The Pickwick Club discussion
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Hard Times
Hard Times
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Part I Chapters 04-05
Kim wrote: "I'm on the hunt for Dickens and dogs. :-)"
Kim
You constantly amaze and delight me with your ability to track down these great anecdotal and amazing facts and pictures.
Thank you.
I love the dog thread, and that someone's actually written a book on this! But even more, I'm pleased to see that Lagullande hasn't left me alone on the terrier side of the aisle. ;-)
Kim wrote: "I'm on the hunt for Dickens and dogs. :-)"
Using a rifle or a shotgun?
Everyman wrote: "Kim wrote: "I'm on the hunt for Dickens and dogs. :-)"
Using a rifle or a shotgun?"
Living in this valley I could probably get any type of firearm I could possibly think of. But I like dogs better than I like people so the dogs are safe from me.
Everyman wrote: "Oh, absolutely. Probably a small spaniel; at least if I were illustrating the book that's the dog I would use. ."Merrylegs must be a dog with short legs because merriness is always brief ;-)
Kim wrote: "I'm on the hunt for Dickens and dogs. :-)"
Dear dog
So do I. Where can I get a T-shirt like yours?
Here's one for certain members - if they have a dog that is:
http://www.cafepress.com/+charles-dic...
Thank you Kim. Glancing through all the choices was neat. I think I will order one, even though they are very pricey. I do have a birthday coming up, and my wife has been asking what I wanted ...
If Gradgrind's character is beyond my comprehension then Bounderby is from another orbit outside our universe. At first I couldn't understand why, in his pride, he would wish to advertise his very destitute beginnings. But then I got it. Of course, it was to stress his single-handed climb from the bottom. There is that strange masochistic pleasure that he derives from his beyond poor start in life. It's reminiscent of a month Python sketch where each one outdoes the other in the extremes of poverty that they grew up with. Afraid I can't quote, but 'twas very funny in a deliciously warped way. Only Python, oh AND Dickens.
Yes, the poorer his beginnings, the more Bounderby can claim his rise to be his merit alone, and he is taking extreme pleasure in boasting. I sometimes catch myself arguing in a Pythonesque way with my son when I try to point out to him the blessings of being born in his generation. He has been nagging us about a Wii U for months now - unbeknownst to him, we bought one as his birthday present for February (one day after Dickens, by the way), and because he prepared so diligently for his music competition -, and I keep darting at him sentences like, "Young 'un, when I was your age, our elders used to give us chicken bones - and we had to gnaw them to get some lunch, and afterwards we were allowed to keep them as toys." Or, "When I was your age, we used to play football with a bunch of old rags tied together." I must confess that I got some inspiration reading the first few chapters of Oliver Twist.
Tristram wrote: " I keep darting at him sentences like, "Young 'un, when I was your age, our elders used to give us chicken bones"You're a nut. I gave up on figuring out what my daughter was trying to tell me when she was describing the things I was supposed to get our grandchildren for their birthdays and Christmas, things like Kurio Extreme two, Wii U (I'll take your word for that one, I just wrote down WE U when she'd be telling me), and Diddy Kong Amiblo or something like that. I just figured out how much this was all going to cost and handed her the money. Luckily birthdays aren't until August. :-)
A bit more on dogs and Dickens ...In a letter to Dickens's friend Mark Lemon in 1849 Dickens suggested to Lemon that they "go somewhere, say to a public house by the Thames where those performing dogs go at night." (Letters 7. 895). Evidently Dickens enjoyed having a pint or two with a friend while watching performing dogs. Perhaps Merrylegs was born into Dickens's imagination on a pub night with his friend.
In the inaugural issue of "Household Words" 30 March 1850 Dickens's manifesto commented "No mere utilitarian spirit, no iron binding of the mind to grim realities will give a harsh tone to our Household Words ... we would tenderly cherish that light of Fancy which is inherent in the human breast."It seems clear that Dickens, in HT, is in the process of evolving his comments into a novel.
Peter wrote: "Evidently Dickens enjoyed having a pint or two with a friend while watching performing dogs."I'm trying to imagine what the dogs did for their performance. And if they were in costume... I wonder if those nifty Dickens doggie t-shirts were available back then. :)
Kim wrote: "You're a nut."Okay, I'll have to admit that on special holidays we got turkey bones instead of chicken bones. But on these occasions, three children had to share one bone betwixt them.
