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Should men be part of feminist movement? No!
I don't think we do live in a male dominates society. You shouldn't feel so guilty.
If we did live in a male dominated society, there would be no laws made to help women, no concern would be given to them, rape would not be a crime at all, and women would get stoned to death for stepping out of line. A Male dominates society is the middle east my friend, which is where women rights are desperately needed. the West is the most liberated in the world, women in a-lot of cases are out doing men, which their is nothing wrong with that by the way.Which bring me back to why didn't feminist speak out about The 2015 New Years Eve Attacks in #Cologne (#Köln). What you have here is oppressive men for a male dominated culture migrating to a first world culture. There was a girl form germany who posted about her experiences with this on the this site. You should look at it.
So you see something unfair just if they rape you? I think we are way more developed, and that's the basics (and even the basics are not respected). You can't seriously believe that we live in an equal society. You just try to defend your opinion. And you shouldn't because it's absurd.
James wrote: "I don't think we do live in a male dominates society. You shouldn't feel so guilty."Hi James, i agree with you....yet...there are certain areas or professions that are privileged by a certain gender, eg: nurses are mainly women or f1 are mainly men:
THIS IS CHANGING:
some nurses are male (some of them even good looking)
and there is more womEn Interaktion in f1 and Nascar.
I guess they still have to prove themselves that any gender can be good in any proffession...alltough.....i know if you get sich, youll prefer a good looking woman to take care of you or in f1 ill trust a male engineer to bring more sucess to my driver
James wrote: "If we did live in a male dominated society, there would be no laws made to help women, no concern would be given to them, rape would not be a crime at all, and women would get stoned to death for s..."I dont think you understand the term "male dominated." You may want to look into it more, as we Do very much live in a male dominated society.
Just because some dude are part of the problem doesn't mean that other dudes cannot be part of the solution.
Should men be apart of feminism is really a question that should be addressed by individual men. There are definitely men who show more affinity for feminism than others. Still, as a non- feminist woman, it is hard for me to answer this question. I do have interesting points to raise. First here is an article in regards to men and women's movements. Http://psychologytomorrowmagazine.com...I think the basic premise of this article is that men need to learn what it means to be men before they can truly be effective.
A lot of feminism is about telling men what they are doing that is not effective. They shouldn't be rude, disrespectful, unemotionally unresponsive...etc. And telling them what they should do. Listen, support us, treat us as equals. Because as women our sense of equality and being treated as equals comes from more of a shared she of community while men, being more competitive have different sense of equality. This comes across in our words. Women use more affiliative language while men use more competitive language. So, when we ask to be treated with respect and equality and are treated in the same way a guy may treat his male equal- of course we are going to feel disrespected. Many of us expect a more community oriented equality rather than a challenging one.
The fact that you expect that kind of equality doesn't mean that you are naturally meant to do that, but that you feel too weak in order to do the contrary, and that's because of social reality, not nature. And that's what you seem not to observe, and it's what keeps you submissive.
You can't fight guns with flowers.
Concetta wrote: "Jonelle wrote: "Holly wrote: "women and men both need feminism.. this shouldn't even be a discussion. The literal definition of feminism is the social, political and economic equality of BOTH sexes..."This. You cannot have open dialog about any topic while simultaneously excluding a particular set of participants.
By the way, you shouldn't confuse controlling emotions with being emotionless. There's a huge difference between trying to make a better world and making a better world. And if you think you can do the second by being soft you're wrong. And even though this post won't change the world I hate banal discussing, so I prefer to say what I think even if you don't like it than being neutral and solving nothing. It's easy to agree with everybody. It's the easiest thing in fact. But there's no chance to change there.
No matter the opinion, you can't achieve your goal without the other part. Men are in control of most things. If you don't reach out to them and change their minds, you are never going to achieve true equality.Look at the revolution in the 60s and 70s. Women achieved a great deal without men BUT women didn't achieve everything they wanted. They achieved just enough to be satisfied while really not taking any control away from men. These issues are what we are dealing with today.
You need men on your side to make things happen whether you like it or not.
@James said: "Maybe the grass is always greener on the other side. Women feel like men are more privileged and men feel that women are more privileged. We put to much stock in classifying people for what the are rather then who they are."
No - people who don't understand privilege think that everyone else is more privileged than them. Men who think women are more privileged want to maintain their privilege.
