Anyone interested in a buddy read for Faber's The Crimson Petal & the White?

[Colleen]

I've had it on my shelf for far too long but it's a thick one so it would be nice to have someone to go through it with.

[RachelvlehcaR]

Yes, I have been meaning to read this for a while (years). I've owned this for years. How would you like to break it down?

[Colleen]

It's a fairly long book so I probably don't want to go plow through it too quickly. Maybe a week for each part? I'm flexible, though, if you have something else in mind.

[Amanda]

I would like to read this too. Can I join in too?

[Colleen]

Yes, of course, the more the merrier!!

[RachelvlehcaR]

Okay, I have the book, it's also on Kindle unlimited.

[RachelvlehcaR]

When shall we start?

[Amanda]

I'll fit in with when you want to start. A Part by per week sounds good.

[Colleen]

How about starting at the beginning of Feb? We'd start Part 1 on Feb 1, Part 2 on Feb 8, etc.

[RachelvlehcaR]

Okay sounds good. :)

[Amanda]

Sounds good to me too. Looking forward to it!

[Colleen]

Well, I finished the first part last night. The second person narrative was distracting initially but now that it's not coming up as much, I'm finding myself waiting for the "you" references now. I'm interested to see where the story goes, I really found it started to pick up once William was introduced.

[Amanda]

I'm going to start reading tonight. I'll let you know what I think when I've finished Part 1.

[RachelvlehcaR]

I will pick it up again and post if not today than tomorrow.

[RachelvlehcaR]

When I opened up the book, I saw I was on page 95. So I re-read the beginning of the book to have a fresh beginning of the story.

Part 1
Chapter 1
(view spoiler)[
The adventure of Caroline.

I like how the story starts off like a tour guide to our story going through the streets of our cast of members in the book. Faber does a great job of creating our time travel back to another time with the cobblestone ground, where it’s cold, dark, and not really welcoming. I really like that idea of making connections and having to build our way to the main characters because it’s like a foreshadowing of the entire book in how Sugar makes her way to the top.

It’s kind of funny that in Church Lane there more prostitutes living there than anyone other person. One of my favorite quotes from chapter one is, “Do-gooders can do no good here, and are sent on their way with-despair in their hearts and shit on their shoes.” I think that pretty much sums it up, lol.

Another fun quote is, “You come from a world where darkness is swept aside at the snap of a switch, but that is not the only balance of power that life allows. Much shakier bargains are possible.” I’m so happy I didn’t live during that period of time—harsh world, very harsh world to be in. Also, to be a female in this story would be a nightmare. Caroline just has it rough to be married, widowed, lose a child and then to find herself plunging herself with that mixture! The first time I read that I thought wow, the women had to do that. We are so lucky to have modern day birth control. Faber is amazing at these vivid details to put you into his books. I felt like I was in there watching all this happening. It’s wonderful when you have an author that is so talented to make you feel like you are witnessing all of this.
(hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

Part 1
Chapter 2
(view spoiler)[
More adventure of Caroline to Sugar

I love the details of the shops being opening and everyone being a busy little bee to their job. I can just imagine the life of it all and the buzz in the air, the smog, and different sounds and smells.

It’s nice to see that Caroline is one of the more respectable girls of the night. It’s just so sad about her child and husband. This part was so sad to read about the reason why she doesn’t save money anymore, “All sense of purpose, of responsibility, indeed of any imaginable future, were removed from her by the deaths of her husband and child.” I suppose that happened too many of the women. At least she had some to terms with it and is happy in her freedom and not under an abusive husband like so many others in this story.

Sugar’s description is very interesting—tall, stick-thin, flat-chested, extremely bony, gloved big hands that have something wrong with them, odd face, golden-orange hair, extremely pale, and dry lips. She doesn’t seem very attractive a lot. It’s good that she had good conversation with the men and never says no to them. I think that might be why she is so popular with them. She will do anything for them but then holds herself high like a lady. Kind of like the princess by day and prostitute at night. It’s crazy to think she is only 19 and started turning tricks when she was 13.

I think Sugar was really on to something when she was talking to Caroline about doing tricking on the good side of town and she should keep up with it. How the men get upset when they realize she is from the old part of the city, that they are more upset when they realized they too are just as low and all have seen. That it hurt their pride to see the truth that they are on equal levels.

