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Ashes of the Tyrant
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Ashes of the Tyrant - Prologue and Chapters 1-3
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So, fair warning: I had a baby three weeks ago! My availability and focus are a little erratic. There is an excellent chance I will reply to your questions at 3 am while I'm rocking a fussy baby.
I'll peek at the chapters and see what interesting information I can bring up. One big, broad thing that's interesting about this book: I would say it's half a book I've been itching to write, and half a book that D&D requested for their story arc, in that I was handed specific elements and events that were predetermined. Obviously, with shared world fiction, there have been varying levels of involvement from other media and requests from TPTB. The previous title, Fire in the Blood, was almost entirely "my" book, while Brimstone Angels: A Forgotten Realms Novel had a lot more requests due to the connection with the Neverwinter game, the creation of the Campaign Guide, and R.A. Salvatore's titles. I'm curious about whether you feel like the level of "tying in" affects your read or if it's even noticeable. (Obviously, a question you can answer more easily when you're through).
First time post in the Sundered Book Club! You mentioned that you are writing in a shared world setting, Erin (I hope it's alright if I use your first name), I'm a little curious as to how much D&D let you explore the Dragonborn language. I love the Draconic terms and phrases used in Ashes, what I read so far is very impressive. That aside, though, I'm kind of get a 'Renly Baratheon' (Game of Thrones) feel from Mehen. If he comes back to clan Ver. than that would make him the new successor, right? And their sexuality has potentially led them into awkward circumstances, as proposed by Anala XD. Hopefully Mehen can survive in the Dragonborn's web of politics. I would really like him and the Tieflings to have a home in Djerad Thymar.
The insight that was given into the Dragonborn's previous history on another plane was also very well done. I kind of wish the plot to teleport back to their homeworld had come to fruition, would have been very interesting!
And just curious: when did you realize that Dahl and Farideh were destined (or so it would seem) to be together?
Also, book is great so far.
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Please do. Otherwise we inevitably get into the Mrs./Ms. discussion and this is so much simpler.
Draconic: They pretty much give me free rein. I think it's a combination of the fact that they know I care about this stuff pretty much more than anyone, the fact that I give them copious notes on what I do, and the fact that if they said no, I would want to discuss why and that would take forever. ;)
RenlySo I'm mildly ashamed to say I haven't gotten that far in ASOIAF, so I can't comment on the comparison specifically. But Mehen is not explicitly the heir. The matriarch/patriarch chooses their replacement, usually their scion, the offspring they're putting the most effort behind. But here, Pandjed was forced to name Anala as his successor, and so her choice of successor is her own. She could name Mehen, but traditionally she'd name one of her own children--and ftr, her scion is off-stage, securing clan business elsewhere. (Probably Djerad Kethendi, but don't quote me on that until the next book is out)
FariDahl: Always. So initially this wasn't supposed to be a series, it was a stand-alone book called Hell For Loveless Hearts, in which I would do the almost-impossible and write the sword & sorcery/romance that Ed Greenwood is always saying WotC should do. And that story was specifically about Dahl and Farideh, even though they were very different from who they wound up being in most cases. Of course, Farideh died at the end of that book.
I think it's sort of funny that after Lesser Evils people were always asking me if Dahl would come back because he felt like a Tam or a Raedra kind of character. It got very hard not to respond, "JUST YOU WAIT AND SEE!!!"
I've finished already (and I loved it, of course!), but here are some thoughts from this section:-Djerad Thymar is so cool! Is there any art of it out there? I would love a visual.
-I'm so happy to have Mira back in the story! She's one of my favorite characters from the series and I've been looking forward to seeing her again since I found out she would be in this one. She's so interesting to me
-Farideh and Dahl being separated is so sad and horrible. I can say I've known (or at least hoped) they would end up together since the end of Lesser Evils, and it's just awful to have them apart now that they've realized their feelings. I'm now finding it very difficult to have even conflicted sympathy for Lorcan like I have in earlier books haha
-I love Dahl's family! Sessaca especially is amazing, and I really like Bodhar too
-I miss Raedra
Erin,Hey :) Just joined and wanted to let you know that I finished Ashes of the Tyrant today. Love it, and I can't wait for the next one. Things are going to get a bit crazy in the Hells, I'm thinking. Anyway, I don't want to say too much in case people who haven't read it yet are following this thread, but thanks for another great book.
I do have one question for now: would you ever be comfortable with listing a glossary and pronunciation guide for Draconic? I need to make sure I'm saying the swear words properly. lol
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Todd: check out slushlush.com! I am on my phone so linking to specific pages is tricky, but there's a link in the pinned post that's a glossary. :)
Erin wrote: "Happy New Year, readers! I'm glad to be back for another discussion. So, fair warning: I had a baby three weeks ago! My availability and focus are a little erratic. There is an excellent chance I..."
Hello Erin,
I like the idea of "Tying in" it gives the feel of the characters being involved in the same world as everyone else. Personal opinion here: what i do love about fantasy is more of the specifics than the greater meta. By that i mean that i like the intricacies of people uncovering their abilities and strengths than the larger movement of armies and as long as we don't lose that personal touch with the characters we love i feel it's ok to Tie in.