And can we say that "there is no right or wrong" when the whole point of someone's comments is to deny that this group - and feminism in general - needs to exist? I think it's wrong in a group attempting to say women need equality, to say "no - women don't need equality."
Mod
Jessica, this is because the feminist tradition has to do with women's voices being heard! Historically we are underrepresented and silenced, and what you see as telling men what to do (related to the "bossy" problem that women face), is really just demanding the respect that we have been denied in the past.
Furthermore, your assessment of how women and men communicate is reductive and makes assumptions that harm both genders. It is not productive to assume that women only perceive that they are being disrespected because they don't understand the language that men use. Frankly, it suggests in an indirect way that women's communication is ineffective and inferior. If men and women communicate differently, and men typically have the best jobs and salaries, that sends a message that their method of communication is superior, and that's simply untrue.
Any gender stereotypes about the ways that men and women communicate are perpetuated and reinscribed constantly by patriarchy. This does not implicate men, rather cultural systems that have taught women since birth what they are worth (their bodies, reproductive role, childrearing, but primarily not their minds). So perhaps your assessment of miscommunication between men and women is accurate in your experience, but that doesn't make it right. We need to overcome these gender-based assumptions. Human beings have evolved and developed technology to a point that evidences that determination based on biology is no longer necessary and simply inaccurate. Even if these stereotypes were natural, human beings have proven that we no long need to rely on what is natural, and women in particular have proven this time and time again. As it stands, however, these assumptions about gender roles are almost entirely culturally constructed, which means they can also be demolished.
It seems like maybe we need a post clarifying what privilege is and how it works because some comments make me think that perhaps it is unclear.Privilege is when you are able to easily navigate certain issues (or avoid them entirely) based on a preferred characteristic. It doesn't mean that you live life without problems or that you have it easy. There is also no static hierarchy for privilege. It's fluid and can be subordinated by another form of privilege depending on the situation.
An example: White is a privileged race construct. Male is a privileged gender construct. If you have a black man and a white woman in various scenarios, there are times when the black man will have the advantage based on gender privilege while in other scenarios the white woman will have the advantage based on race privilege. There is privilege based on faith tradition (Christian in the US), education, socioeconomic background, sexual preference, marital status, and so on. As a white, college-educated, heterosexual, cisgendered person, I have a lot of privilege. But I am also female and atheist, which puts me at a severe disadvantage in certain areas. How those privileges and disadvantages play out depends on the situation. I never get challenged using a public restroom because my gender cues match my gender identity. I *always* take precautions against sexual violence because my gender puts me at risk.
I hope this helps to clarify the issue some.
Erin wrote: "It seems like maybe we need a post clarifying what privilege is and how it works because some comments make me think that perhaps it is unclear."Great post!
We often forget that feminism fights for the equality of all genders because females are the ones oppressed in most situations. Men should be able to take on responsibilities primarily allocated to women, such as housework or crafting however, if they do, most men and even women mock them. Thus, men should also be fighting to grant everyone the opportunity to be viewed as "normal". In addition, currently men hold most of the political and economic power in the world, whether we like it or not, so by allowing them to join our fight, we make it much easier to achieve our goals.
Simply, men MUST be a part of the feminist movement, for they hold the majority of political positions that will help women get to where they always should have been - side-by-side with men.
I thought these men really hit the nail on the head when discussing the importance of men taking part in feminism.That’s What He Said | Women
Original Description from video: It has been said that ‘Men are afraid women will laugh at them, and women are afraid men will kill them.’ How do you feel about this statement? In this episode our men discuss how they relate to women, adding a much needed male point of view to the discussion surrounding gender equality.
Ash wrote: "James wrote: "It is a short watch, No one has to watch it, but it would be very much appreciated. "Is this it? Because I didn't watched the video, but read the whole interview instead.
I would ac..."
If a man said that about women especially if that man was in a movement for equality, or supposed equality, he would be fired and ostracized in our western society. But she and others like her have been aloud to speak whether through tongue and cheek speeches or seriously about the internment and genocide of men and many other extreme radical views. If a person were to speak about any other group in this content, the Jews, African Americans, muslums, christians, there would be a public outrage. but Because she is talking about men it is aloud. Also people with your mindset instead of calling her out make excesses for her. She is not held accountable for her actions or words in the feminist camp. This is my point about Feminist dropping Ideas of Patriarchy and other negative ideas of men in our culture. Because it always leads to the demonization and hatred of men ever time. These Ideas are not new they came out of Radical Feminism of the 60's and 70's.