Sugar is really different from the rest of the women in her trade. She wants more and has pushed herself to elevate her style, education, and have their kind of class to her. In that way she has grown so much more than her friend Caroline and can’t really tell her what’s on her mind because it would be over Caroline’s head. Still, she is very respectable to her friends and those around her.

It’s so sad to see her walk past the child knowing that child on the street is going to die or have a horrible life. I’m so glad that we’ve come a long way in women and children’s rights.

(hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

Part 1
Chapter 3
(view spoiler)[
Following William Rackham

William is by far very frugal but I understand why. Still, it’s kind of funny that he is so clueless in why Clara had that look of disgust on her face and his wife has that same look too. He thinks its pain and a woman thing—just totally clueless. It’s also really funny Clara bought herself stuff and hid it between her butt checks. He just noticed she was walking different. Good for her! I liked that bit of humor.

William’s haircut! Bad haircuts are so humbling.

It’s going to be interesting to see how the connection with Sugar and William will blossom. I’m assuming they become more than lovers or maybe he introduces someone to her that she goes up in ranks. Either way at the end of last chapter and the beginning of this one the narrator told us he is kind of big in the book and scheme of things.
(hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

Colleen wrote: "Well, I finished the first part last night. The second person narrative was distracting initially but now that it's not coming up as much, I'm finding myself waiting for the "you" references now. I..."

LOL, I liked the narrative. It was like we were getting our own tour guide and I wait for him/her to reappear but it's very far and few now.

I've finished Part 1 of the book. I'm really enjoying it. I will post more tomorrow about chapters 4-6. Not as in detailed since I didn't stop between the chapters. I stopped reading to watch a movie, then went back to it later and zipped through the chapters. I'm looking forward to Part 2 of the book.

[Amanda]

Finished Part 1. Enjoying it so far. The 'you' did bother me too but luckily it seems to not appear so much. I loved the trip into town with the 2 girls. It was beautifully described and it was as if you were there too. William seems an interesting character. I wonder what he will bring to the rest of the story. As for Sugar, I like her character. At the end of Part 1 you see what she really thinks.

[RachelvlehcaR]

The trip to town with Caroline and Sugar was really nice. It was an eye opener that Sugar is respectful and can adapt to people she feels is lower and higher than her in statue. It helps that she is self-educated, reads a lot, writes, and keeps up to date. This for sure will help her when she is going to do through the social economical statuses and classes. I'm curious to see how she will adapt to it and if people will hold a prejudice towards her.

William is an interesting and important character. I wonder how often he will visit her before she gets elevated.

It's so odd to think during this time period this is the height of female hysteria and when it was acceptable for men to seek out mistresses but yet never touch their wives. Then they had to go to the doctor's office to schedule a finger session, welcome to the invention of the first vibrator by a doctor because he was tired of manually taking care of the women for female hysteria. I think Clara put it best that the Doctor is making his wife sick. It was so true, It reminds me of The Yellow Wallpaper and Other Stories, poor Agnes. I think Faber did a great job of letting us visit his characters in that kind of a Victorian setting.

I really like Sugar. Great things will come from her. She has ambition and I enjoy reading a strong female character that doesn't have to be psychically strong but mentally and more intelligent than the men around her.

I've read this first Part of the story before, many years ago when it first came out. I didn't get too much further. I think life got in the way and that's why I stopped. It's one of those moments when reading, you say oh yeah, I remember that now. That's how I felt through it and especially when she went to sleep on the urine soaked bed.

[RachelvlehcaR]

If I read a chapter a day, it will get me to the third part by the end of the week. I will read chapter 7 today.

[RachelvlehcaR]

I finished Chapter 7.

(view spoiler)[I wonder why Agnes is so weak? Clara thinks it's the doctor's meds but maybe it's like anemia or something? It's kind of interesting that she wanted to have breakfast with William, after he was with Sugar. I know she doesn't know about it but it's like that sometimes. Things coming together that make you have to choose what path you want to go down. I find it so sad the William takes no part in his daughter's life. Poor Sophie. (hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

Chapter 8 is pretty long but it also has lots of switching back and forth between Agnes and William. I didn't get confused or lost but I really like it when authors make it clear when they switch back and forth. There is a lot of it. Poor Agnes, I just feel so bad for her.

Also our narrator returns.

[Colleen]

I haven't gotten through Part 2 yet, I had a library book to finish but I'm going to throw myself into it shortly!

[RachelvlehcaR]

Not a problem Colleen. I just finished the book. It's such a wonderful book.