Hello, Erin, long time fan here, first time poster. May I congratulate you on the new one, as well as the awesome book? I'm loving the story.You could tell in the prologue what parts were from D&D headquarters - the change in story direction feels almost forced in some cases. An abrupt shift without foreshadowing. Same thing happened with Adversary - the time jump was a necessity.
My favorite part of the story up to chapter 3 was actually right before chapter 1 started - I love the little bits of the ancestor stories you put in. Its a delicious crunchy bit. Makes me want to just see almost an entire book filled with these gems.
It was good to see Farideh and her little family go on together, though, the real star of the first chapter was Mehen. Seeing a focus the intricies of the dragonborn were quite curious. Seeing Mehen and his "Dad-instincts" applying to anyone he sees as a kid is a really good insight here.
Which leads us to Dahl in chapter 2. Between this and Mehen, I feel like this book could have been titled "The Adventurer Families Guide." The little drama between Dahl and his family is different than what I was expecting. All the kids teasing their uncle for praying made me laugh. And, yes, its awesome to see Mira again - I was missing her since she vanished from the second book. Her and Shar's little Chosen are two characters I really wanted to see more of. Unfortunately, I'm not as enamoured of Granny Sessaca as others are.
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Also, can we start an "Introductions" Thread somewhere--it seems like we have a lot of new people here which is totally awesome--so good to see the growth of interest in Forgotten Realms Novels especially when WotC is producing so few these days...
In any event, I have been very busy at work & have only finished the first two chapters--completely loving it! The dialog in this one seems even quicker and more snappy then I remember--is writing dialog getting easier as you get to know the characters or is there something else going on? I really do notice a very positive change in the way the characters talk directly to each other in this book--I have always enjoyed your ability to capture subtle conversational nuances, but Ashes seems even more playful then previous books--I am mostly thinking of the "no one is getting pregnant" conversation as well as the warnings the tieflings get about Dragonborn linguistic slants, insults, and criticism...likely my favorite part of the book....speaking of which...
HOW MANY MORE PAGES UNTIL THE RETURN OF THE FORGOTTEN REALMS GREATEST CHARACTER?!?
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And I feel like Sessaca is kind of the missing piece in that. But more on that later.
The ancestor stories were a lot of fun. Getting the voice just right was tricky.
I've intended there to be a sort of trend with the characters toward more directness and openness across the series. In Brimstone Angels, nobody really trusts each other. They care about each other, but Mehen cannot deal with his daughters growing up, Farideh thinks she's responsible for everyone, Havilar would rather ask forgiveness than permission, Lorcan doesn't count mortals, and Brin is pretty sure he has to be alone. But bit by bit, they've each had to confront that lack of trust and recognize it for what it is. By now, they're a lot more upfront about things. Mostly.
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I am going to create a thread for people to introduce themselves since we have so many people joining up.
First, congrats to Erin on your new baby! I just listened today to your interview on the D&D podcast where this came up (dated back to December) and was hoping that all went well.So! Some thoughts:
* I'd like to second Ashley and say that the descriptions of Djerad Thymar are fabulous and I would love to see some art. I did read through the description of Tymanther & Djerad Thymar in my 4e Realms campaign guide, and I'm excited to see it fleshed out in your book. Love the idea of looking up at the ceiling from within the city proper to see knights flying about on giant bats. Wonderful stuff.
* Echoing Micha, I've also really enjoyed Dahl's family reunion, even if I'm still agonized over his separation from Farideh. Big brothers bossing him around while all the while he's a friggin' Harper is fun stuff.
* I (so far) haven't found the demonlord storyline links to be jarring at all. I thought the investigation in chapter 3 was really fun. It was a sudden change in direction for the story, to be sure, but the ease with which Farideh's family slipped into that mode worked well for me. After two books of trying to find their stride following Sairche's time jump, they seem to have slotted back into old roles as mercenaries for hire on a new case (I'm sort of making assumptions here...I didn't read the first two books in this series). They seem positively thrilled to be back doing to something they know, rather than casting about and trying to find their way.
* And finally...I just love your imps. I think I said that during your last book club, but it's true again. Mot vs. this new one, Olla, is hilarious. "It's not godsbedamned Abyssal, Olla!"
* And whaaaaat is going on with Dumuzi's friend Zaroshni?? Doppleganger? Some kind of weird demon? I don't believe for a second that's really her.
Hi,thank you very much for your latest book. I usually read Fantasy novels to help me get to sleep and have some nice inconsequential dreams about happy elves and grumpy dwarves but that doesn´t work AT ALL with your books - just had to devour "Ashes of the Tyrant" without a care for the shadows under my eyes reaching my knee-caps the next day:D
So of course I already finished "Ashes of the Tyrant" and would love to discuss all of the awful cliffhangers we are left with at the end of the book. Like what the shitting hells is happening to Heathcli...erm Lorcan?? I´ll have to wait, of course, for the others readers to finish the book....and -stlarn it!- one whole year for the next book. What a pain...