Most regular people who identify with feminism have the best intentions i do believe that. unfortunately the main heads of Feminism, the women who run it are people like Julie Bindle.
Feminist keep asking why people associate their movement with man hating and reject them, It's because on a lot of levels it is very true.
Mod
Is this it? Because I didn't watched the video, but read the whole interview instead..."
What do you mean by "main heads" of feminism and "the women who run it"?
Don't you think it's a bit reductive to assign authority of a global and diverse group of people to a single person or small group? There are certainly feminist leaders who are producing great work in various media, but to choose one person as a "main head" of feminism is wrong. And honestly, based on your refusal to acknowledge any of the points brought up here, it seems awfully convenient that the name you've decided on as "the woman who runs feminism" is someone you feel is an easy target for your arguments.
I'm getting very overwhelmed by the multiple topics i've been commenting on, so I don't remember if it was on the this thread or another that you've been commenting on, but I provided you with a simple explanation of what patriarchy is. I have redirected your attention to it more than once. You still have yet to respond to it. If you're not going to engage with other people's points of view, please stop using the term patriarchy because it is clear that you are not interested in learning its real function.
Adam wrote: "So you see something unfair just if they rape you? I think we are way more developed, and that's the basics (and even the basics are not respected). You can't seriously believe that we live in an e..."Adam wrote: "The fact that you expect that kind of equality doesn't mean that you are naturally meant to do that, but that you feel too weak in order to do the contrary, and that's because of social reality, no..."
In terms of Western Society based on law and regulations of equality yes men and women are equal. Note that I am speaking in terms of the structure of our laws, not of the social aspect. In terms of the systematic oppression women are no more oppressed then men are and in some cases of the law men are actually held more accountable to the laws then women are.
Oh come on. So what with laws? Laws are just some rules, some basic stuff, we human beings are a lot more complex than that. Culture is the foundation of a society, not laws. You can't say that a collective achieves equality because you have equalitarian laws (and that would be another discussion). They are important of course but it's obviously not enough.
Egalitarian* my English sucks sometimes.
And when I said that my English sucks, I gave you proof that laws are not enough. We make fun of women for sucking it, because we use them as sexual objects. So, that's culture, and laws don't change that
Mod
Men are sometimes held more accountable to certain laws as a result of insidious gender stereotypes, which result from patriarchy, which devalues femininity. When men are culturally categorized as stronger, more powerful, more intelligent, all of these things result in unequal treatment in the eyes of the law, as men are held more accountable for their actions. This is one of the many men's issues that come about as a result of gender discrimination, and one of the many problems feminists are trying to correct.
Men not in the feminist movement would have the same result as hearing and seeing people refusing to join the deaf-blind movement or join the Children Labour Laws movement (to make up two types of movements that might exist under different titles). We didn't get child labour laws passed without joining children in a fight to better their fate. We didn't get the proper rights, teachers and various help needed for the deaf-blind by refusing to join them in their cause. In 2012 I think it was, England had 24 specialist teachers who were specifically trained to work with Deaf-blind students. By comparison ALL of North America ONLY had 3! I believe it was 1 in Canada, 1 in Pennsylvania and 1 in Mexico. (If wrong, then Canada had 2 and USA had none). This is pathetic! I would like to believe since the documentary aired (by hearing/seeing people) that this situation has changed and we do have more people who can teach these types of students, but I doubt we have even .05% of the amount of specialist we need to teach these students! (Only 4 - 6 years have passed since the documentary was filmed. The documentary might have been in 2010 too, but not earlier for when I saw it on the telly in the USA.)
So you're comparing children and deaf-blind people to women? Why do you hate yourself? Haha. I mean, deaf-blind people need help because they're not capable of doing all we do easily because of their dysfunction, and children, well, are children. But what is your problem as women? I mean, even without rules, in a completely anarchic society, how could we men stop you from doing anything? Killing you all? Or what? I really can't understand why you do not respect yourselves. This is why you don't change things. Because you're convinced you can't. That's how opression works.
Katelyn wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "It is a short watch, No one has to watch it, but it would be very much appreciated. "Is this it? Because I didn't watched the video, but read the whole int..."
