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The 5th Wave
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Part II-V Discussion
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I think this is a much harder question than it seems because while I don't think that something that is ingrained in your system can be fully erased I do believe that difficult circumstances like war and trauma can drastically change you to the point where survival becomes all important so aspects of your personality or parts of who you are as a person can become overshadowed by the need to adapt and survive. In the case of a lot of the younger children going through training, especially those who are 5-10 and just truly learning about the world, they never get the chance to develop those softer parts. They haven't had the time or the chance to really learn anything besides how to stay alive and because they are being put into these training camps at such young ages they won't ever get the chance. Part of this can be blamed on the Others because their invasion of Earth has changed the world so drastically that people are choosing to use and train these children as soldiers, but I don't believe that they are entirely to blame. There are enough adults in the world still that other tactics could be found to try and protect the youngest survivors. Those in charge are choosing to eliminate the adults and forcing the child survivors to change and harden to fight for them. I understand that they are doing the best they can to survive and survival is no cake walk, but I can't blame the others for taking away the innocence of younger generations when the adults are the ones running the camps.
I kind of agree with Megan that traumatizing events wont really erase something that you've been learning from day one. However, I recently took sociology and one of the things we talked about is how the brain doesn't develop properly if you don't have the proper social interactions. There was this girl named Anna, this all really happened, her mom locked her away in the attic because it was the only way that her father would allowed the child to stay in the house. The only interaction she had for fourteen years was when her mother brought her milk. She never got solid food, she was never held, spoken to, etc. When she was later found they discovered that she didn't know how to properly interact with people. She didn't know how to smile, speak, she wouldn't even acknowledge you if you touched her.Therefore I believe that if you are a child during the war like even that is happening in The 5th Wave, then you wouldn't really have the proper social skills to really be soft or kind or feel remorse even. However, Anna did learn to speak and smile after proper social interactions with people, so there's always the chance that the children could change if it is done properly.
Now, the older kids that are thrown into the camp, usually when you are stuck into something so wild and shocking then you either adapt to your surroundings, or you go into shock.
But that's just my take.
I think it's definitely possible for morals to change. With all that's going on I think it's understandable that people are thinking "do whatever to stay alive". Also I don't know about any body else but I was A little confused at first with reading bens perspective. I was like wait when did Cassie become a he:) but I liked reading it it was really cool seeing a view form the red tsunami. And was the other part from the aliens perspective? I wasn't sure. I'm loving this book so far and I can't wait to read more.
First of all I was surprised at this sudden turn of events to where Ben Parish appears. I really believe war/trauma can make you a stronger, better person (well in some cases) physically and mentally. It can totally make you forget that your past life existed before the war and you turn into this crude evil version of yourself. Also, cassie's story is going splendid. I'm really into this now as I found it to be a bit boring in the start. I'm really not into this alien invasion sort if thing so yeah.
I kind of agree with what everyone else has said so far. I believe that through different circumstances and life events your character can be moulded and changed depending on what experiences you've faced. We (mostly) grow up being taught how to be good/nice/helpful etc but what happens when everything changes? I would like to think that I'd still be the same person if I was in that position, but who knows?
Things outside of everyone's control are pushing and testing all of these people (characters) to their limits, and putting them through completely 'alien' experiences (excuse the pun). They are all having to do things they never would have dreamed of or even thought themselves capable of before. Hopefully deep down, their 'goodness ' and humanity as we know it is still there.
I must say I'm really enjoying this book (and really enjoying being part of this group - haven't done a book club before). I'm loving the different points of view, and seeing what the other characters are getting up to. Fab!
I do not believe that war can change your values and your moral. If you have been raised to appreciate certain things such as loyalty, freedom or being able to think and stand for yourself and to love the others around you, you cannot totally stop to acknowledge them as values, because they're what you are made of, what makes you human. Certainly it can happen that you have seen so many horrible things that you're not able to hold onto your values anymore and this is what happens from my point of view to Ben Parish. He wants to turn his conscience off, because of his regrets, because he wasn't able to help his little sister. He wants to turn himself into a deadly machine just for vengeance. This is the only form of punishment he was able to come up with in order to feel himself clean, to rid himself from guilt. Being part of the army and training to be a soldiers are also poor excuses for him not to think about what has happened, not to become numb from pain. He is just wearing a mask. A mask that he has invented for himself in order to excape from the idea of failure and incapability that has swallowed him since the day he left his sister alone in that house. I think that his feelings are under that mask and that we'll see glimpses of them in the next chapters.
Okay I'm a little behind but I just read *SPOILER*The part where they kissed and I got so giddy like they already seem so cute together
I was a little confused as to who was shooting at Cassie when she was in the highway, and when we got to the shooter's POV, I didn't realize just how many times she was close to actually dying without even realizing it. It made me wonder why it was that the shooter could never take the final step and just end her. Then we meet Evan and we start to see how Cassie has to change her mentality and learn how to trust someone, especially since this someone saved her life. I feel like that part really brought back the humanity in Cassie that we needed to see in her, so that we know she isn't just someone out to find her brother and that she actually is affected by the killing and death all around her. We needed to see that the Crucifix Soldier really did scar her and that she didn't just kill him because she didn't know if he was human or not.
