughly enjoy your sense ond expression of humour."
Thanks. I learned it at my mother's knee -- or some other old joint. (her joke, not mine).


message 44: by Vincent, Group Founder (new)

Vincent Lowry (vlowry) | 1126 comments Mod
Denise wrote: "Titles are important, and something I’m struggling with regarding my current WIP. The title has to have some magnetism. A simple “Daisy Falls in Love” doesn’t do it for me. Sure, it might capture t..."

"Falling Daisy"
With a unique cover of daisies in the background: http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thum...

But who knows, haha. Just the photographer in me tossing an idea out. :)


message 45: by D.B. (new)

D.B. Woodling | 77 comments A simple, albeit unforgettable, book title is as essential to a novel's success as a stunning book cover. As an author, I nearly always find the title is the initial inspiration for the book and the glue that holds it all together.


message 46: by Dwayne (new)

Dwayne Fry | 349 comments Titles are indeed important. It would be nice to just call all my dumb books, A Dumb Book. But, if they all had the same names, readers might accidentally suffer one of my stupid books twice.


message 47: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Titles don't necessarily come first - a working title that is somewhere in the vicinity of what you want is good enough to get started. Then be on the lookout for a phrase that comes out of nowhere, or one that can be twisted (like the Daisy title, above).


message 48: by K.P. (new)

K.P. Merriweather (kp_merriweather) | 276 comments @ zee supposed to be 70 80 and early 90s gah phone tripping


message 49: by Zee (new)

Zee Monodee (zee_monodee) | 154 comments K.P. wrote: "@ zee supposed to be 70 80 and early 90s gah phone tripping"

LOL!


message 50: by Theresa (new)

Theresa (theresa99) | 535 comments Lyn wrote: "Yes, all my titles come during or after the first draft...."

Titles are difficult for me to come up with at times. They almost always come after a 1st draft for me as well. Some of my works do not have a title yet, and its been a few years since I wrote them. I think a title should be fairly short and catchy, but I'm not always good at it. LoL.


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