Kytriya,
I'm not meaning to be dogging questions that you posed but like you have said yourself this form is kind of a cluster fuck (sorry for the swear) of people firing ideas and i do have other things to do like school and work, so if it seems like I was being silent it was not intentional. Allow me to clarify my words because they might not have been put in the best terms. Figure heads, think tank feminist was referring to Women in the feminist movement who have a lot of social political and economic power within society and within feminism. They are the professional feminist that are heads of different organizations and have a big voice and influence. I am not saying all feminist are like this nor am I saying all Feminist leaders are like this. I am saying that These Feminist radical leaders which there are a good number of have a large amount of power and go unchecked by all other forms of Feminist groups. Also It is the Ideologies that came form These radical Feminist groups and as you can see from the example video that these kinds of radical ideas always come from and lead to hated not unity. Listen I consider myself a Humanist and a indiviualist and I am a grad student in Biological Sociology... So I am at no means at odds with Equality or human rights.
Also I did read your post on patriarchy, and I fully understand your point of view. I did write a message on how i viewed patriarchy. And I countered it with evolutionary sociology. Again I have about 5 different people firing at me, and most bring up the same subjects. I can send you what I wrote to someone else as my views ok.
Again I am not trying to hurt anyone individually by believing that there are a lot of areas of Feminism that are hurtful to society. I think everyone heres is striving for a common goal.
Kytriya wrote: "Men not in the feminist movement would have the same result as hearing and seeing people refusing to join the deaf-blind movement or join the Children Labour Laws movement (to make up two types of ..."No not at all, and I did not say that. Of corse men had rain over women especially in the upper classes.
Lets look at it this way, women were seen as objects, but objects of value. Men were also seen as object, but more as disposable objects.
The disposable objects in the past were meant to be willing sacrifice themselves and dedicate themselves for the betterment of the society. The disposable objects had to provide something in order to be worthy of living. Women were objects of value because they could have children and because of this they were look at as the providers of the population of the society. So They were keep secure and safe and took up the role of domestic life in order to provide for the children. Women were more cared for in this way and held up above men in this way. Men were expected to sacrifice themselves not just for the society but for the women of the society. Men going off to war, men as the protectors, women and children first. Mens agency was to put other before himself and women agency was to provide for the children. As history progressed the roles of the genders evolved to fit the necessity of life and survival.
Also I would like to present the idea of Gynocentricism, the scientifically proven fact that almost every man, woman and child has been raised and instilled with a woman's point of view. so I think women roles in past society served a very important part.
I'm not saying women didn't get the short end of the stick what i'm suggesting is that the roles of men and women occurs in a much more natural way then a Patriarchy culture presented by Feminist thought. Which by the way Feminist are using the word Patriarchy wrong. Historical gender roles were no ones fault it was men and women taking on roles that best insured survival and property.
I would say that there are many ideas and theories of how different cultures developed and why men and women took the roles they did in society. For me personal I find the information about evolutionary sociology to be very informative.
I think to look at Things in terms of oppression in terms of men and women is a over simplification of the issue in the past. Yes it is true that women were servant to their husband in a lot of cases but I believe that it goes a lot deeper then that. Patriarchy theory, the way feminist present it, dose not really do past human social roles and development justice. Remember that Feminism started form upper-class wealthy well to do women wanting similar rights to their husbands. The poor class that was being oppressed by the rich, both shared work labored. Husbands and wives worked more of a partnership in order just to Live, raise a family. Most people did not have the right to vote, it was more about wealth and class then men having power over women. Then only the head of the family could vote and only if they owned property. Most men and women could own businesses...such as bar or taverns bakeries but they were ruled by that society,rich land owners and the state.
So the Idea of the Patriarchy again doesn't fully represent history...I could go own but I am by no means a export in these matters. If you would like to hear some great lectures on the matter I suggest listening to Karen Straughan lectures on her youtube page....Yes she dose speak for mens rights groups but she is very fair on the subject of gender debates and offered a lot of interesting lectures. Also by no means am i suggesting that women and men should stay tired to gender role of that past, I'm merely saying that our understand of the past is different then what we preserve it to be now.
Men Of the past acted as they saw accordingly, doing what they felt they had to do and they were oppressed as well. Mens roles in the past were no better in some respects to women's roles. I mean would you rather be stuck at home minding the children or go get your head blown off fighting a war. Like I said it's not about blame, and it's not about keeping roles the same, it is about moving forward. Blaming others for the past creates animosity and that keeps positive changes form occurring. That is why i think that the feminist camp needs to give the man blaming a rest It is doing more to hurt gender relationships then help. Also Young boys should not grow up feeling ashamed of being men. I for one get anger as hell whenever i here these assumed theories. You should not feel guilty of being a man or masculinity, it represent serving protecting, providing, and putting other above yourself. All these are great qualities for manhood. If men Received a little respect form the Feminist camp maybe more would feel like supporting it.