First off, Congrats on the new baby. May the child hang on to that 18 CHA. I love Djerad Thymar as described in your book. I may have to 'barrow' it for a home campaign. This is also the first book where a reference to a current D&D storyline didn't take me out of the book. I liked it.
I can't tell you all how much I have been looking forward to working through another one of Erin's books with everyone. Erin's books are always a joy, but getting to talk through them too? This is a rare pleasure.A welcome to all of the new people, and on with the reading!
Prologue:
* Laying out the tomb, its place in recalling Vayemniri history while setting the stage for the portal through the actions of the brash and willful young ones? Nice. Very nice.
Chapter 1:
* Use of the preceding framing text we saw for the different parts in Fire. I liked this then, I still like it now. It really does give a sense of the narrative continuity that I enjoyed in the Realms (before the 4E time-jump insanity).
* The focus on Mehen, rather than Fari and Havi, was really refreshing. In the past, I feel like many of Mehen's actions have been presented from the perspective of the girls, rather than Mehen himself. His experience of DJerad Thymar is obviously going to be different to theirs and so having input from all three works nicely for me.
* I got to the end of the Chapter and read the final passage and saw the name maurezhi and couldn't help but quietly think: "Oh... tluin, we are right in the naed now!" I wondered exactly who this Tanar'ri was wearing. Of course we got the answer to that question in Chapter 3.
Chapter 2:
* Dahl's family being from a wonderfully "average" background actually makes me appreciate him more. I have had an on/off liking for the character since he first appeared, but seeing him having experiences that I can directly relate to makes me more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with regards to his recent epiphany.
* Dahl being unable to tell anyone about his bargain with Lorcan? Mean. I really hope it comes back and bites our favourite Cambion in the posterior section though. If it does, I wonder if this is Erin getting revenge for having to play as him.
* Mira is back. YAY!
* Granny is awesome. End of.
Chapter 3:
* I enjoyed the contrast between seeing the intricacies of the Vayemniri city-bastion and its society through the eyes of outsiders (Fari, Havi and Brin) and through Mehen's. I would also add my voice to the call for more official art of the place.
* The murders look like an interesting setup... but the imps were as enjoyable as ever, as was seeing steel-stomach competition going on between Havi and Brin.
* Zaroshni... Ah, so this is where our maurezhi went. And to smell dretch? Interesting. Two types of tanar'ri. I guess this is what Erin was referring to as tie-ins (seeing as someone else mentioned Demon Lords) but so far it doesn't seem too intrusive as long as it does actually weave itself into the story rather than feeling like a contrivance.
My view of tie-ins might be a little skewed due to the way my history with the Realms has been structured. I started out purely as a Realms reader, I later ran a 2-year campaign there, and then since my move to Japan I have become a reader again. It is a strange position to be in. However, after the transition to 5E I haven't really been following much of the over-arching storyline. This is because WotC's focus has seemed on using it as a tool to directly drive module development rather than the narrative being a thing in and of itself... that then allows for both the novels and games to be set within it.
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I really really really hope you will still join us in these threads, but I understand that it takes a lot to not talk about all the best parts until we reach that point.
I -did- finish the book, but I'm kind of a speed reader, so I always read a book a second time, to go back through and catch all the little details I miss on my first time.
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If you haven't seen it, I have a post up on slushlush.com which has a glossary of Draconic words from the book. It might come in handy! http://slushlush.com/2015/10/lonely-p...
Also, I meant to point out before that the faces on the map corners are the clan elders of Verthisathurgiesh, Kepeshkmolik, Shestandeliath, and Yrjixtilex, of whom you've met three at this point (Anala, Narghon, and Geshthax). Matriarch Vardhira appears later.
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Erin wrote: "Jon: I'm impressed you recognized the maurezhi! I hadn't heard of it before now and gambled on a mention hoping it wouldn't ring too many bells too early. Hopefully that won't drive you too crazy a..."Honestly it is more to do with my odd introduction to the Realms rather than being some kind of Demonic Loremaster (ohohoho).
I said I started out as a Realms reader... but that only came after my introduction to the Realms through the CRPG Baldur's Gate in 1998. That game almost ruined my first year at university! Since I had no gaming group at that point I got into the source-books and novels in a big way. It was mostly Ed and Elaine's works, so I guess that explains my love for The Seven and Elves. Demons weren't really a matter of interest until...
... Baldur's Gate 2. In that game there is a location called the Watcher's Keep where, at two opposite ends of a maze, there is a group of Tanar'ri and a group of Baatezu. There was much mention of the Blood War. I looked up information on all of the demons and devils there, which included the maurezhi.
I haven't studied them since and so I have about 10 years worth of dust layered on those memories... which is a very round-about (sorry) way of saying that you have nothing to fear with regards to me going all lore-lawyer on you!
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Books mentioned in this topic
Fire in the Blood (other topics)Brimstone Angels (other topics)
Remember...no spoilers...so if you have read the whole book please don't give away what is coming in the next section. I will create a thread for people who have read the whole book tonight or tomorrow.
Happy Reading
Chad