Bwah hahah... Tristram, I can only begin to imagine how you and Brendan, my husband, would get on. Your senses of humour are eerily similar. Love it! I can imagine you two, drinking on into the night (tea, of course) and trying to outdo one another in Pythonesque hard luck stories. You'd either get on really well or one of you would throw his toys out of the pram and we'd have to call the cops. :p. You would sit very well in one of Dickens's grotesque stories; actually just like this one. ;-)
Tristram wrote: But on these occasions, three children had to share one bone betwixt them. "You were lucky to get that. We didn't even get the bones -- they went to the dogs, who ate better than we did. We had to settle for the little bits of gristle to put in our gruel.
Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: But on these occasions, three children had to share one bone betwixt them. "You were lucky to get that. We didn't even get the bones -- they went to the dogs, who ate better than ..."
You're a nut too.
You're a hoot, Kim!*Drum Roll*
And the winner of 'The Annual January Award 2016 for the Best Musings in the Grotesque that make me Laugh and All That' go to EVERYMAN!!! [Endless Applause and Lapsang Souchong]
The Annual January Party has now grown to three or four, so remember your hats as you leave.
Linda, it's OK, you can call off your search: he's indubitably a cocker spaniel.
Oh no, please don't encourage him. :-)
This one is from George Cruikshank:
But which one is Merrylegs??
Mary Lou, he's the cocker spaniel. If there isn't a cocker spaniel in the pictures, then Merrylegs isn't there. I hope this helps. :D
Here's Merrylegs (otherwise known as Willow) puppy picture: ;-)
And her three year old (otherwise known as yesterday) photo:
Awh how cute, Kim! Such a lovely little doggie and puppy. I'm convinced that Willow is Merrylegs and Merrylegs is Willow. So delighted! You are very fortunate to have such a lovely little dog!
Willow is adorable, but I fear you and I will never agree on Merrylegs! (And no - I don't have a terrier. I currently have a boxer and a lab mix. I inherited a Yorkie from my father-in-law once, but she was no Merrylegs, either. Actually, she was a bit of a terror! I loved her, but she could be snippy!)
Love that first performing dog illustration, Kim! I am especially drawn to the dog couple all dressed up pushing the puppy buggy. :)And I think cute little Willow makes a perfect Merrylegs in my mind!
Willow is Merrylegs. I really loved the illustrations you provided, especially the Cruikshank.
Kim wrote: "Oh no, please don't encourage him. :-)"Too late. What Hilary wants, Hilary gets.
Yayyyyyy ... When Everyman calls it, it shall be called ...
Everyman wrote: "We had to settle for the little bits of gristle to put in our gruel."But then at least you had gruel! We were only, from time to time, given a chance to watch the slightly better-off kids eating their gruel.
Hilary wrote: "Bwah hahah... Tristram, I can only begin to imagine how you and Brendan, my husband, would get on. Your senses of humour are eerily similar. Love it! I can imagine you two, drinking on into the nig..."Seems like you have a very nice husband, Hilary! It's always important for a couple to share the same sense of humour.
Tristram wrote: "Everyman wrote: "We had to settle for the little bits of gristle to put in our gruel."But then at least you had gruel! We were only, from time to time, given a chance to watch the slightly better..."
One point to you.
Everyman wrote: "One point to you."I'm very obliged, although I'll have to share this point with my flock of needy siblings and cousins and cousins' cousins.
Tristram wrote: "Everyman wrote: "One point to you."I'm very obliged, although I'll have to share this point with my flock of needy siblings and cousins and cousins' cousins."
Oh, please, it's almost more than I can stand.
Hahaha Tristram, Everyman and Kim. Sure where would you find a group like it?!Yep, Tristram, Brendan is indeed a treasure. I hit the jackpot the day I met him. He, unfortunately, got the booby prize. ;-)
Hilary wrote: " He, unfortunately, got the booby prize. ;-) ."You may tell him that any time he wants to pass on his booby prize, he has only to call me and I will gladly take it/her off his hands.