I hope that clears things up, have a good night.
Katelyn wrote: "James wrote: "In terms of the systematic oppression women are no more oppressed then men are and in some cases of the law men are actually held more accountable to the laws then women are."Men ar..." This is some responses I posted to others but I feel it kind of complements your message. If you you don't wish to read it that's cool.
Lets look at it this way, women were seen as objects, but objects of value. Men were also seen as object, but more as disposable objects.
The disposable objects in the past were meant to be willing sacrifice themselves and dedicate themselves for the betterment of the society. The disposable objects had to provide something in order to be worthy of living. Women were objects of value because they could have children and because of this they were look at as the providers of the population of the society. So They were keep secure and safe and took up the role of domestic life in order to provide for the children. Women were more cared for in this way and held up above men in this way. Men were expected to sacrifice themselves not just for the society but for the women of the society. Men going off to war, men as the protectors, women and children first. Mens agency was to put other before himself and women agency was to provide for the children. As history progressed the roles of the genders evolved to fit the necessity of life and survival.
Also I would like to present the idea of Gynocentricism, the scientifically proven fact that almost every man, woman and child has been raised and instilled with a woman's point of view. so I think women roles in past society served a very important part.
I'm not saying women didn't get the short end of the stick what i'm suggesting is that the roles of men and women occurs in a much more natural way then a Patriarchy culture presented by Feminist thought. Which by the way Feminist are using the word Patriarchy wrong. Historical gender roles were no ones fault it was men and women taking on roles that best insured survival and property.
I would say that there are many ideas and theories of how different cultures developed and why men and women took the roles they did in society. For me personal I find the information about evolutionary sociology to be very informative.
I think to look at Things in terms of oppression in terms of men and women is a over simplification of the issue in the past. Yes it is true that women were servant to their husband in a lot of cases but I believe that it goes a lot deeper then that. Patriarchy theory, the way feminist present it, dose not really do past human social roles and development justice. Remember that Feminism started form upper-class wealthy well to do women wanting similar rights to their husbands. The poor class that was being oppressed by the rich, both shared work labored. Husbands and wives worked more of a partnership in order just to Live, raise a family. Most people did not have the right to vote, it was more about wealth and class then men having power over women. Then only the head of the family could vote and only if they owned property. Most men and women could own businesses...such as bar or taverns bakeries but they were ruled by that society,rich land owners and the state.
So the Idea of the Patriarchy again doesn't fully represent history...I could go own but I am by no means a export in these matters. If you would like to hear some great lectures on the matter I suggest listening to Karen Straughan lectures on her youtube page....Yes she dose speak for mens rights groups but she is very fair on the subject of gender debates and offered a lot of interesting lectures. Also by no means am i suggesting that women and men should stay tired to gender role of that past, I'm merely saying that our understand of the past is different then what we preserve it to be now.
Men Of the past acted as they saw accordingly, doing what they felt they had to do and they were oppressed as well. Mens roles in the past were no better in some respects to women's roles. I mean would you rather be stuck at home minding the children or go get your head blown off fighting a war. Like I said it's not about blame, and it's not about keeping roles the same, it is about moving forward. Blaming others for the past creates animosity and that keeps positive changes form occurring. That is why i think that the feminist camp needs to give the man blaming a rest It is doing more to hurt gender relationships then help. Also Young boys should not grow up feeling ashamed of being men. I for one get anger as hell whenever i here these assumed theories. You should not feel guilty of being a man or masculinity, it represent serving protecting, providing, and putting other above yourself. All these are great qualities for manhood. If men Received a little respect form the Feminist camp maybe more would feel like supporting it.
Adam wrote: "Oh come on. So what with laws? Laws are just some rules, some basic stuff, we human beings are a lot more complex than that. Culture is the foundation of a society, not laws. You can't say that a c..."Yes I agree but is we are talking about the structure of a society then that is based on the laws that are in place. If we are talking about the culture of the society then that can be very diverse and more complexed based on different groups and individual ideas. If We are talking about Individual actions then that is even more down the rabbit hole. In western culture the society structure is not oppressive to women. Law have be set in place to assure this. So Women cannot really say that Society on a institutional level is oppressive.