[Amanda]

Well done Rachel on finishing the book! I'm finishing Part 2. I'll still read a part a week as I have quite a few books on the go.

[RachelvlehcaR]

No problem. I love this book. It has so many different elements in it. Many for discussion but you will have to remind me what part two is about. I don't want to spoil anything.

[Colleen]

RachelvlehcaR wrote: "Not a problem Colleen. I just finished the book. It's such a wonderful book."

Whoa - finished?! Good for you - I am enjoying it, I wish I had picked it up years ago but was always so daunted by the size. Did it become un-put-downable for you at a certain point or would you have made it through it this quickly anyway?

I probably will continue with a part a week, as well. I got thrown off last week with a couple of library books that I had been waiting for but I think I'll finished up Part 2 tonight and then I'll work through Part 3 over the weekend to be ready to start Part 4 early next week.

[Colleen]

RachelvlehcaR wrote: "Chapter 8 is pretty long but it also has lots of switching back and forth between Agnes and William. I didn't get confused or lost but I really like it when authors make it clear when they switch b..."

I felt the switching got a bit too frequent towards the end of the chapter but generally, I liked it, as well.

[Amanda]

Part 2 finished. In this part I got to know Agnes, Henry and Emmeline better although there is something about Mrs Fox that leaves a question. Sugar also went on a bus trip. This is to remind you, Rachel, without saying too much about what part 2 is about. I feel so sorry for Agnes. She just exists and nothing more. How do I feel about William? Do I like him? I do find him an interesting character but I feel bad for Agnes. And Sugar? It seems that she is happy at the end of this part but also goes a little bit crazy with the roses. Is that The Crimson Peral from the title?
I've been sufferung with flu so haven't read as quickly as I would like. Looking forward to the next part

[Amanda]

Petal :) I couldn't see what I was writing!

[Nathalie]

Last year I have read a couple of chapters. Maybe I pick-up where I left it and join the club.

[Colleen]

Amanda wrote: "Part 2 finished. In this part I got to know Agnes, Henry and Emmeline better although there is something about Mrs Fox that leaves a question."

Yeah, there's something up with Mrs. Fox, for sure.

(view spoiler)[There are so many odd little things about her - the reference to the Adam's apple was weird. And is it just me or is Henry starting to totally lose it - why in heaven's name is he going walking at night in bad areas of town? I feel like this is a total recipe for disaster. I thought that was taking us down the path of him running into William but now that Sugar has been enshrined in her little love shack, I'm guessing that's not the case.

Speaking of Sugar... Interesting you thought of the Crimson Petal when the thing with the roses happened. That never occurred to me. The title is still an enigma to me - I want to look up the meaning of it but I think it might end up spoiling the rest of the book.

And Mrs. Rackham's tumour!?! Didn't see that coming, I assumed she had depression or something similar, which doctors didn't understand back then. But the tumour must be responsible for her oddities. But I do wonder about the whole scene where the sky went dark when she went out - we learned later that she thinks it always goes dark when she goes out, so I'll be looking for more on that. I feel bad for her, too. She was so ignored by William for so long and now it's like he's just using her to show off his wealth (considering buying her a coach, telling her she can go to a dressmaker, etc.) (hide spoiler)]

On to Part 3! I'll have it done sometime this weekend so I'll be back when I am!

[Colleen]

Nathalie wrote: "Last year I have read a couple of chapters. Maybe I pick-up where I left it and join the club."

You're more than welcome to join us. Rachel has already finished but Amanda and I just finished up Part 2 and are moving on to Part 3 now.

[RachelvlehcaR]

Colleen wrote: "I felt the switching got a bit too frequent towards the end of the chapter but generally, I liked it, as well. "

It was like Faber was trying to make it suspenseful. I liked it too but lots of switching back and forth.

[RachelvlehcaR]

Amanda wrote: "Part 2 finished. In this part I got to know Agnes, Henry and Emmeline better although there is something about Mrs Fox that leaves a question. Sugar also went on a bus trip. This is to remind you, ..."

Sorry you are not feeling well. I hope you feel better soon.

Putting it in spoiler for those not that far.
In part two, (view spoiler)[ It's so sad to see Agnes but this is typical for that time period. It was common for men to have mistresses, gamble, and drink but for a woman she had to be proper and stay at home unless she had some good cause that was a volunteer work. The husband rare touched her sexually and if so it was for his pleasure and not hers. If she had postpartum depression or any type of situational depression, they called in the doctors and everything was made worse. It reminds me so much of the yellow wallpaper. (hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

I'll post more once I'm home from work.

