Background and Resources

[Everyman]

A place for identifying background and resource materials that may be of interest.

[Rex]

There seem to be a number of books on the textual history of Lucretius (e.g., David Butterfield), but I think I can sum up what I've seen here: we have no copies or fragments of De Rerum Natura prior to surviving Carolingian manuscripts. It is thought by many scholars that Lucretius left a mostly-finished rough draft on his death that was polished up by subsequent editors, but major interpolation, if it happened, occurred too early for our critical methods to detect.

[Theresa]

I'm a bit intimidated by all the Tea Shop responses to my inquiry about translations - you are all waaay too smart, well read, and educated for me. :)

Anyway, I listened to a relatively easy lntroduction to Epicureanism last night via BBC Radio 4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qf083

Good background information, There is also some discussion of Lucretius

There appear to be lots of other good episodes which might serve as an introduction or refresher for any future books we may dive into.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01gnn05

[Everyman]

Theresa wrote: "I'm a bit intimidated by all the Tea Shop responses to my inquiry about translations - you are all waaay too smart, well read, and educated for me. :).."

Who? Not I, that's for sure.

One of the great strengths of this group is that we're all on an intellectual journey together without worrying about whether some people are further along on that journey than others. I find great value in the comments, and especially the questions, both of those who have been immersed in these books for many years and of those who are coming to them for the first time with a host of great questions to ask.

The key is participation by everybody. Sometimes a question that somebody almost didn't ask because they thought it was too basic or stupid turns out to spark some of the best discussions. And almost always it's a question that others had but were reluctant to ask because they thought it wasn't intellectual enough.

The only wrong question is the unasked question.

[Everyman]

Theresa wrote: "Anyway, I listened to a relatively easy lntroduction to Epicureanism last night via BBC Radio 4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qf083"

Great resource. I haven't gotten to the discussion posts on Chapter 1 yet, but I expect that somebody has mentioned that Lucretius was indeed a follower of Epicurus.

[Borum]

Everyman wrote: "Theresa wrote: "I'm a bit intimidated by all the Tea Shop responses to my inquiry about translations - you are all waaay too smart, well read, and educated for me. :).."

Who? Not I, that's for sur..."

Where's the like button when you need it? Thanks for the encouragement! I felt a bit intimidated as well at first :-)

[Everyman]

Borum wrote: "Where's the like button when you need it? Thanks for the encouragement! I felt a bit intimidated as well at first :-) .."

I do understand the danger of this group at times sounding intimidating. I love the quality of the information and discussions so many great posters bring here, and I think we have some of the finest book discussions in Goodreads.

But I also am committed to encouraging new posters and those who are still feeling their way into the world of classic literature and philosophy. I really am sincere when I say that it is often those least familiar with reading these texts who come up with some of the best questions and observations, because they look at them from a fresh perspective. I wish I had a magic wand I could wave to make everybody realize how important every single member here is to the success of the group. As it is, all the moderators can do is make sure that our basic principles of inclusion and support are firmly in place, and hope that all our new posters, and all those who have lurked for awhile but haven't yet come forward as participants, will share their thoughts and make the group even better and stronger.

[Nemo]

Speaking of context, Cicero's Nature of the Gods provides an overview of what the sophisticated people of his time think of the gods. It's safe to say that Stoicism appeals to Cicero far more than Epicureanism.

[Theresa]

Everyman wrote: "Borum wrote: "Where's the like button when you need it? Thanks for the encouragement! I felt a bit intimidated as well at first :-) .."

I do understand the danger of this group at times sounding i..."

Thanks. I always feel a bit intimidated when I first come back here after an absence but once I dive into it I come to the surprising realization that I know more than I thought I did! Along with the new knowledge gained from others, this realization is always a pleasant discovery.

[toria (vikz writes)]

I've been a bit quiet lately and I am a bit behind on my reading of this text. But, I'm still here. I will be in the discussions as soon as I have read the first book \chapter. But, for now I will suggest a resource. if you wish to gain an introduction to philosophy, then check out this podcast http://historyofphilosophy.net/. It gives the history of philosophy and a enjoyable introduction to the ideas of various philosophers.

[Eric]

Victoria,

Thanks for the post! I am also behind in the reading. I am in the process of listening to History of Philosophy's (HOP) post on Democritus and Leucippus to give some broader context to the pluralist/monist debate. Hope to see your comments on other topics!

[Borum]

I needed some help in figuring out what Lucretius or Epicurus was trying to convey in De Rerum Natura, so I started reading 'The Art of Happiness'. I was surprised to find out that some ideas that I believed to belong to Epicurus may have been misinterpreted. (Of course, I might be wrong in my interpretation of THIS book as well...) I started reading Lucretius after reading the Swerve by Greenblatt and now I'm trying to get a firmer grasp on it through the discussion in our group and this book on Epicurus' art of happiness. It seems that he tried to overlook some faults in the physical and etymological theories in order to focus on the ethical impact of atomism. The book has a bit too much commentary and I don't recommend reading this before reading Lucretius but it might be of some help.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143...

[Wendel]

Borum wrote: "I needed some help in figuring out what Lucretius or Epicurus was trying to convey..."

The Strodach edition (Penguin) you mention is said to be rather opinionated - describing Epicureanism as a secular religion (and as Epicurus' surviving writings can hardly fill more than ca. 50 pages, this must be very much Strodach's book).

So you might want to throw in some modern Epicurean evangelizing:
* http://societyofepicurus.com/writings/
* http://elementalepicureanism.com
* http://www.epicurus.net/index.html

For basic information see:
* http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epi...
* http://www.iep.utm.edu/epicur/

[Everyman]

I was reading in Tennyson last night (I try to spend an hour or two with the poets every day), and ran across his poem "Lucretius" which I had never read before.

I don't think it's a particularly good poem, certainly not in my opinion one of his best (which are very, very good), but maybe others will think differently. And there is no evidence, apparently, that he was ever married, let alone the name of his wife if he had been. But literary license has supplied him with one named Lucilla, and Tennyson picks that up in spades.

http://www.monadnock.net/tennyson/luc...

[Borum]

Wendel wrote: "Borum wrote: "I needed some help in figuring out what Lucretius or Epicurus was trying to convey..."

The Strodach edition (Penguin) you mention is said to be rather opinionated - describing Epicur..."

You're right! It IS more of Strodach's book... not to mention the extremely dry style of Epicurus. and here I was wondering about the poetic style of Lucretius in presenting a scientific theory... Though it did help me to understand some less clear points of epicurism and provided some background knowledge, I didn't enjoy it that much...

[Wendel]

Borum wrote: "Wendel wrote: "Borum wrote: "I needed some help in figuring out what Lucretius or Epicurus was trying to convey...""

I found a copy of Tim O'Keefe Epicureanism - only leaved it through, but it looks promising. If I only had the time ...

PS: I read it, good introduction to the philosophy

[Wendel]

Another concise introduction to Lucretius: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/l...

[Wendel]

Some (scholarly) titles on the reception:

W.R. Johnson - Lucretius in the Modern World
Catherine Wilson Epicureanism at the Origins of Modernity
Gillespie & Hardie - The Cambridge Companion to Lucretius

Lucretius' main popularizer was Pierre Gassendi, so that's another approach:
Antonia Lolordo -Pierre Gassendi and the Birth of Early Modern Philosophy