But Men can say that society does favor women on a institutional level. laws against men rights
Despite what you have been told, in the western world today almost all legal and lethal sexual discrimination is against men.
Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
Men pay 97% of Alimony
Men make 94% of work suicides.
Men make up 93% of work fatalities.
Men make up 81% of all war deaths.
Men lose custody in 84% of divorces.
80% of all suicides are men.
77% of homicide victims are men.
89% of men will be the victim of at least one violent crime.
Men are over twice as victimised by strangers as women.
Men are 165% more likely to be convicted than women.
Men get 63% longer sentences than women for the same crime.
Court bias against men is at least 6 times bigger than racial bias.
Males are discriminated against in school and University.
Boys face vastly more corporal punishment than girls.
60-80% of the homeless are men.
Women's Cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's
At least 10% of fathers are victims of paternity fraud.
One third of all fathers in the USA have lost custody of children, most are expected to pay for this.
40-70% of domestic violence is against men however less than 1% of domestic violence shelter spaces are for men.
Male fatality rates are vastly higher than women's
Worldwide there are 107 men born for every 100 women, by age 65 there are 78 men for every 100 women, in countries like the USA & UK, its even worse, with 75/76 men for every 100 women. Despite the fact that health care spending for men is nearly twice as effective. In the few countries that have a majority male population and a preference for male children like China, Sons are legally obliged to care for parents when they are older, where as daughters are not. Many other countries like India have this as a social obligation. goo.gl/iZUcJJ
Despite all the pressures and risks facing men today support services for men are almost non existent compared to services for women. There are departments for women's issues in the White House and the UN, but none for men. The UN promotes genital mutilation of male children but condems female genital mutilation. This is Real Sexism.
Domestic Violence
Women are perpetrators often as men.
Women are more violent
Domestic violence being equally committed by women, only males get arrested
Men are over 40% of domestic abuse victims
Male DV victims are discriminated against
Gay and bi men experience abuse in intimate partner relationships at a rate of 2 in 5, which is comparable to the rate of domestic violence experienced by heterosexual women.
About 17-45% of lesbians report having been the victim of a least one act of physical violence perpetrated by a lesbian partner (1,5,6,13).
Men or DV is Not the leading cause of death among women under 50
More DV facts
More at http://www.realsexism.com
James wrote: "Katelyn wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "It is a short watch, No one has to watch it, but it would be very much appreciated. "Is this it? Because I didn't watched the video, but re..."
Its fine! I appreciate all different view points. And, I do read comments that are posted here to other people. And I do understand about schedule. I recently took a hiatus from Quora as I am too busy.
Thanks for replying! :D BIOLOGICAL SOCIOLOGY COOL! I majored in Social science with concentrated in Sociology, Criminal Justice and History.
Cool have good night ...Oh and I don't hate women just ask my girlfriend.
Adam wrote: "And when I said that my English sucks, I gave you proof that laws are not enough. We make fun of women for sucking it, because we use them as sexual objects. So, that's culture, and laws don't chan..."I hate to tell you this man but women use men as sexual objects as well...Just ask my girlfriend...All animals use the opposite sex as sexual objects biologically speaking. What kind of comment is that? hahaha. Morally speaking are you talking about objectification? Because that is a individual mindset...You can not paint men with that broad of a brush... Are males more of agents of actions traditionally when it comes to sex...probably...Please not making me go into evolutionary social gender sex roles of men and women I want to go to sleep and I would need some diagrams. Really man I don't need to justify men and women sexuality if you don't know it by know I might be worried about you.
So you would use the word suck as a sneer because your girlfriend sucks your dick? What I mean by treating women as sexual objects is doing just that, nothing else. And that's obviously not biologically speaking. Of course we use each other biologically speaking. We would be screwed if we didn't.
I've been told nothing. I don't do this frequently, I don't like to read at all, I just read for fun, not to say watch TV or something like that. I prefer to use my own brain. So don't assume I'm kind of brainwashed or something. I don't mean to say that we men are at the top of happiness at the expense of women. I try to say that whatever the reasons might have been for women to be opressed or as you call it 'given a special and privileged function', that's not valid anymore at all. And I expect them to take any job or any function they want to as well as us, because I would go crazy if I had to bear a weak dumbass next to me. I don't need a slave, and I don't consider that situation beneficial for anyone, so let's say I do it for selfish reasons. We men seem to have to load all the difficulties alone. Why? Let them take part of it too. I hope this explanation satisfies you more.