Hahaha, Everyman! I shall indeed make him aware of your offer. He'll be forever indebted to you, though I shall wait until after his birthday. Why? you may ask. Well, I suppose why not?! ;-)
Hilary wrote: "I hit the jackpot the day I met him. He, unfortunately, got the booby prize. ;-) "I'm sure he didn't. But I once used a similar argument to convince my wife that my common sense and taste are better than hers. When she demanded proof, I told her to just look what kind of spouse I had chosen, and with what doubtful fellow she had wound up.
Haha Tristram, 'tis dangerous water! :-)
Yes, full of snags and crocodiles, and snags that look like crocodiles, not to forget those very dangerous crocodiles that at first look like snags ...
I'm loving this read so far - and all your comments. It's not going to be Dickens as a "Great Literary Writer" I don't think, rather a revisiting of the hyperbole, cutting sarcasm and exaggeration (really hammering its points home) of Oliver Twist. For all its faults, I found that book very entertaining, and seem to be giggling a lot at this one too. Chris was a little puzzled at this, as he remembers the story of Hard Times (from a TV adaptation) as being pretty grim, but then it's mostly Dickens's writing style. And "Somethingological" just made me fall about!"Merrylegs" is such a perfect name for an exuberant little dog, I do agree! When I was little, I remember a small travelling family circuses, which performed in our local park each year (no tent or anything) and they tended to have acts rather like that! I'll see if I can find any photos.
It's also reminding me of a talk I went to recently on Dickens as a showman, which I'll put on a more general thread :)
I agree with you, Jean, that Hard Times certainly gives us a lot of examples of Dickens as a brilliant satirist - as in many of the general Coketown passages -, and I particularly enjoyed the scenes that had to do with Bounderby and Mrs. Sparsit. Overall, however, the story did not give him enough room to expand his Dickens-ness.I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of it.
Well Jean, you have cracked the pages of HT. Isn't it different from BH? I'm envious that you went to a talk on Dickens.
Dickens seems to me to be giving (demanding?) the reader to be up to date with their history in HT. The novel sails closely to the events of the time.
Here's the photo I remember from 1958, taken in the local park. The circus had quite a few performing dogs and ponies:
(And yes, I did take it! I was a tiny tot and not quite yet allowed my own camera, but my Dad told me what to do :) )
Thanks for replying! I've finished the first third, and I am missing the "old Dickens", and feel he was under pressure to tighten this one up. I'm looking forward to joining in you all in Little Dorrit, which I seem to remember is far more leisurely. This has good points but it keeps reminding me of his less mature work, when all the indignation and passion against various conditions of the time came through, but sometimes he sacrificed the other aspects of writing he was so good at. But any examples I'll put on the relevant threads.
Thanks for reminding me I still haven't told you about the talk!
Jean wrote: "Here's the photo I remember from 1958, taken in the local park. The circus had quite a few performing dogs and ponies:"Neat photo! I'm guessing early 50s?
Hi Everyman - Nope, 1958. Written on the back. I was a babe in arms in the early 1950's and though I may have been a precocious little baggage, I couldn't have held a camera at that age!
Jean wrote: "Hi Everyman - Nope, 1958. !"Well, early 50s wasn't that far off. could be as late as 53, only 5 years off, which isn't bad for a guess on a photo like that.
Besides, I'm not willing to concede that even as a babe in arms you couldn't have taken a photo, with your mom holding the camera and you looking through it and pushing the button. If you were half as talented as a babe as you are now as an adult, it would have been child's play for you!
The Pickwick Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Little Dorrit (other topics)Oliver Twist (other topics)
Hard Times (other topics)
The Dog in the Dickensian Imagination (other topics)
The Dog in the Dickensian Imagination (other topics)
"As you ask me about the dogs, I begin with them. The two Newfoundland dogs coming to meet me, with the usual carriage and the usual driver, and beholding me coming in my usual dress out at the usual door, it struck me that their recollection of my having been absent for any unusual time was at once cancelled. They behaved (they are both young dogs) exactly in their usual manner; coming behind the basket phaeton as we trotted along, and lifting their heads to have their ears pulled,—a special attention which they receive from no one else. But when I drove into the stable-yard, Linda (the St. Bernard) was greatly excited, weeping profusely, and throwing herself on her back that she might caress my foot with her great fore-paws. M.'s little dog, too, Mrs. Bouncer, barked in the greatest agitation, on being called down and asked, 'Who is this?' tearing round and round me like the dog in the Faust outlines."