[Colleen]

Oh, I can't help but think things have taken a turn for the worse....

(view spoiler)[I just KNEW that Sugar was going to end up being Sophie's governess and frankly, this seems like a recipe for disaster.

This part had a lot crammed in to it. I didn't see Henry's death coming at all, Mrs. Fox seems like she's declining rather quickly and that tumour of Agnes' doesn't seem to be making things any easier for her. Also, I wonder if Sugar is starting to lose it - with her following the Rackhams and wanting to be Sophie's governess.

Well, on to Part 4! (hide spoiler)]

[RachelvlehcaR]

Colleen wrote: "Oh, I can't help but think things have taken a turn for the worse...."

(view spoiler)[
Oh, I know! Sugar is so interested in Agnes and her life. She has even went through her stalker mode. I don't think being the governess would be good at all. There is so much that could go on wrong.

I didn't see Henry's death coming either and so horrible too. I thought Mrs. Fox would be dead first not Henry.

This is a very rich story. So much is in it. (hide spoiler)]

[Nathalie]

Last year I read the first sugar part and a little bit of William, I guess the switch made me stop.
But I picked it up when I saw the spoilers in here and now I am enjoying the read.
Now just started the Henry part.

[Amanda]

Part 3 finished. Properly updated my spoiler! (view spoiler)[ Is Sugar changing? In the beginning she seemed so strong. She's dropped her story which used to keep her going and she acts differently towards Caroline. Is she falling in love with William? Or is she using every means possible to stay in his favour? It's a bit creepy her following the Rackhams everywhere and standing outside the house. I never saw it coming about Henry. I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I hadn't misread it. Sugar is making herself indispensable re the business and from the title of the next part I can imagine that she will become Sophie's governess. I can't help but feel it's all going to go wrong. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Nathalie]

part 2 finished and halfway part 3

[Amanda]

I've finished the book. I thought I'm going to try to finish it by the end of February. What a great book! I gave it 4 stars.

Spoiler for part 4 (view spoiler)[What has happened to William? Will he be OK? Since Sugar has come into the house, their relationship has changed. She now sees the strains William is under regarding Agnes. Before he could escape to see her and leave his troubles behind. I'm not sure if sending Agnes off to a convent is the best thing for her but at least you can see she is coping with making the journey. It is so sad about Sophie, not knowing her mother at all and her father being distant. Sugar has provided some positivity in her life. (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

Part 5 (view spoiler)[The open ending... It makes me a bit frustrated not to know how it ends properly but I suppose it couldn't be any other way. Now at least it's up to the reader to decide if Sugar gets caught with Sophie or not. I suppose after reading such a huge book, it would be pretty sad if Sugar ended up in prison. I'm not sure if Agnes is really dead. The identification of the body makes it a bit doubtful. Maybe she will live out her days with the nuns. William at the end I didn't like him very much. Maybe it's silly to think that they would all end up happily-ever-after. Sugar as a mistress is fine but as a wife? (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

Thanks so much for reading the book with me. I've just caught up on the spoilers and it's great to read everyone's views. I would love to read a sequel but I don't think there will ever be one. I came across a book of stories of the characters before The Crimson Petal and the White begins. I'll find the link and post it.

On another note, I have another huge book to read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Susanna Clarke. Would anyone be interested in reading it with me? No start date planned.

[Amanda]

Here's the link The Apple: New Crimson Petal Stories

[Nathalie]

I like the story, but it is a little bit slow. It reminds me to "the secret history" by Donna Tart.

[Colleen]

Amanda wrote: "In the beginning she seemed so strong. She's dropped her story which used to keep her going and she acts differently towards Caroline. Is she falling in love with William? Or is she using every means possible to stay in his favour?"

I know you wrote that about Part 3 and I felt the same there but man, did it ever come on strong in Part 4! In 3, Sugar was starting to feel a bit "Single White Female" to me but now I just feel sorry for her :(

[Colleen]

Amanda wrote: "On another note, I have another huge book to read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell by Susanna Clarke. Would anyone be interested in reading it with me? No start date planned."

I read that one a few years ago so I won't be joining you. I hope you enjoy it!

[Colleen]

Amanda wrote: "Here's the link The Apple: New Crimson Petal Stories"

Awesome, thanks - I'm definitely going to pick that up!