Katelyn wrote: "Jessica wrote: "Should men be apart of feminism is really a question that should be addressed by individual men. There are definitely men who show more affinity for feminism than others. Still, as ..."I do apologize, I wasn't trying to say that we are being bossy, I'm saying that because of the communication barriers that we may not recognize it when men offer respect. And so we do demand respect, line you said, in the way that we recognize.
I definitely agree that the barriers need to come done which is why I brought this up. Like you, I don't believe that allowing miscommunication is right. It's totally funny when you're playing operator as a kid, but as adults it can be harmful. As a trained mediator, I realize how difficult communication- especially when we are not using the same communication method, words, or ideas.
This communication difference is a topic that I been reading peer-reviewed articles on. If you like copies, I can definitely provided links to them. None of them attempt to reduce women to servants or men to disposable objects. But it, imo, accurately describes the typical cross -sex communication problems.
I agree that we can rise above our gender limitations. I'm not a very typical girl. I don't share my feelings easily. My mom used to laugh at me because I watched tv like a guy and was always comparing scars with her make friends.
Hello Adam,What we mean by equality is not equal statistics of men and women in the workplace--rather, it's more to do with men NOT overlooking women in the workplace. I'm sure all 10 CEO's im your example are well-deserving of their position, but what if a woman was overlooked for the position one of the men were holding simply because she's a woman?
That's the kind of equality we shoild be fighting for--where gender should NOT be the cause of decision-making, and the deciding factor of emplyment is merely qualifications and experience.
Vanu wrote: "Hello Adam,What we mean by equality is not equal statistics of men and women in the workplace--rather, it's more to do with men NOT overlooking women in the workplace. I'm sure all 10 CEO's im you..."
But at the same time one could say that a man was overlooked for a job and it was Given to a women just to feel a quota for affirmative action. And I'm not saying women women don't face hardships in the workplace, or that man are more deserving, or that any preference should be made over any kind of gender. Individuality should be the only judgement for a job.
James if you are opposing reservations and quotas I'm with you. I personally hate those things. It fills the mind of people with hatred against those who have been privileged. I understand they were discriminated against before. But seriously the current generation didn't did it and they sure as hell won't pay for it. Yup give them chances but by making more chances not by cutting the chances that are already there. If reservations and quotas exists discrimination will always live with them. Simple as that. I have seen more deserving people being left out because of stupid reservations.
However I will like to add I don't agree with anyone's comment that has anything to do with disrespect of someone.
If men aren't a part of the movement, there's kind of no point. How can we ever achieve equality if the people we're saying we are equal to don't acknowledge us?
Sorry, Emma Watson, but HeForShe Is Rotten for MenUntil feminism recognizes discrimination against men, the movement for gender equality will be incomplete.
Times News article about HeforShe.
http://time.com/3432838/emma-watson-f...
We've had centuries of taking care of men's needs. Perhaps we need to level the playing field before taking that final step?
Feminism is for EVERYONE! All genders must be included to achieve gender equality.
Mod
Many of us have given thoughtful responses to your claims about how feminism does not address men's issues. Gender stereotypes negatively affect everyone, therefore, by addressing them, feminism helps everyone, not just women. I've addressed longer responses to you a few other times, so I am not going to keep writing long paragraphs for you to continue to ignore. But this is the basic answer to your concerns. If those concerns were genuine, you would engage in a conversation rather than repeating yourself without acknowledging others' comments. If you refuse to engage with others, how can we ever move forward?
James wrote: "Adam wrote: "Oh come on. So what with laws? Laws are just some rules, some basic stuff, we human beings are a lot more complex than that. Culture is the foundation of a society, not laws. You can't..."All of your statistics are the result of patriarchy. I'd go through point by point and explain how/why they are the result of patriarchy, but you wouldn't engage with it anyway so I fail to see why I should waste my time.
Men created a system. They thought this system would benefit them even as it disadvantaged the rest of society under it. This system had unanticipated side effects that resulted in them being disadvantaged in certain situations. Now men cry foul and blame women for the system they set into motion. Sorry. You'll have to take that nonsense elsewhere.
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And here I thought we were mending fences Adam.