I am a little ahead of the reading schedule and so I promise not to reveal anything beyond part V. Honestly it took me a while to get through part I because every time I picked up my book someone seemed to need something at that precise moment and it was always urgent. Disturbing family members aside, I am loving this book. I especially enjoy the way in which it is written, the journal like format allows us to experience first hand the characters emotions and anxieties. I literally jumped up at the words Benjamin Thomas Parish and look forward to Cassie's first encounter with the boy she thinks dead. Evan!! He is everything you want in a companion during a war of worlds but.. Something is nagging at the back of my mind and I find myself asking that stupid cliched question is he too good to be true??? Only one way to find out..
Cassie has shot up the list of favorite female book characters as I find her real, the emotions, the frustrations and her thoughts are those we all have had or would have being in a helpless situation. I really really like that she doesn't just know what to do and is afraid even when she has to be brave. The human nature in her character connects us which is pretty clever in a book based on alien invasion. Rick Yancey, you sir are a genius.
With these words my fellow court members I leave you until next time. I must continue reading.. (seriously I can't put it down)
With regard to the question posed by Ashely. As human beings I believe we have the ability to adapt in order to survive but I also believe that one doesn't simply lose their identity. Overtime a person may harden due to their harsh surroundings but it isn't as simple as flipping a switch, it can't be. If it is then I would question the personality of everyone I know including my own based on the thought that a person can so easily become someone else, almost the polar opposite of themselves. In Benjamin's case I don't believe he has lost his old self completely, I think we will see it as the story progresses and he gets to interact with other characters and like I said in my previous comment I look forward him and Cassie meeting. For her he's the boy she loved in a sense but never told and thinks dead and for him a face of the past life, not just before Zombie but also before he got sick or lost his family.
Honestly, I didn't enjoy few of the parts. There were scenes where I found captivating but some were just boring.I think that in times of war, your morals and beliefs can be muddled up because of the reason of war. Ben Parish, in changing to Zombie, still had a small piece of his old self but it was buried away. Cassie also had parts of her old self, still with her.
In meeting Evan for the first time, I felt something was off about him. But as I got to know him a little better, my opinion on him changed.
I'm not going to say anything else in case I accidentally say something spoiler related since I finished this book yesterday.
All of your guys' ideas are so interesting and intriguing to read about!I think the concept of Ben becoming vengeful and emotionless because he's punishing himself is something I had never thought of but something that completely seems possible. He says he's a different person now, yet the way he cares for his troop seems to prove otherwise.
I do think Evan is an interesting character so far. Rick Yancey is doing an incredible job instilling Cassie's fears into our heads and making us feel like a part of the story (I was constantly asking myself if Evan was too good to be true and I knew that we were missing something).
I also LOVED getting Sammy's perspective. I think Yancey perfectly captured the view of a 6-year-old and other than a few instances I truly felt we were seeing the world from his eyes.
One thing I noticed throughout the book is that Cassie's parts are the only ones written in first person... What do you all think this means?
Also, the "soldier training camps". Doubts and suspicions? Thoughts on the treatment of the recruits?
I feel like they're almost brainwashing them which made me a tad suspicious from the start, but I want so desperately to trust them (see, there's Cassie's fears showing up again).
Anyway, hope you all are enjoying what I think is an incredible read!
- Jordan <3
To reply to Jordan I agree with the whole brainwashing thing I don't trust the other soldiers very much I think they have a hidden agenda. And the whole p&d thing is just not right. And I don't understand why they're putting such young kids in the army
After reading these sections and seeing what Cassie and Sammy and everyone goes through, I believe you can lose part of who you once were. When trials get so tough or you see enough bad stuff, the mind tends to shut down thinking positively and focuses on survival. Therefore, I think that part of a person can be dormant. I don't think that these characters would ever completely lose part of themselves but I do think that through all the problems and trials they've faced, those softer parts can be laid aside and not acted upon. As to the Others stealing children's innocence... I 100% believe that. While the soldier tells Sammy that the girl beside him on the bus is simply sick, Rick Yancey leads me to believe Sammy knows something else is up. Sammy knows that bad things keep happening. He even finds it hard to believe it's "Camp Heaven." So yes I do believe the Others are stripping the innocence of the younger generation.
I am absolutely loving this book and this group! I enjoy seeing everyone's thoughts and I can't believe how I can't put this book down. Looking forward to what's next!
I really loved finding out that the identity of the second POV was Ben Parish! I look forward to Cassie finding out that he's not dead after all. Getting the silencer's POV wasn't what I expected. His thoughts about Cassie were interesting, his conflicted feelings gave me hope that not all is lost for those who they call, 'Others'. Like others mentioned, I'm definitely curious about Evan---want to know more about him and who he really is.As for the question posed by Ashley: I don't think that the softer parts of ourselves could be erased, not fully. People who survive in these situations probably usually bury those parts out of self-preservation. I think if circumstances allowed, those softer sides could come back to the surface again. I think the very young children are a different story, unfortunately. Being raised with these new influences, without the love of their families, they could grow into a whole generation of hardened, ruthless killers. Scary thought. Just starting part VI now---catching up!! :)
This is where you can post your thoughts on Parts 2-5. Once again, this begins today for the premiere schedule, you aren't behind if you're reading for the month! Just stop by and post when you get to it.
Something to talk about:
Building off Pt. 1's discussion of Cassie's Crucifix Soldier, we see a transition from Ben Parish to this harder version of himself, Zombie. Do you think it's possible for a softer part of ourselves to fully be erased by war/trauma/difficult circumstances? Are the Others succeeding in taking away the innocence of younger generations?