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The Voyage Out
The Voyage Out - Spine 2016
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Discussion - Week Two - The Voyage Out - Chapter VIII - XIV
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So I'm curious to hear what other people believe is the overarching theme of this book. Is it a coming of age story? Is it a story about love, or is it friendship? Is it about the tenuousness of human relationships? The nature of communication, how it often fails to connect people but they seek to connect anyways? Is it a study of the contrasts between youth and experience? Is it about the power of literature and music? Is it about Edwardian England? I like how Woolf encompasses so much in this novel; I'm surprised at how the narrative is so pliant, yet I feel hooked and want to continue reading.
Mod
Yes, all of those things... plus...
I agree wholeheartedly. So many themes, so many quotable passages......
There appears to be some sort of "academics/artists-vs-socialites" theme going on (first on the boat, then at the hotel). I'm considering that the major theme of the work, with the minor themes serving more as acutely-observed character studies. Won't know for certain until the end, of course.So far, my favorite Woolf novel. Have to admit I'm not too keen on her stuff, generally speaking. To the Lighthouse was flung across the room at least twice when it was assigned-reading.
I'm not sure that there is a "major" theme. I think it's about life and how people feel and communicate, and about fleeting moments of sadness or elation.
I think there is also something in there about how a person's attitudes affects their perceptions. The open-minded seemed to have much more interesting lives.
"Sheila wrote: "So I'm curious to hear what other people believe is the overarching theme of this book. Is it a coming of age story? Is it a story about love, or is it friendship? Is it about the te..."It seems to me that she is already playing with memoir/biography in contrast to biography/hagiography as her father wrote them -- which she will especially toy with in Orlando.
One of the things I love about Woolf is that she can capture so much without being overly verbose. I don't think there is a "major" theme either. I think she is exploring the nature of relationships. I think Casceil is on to something in her comment about the open-minded. I'm really enjoying it and am looking forward to the next section.
Mkfs wrote: "...To the Lighthouse was flung across the room at least twice when it was assigned-reading. ..."Mkfs -- I'll be impolite and ask "why?" -- if you recall about something that may well have happened some time ago. I ask to attempt to understand why some people seem so put off by Woolf and/or find her difficult. I may not always "understand," but she always intrigues. (I started with A Room of One's Own, so that may have unduly influenced my perspective of her writing. I have come to feel she shortchanged there the ingenuity of women who truly want to write, but each novel I have read explores male--female relationships in ways quite different than, say, Jane Austen (smile). )
I don't know why Mkfs threw To the Lighthouse across the room, but I can sympathize. The first time I tried to read it, I was a college freshman, it was required reading, it was very hard to make much sense out of it, and I kept falling asleep reading it. It took two more tries, another 40+ years, and reading it with this group a couple of years ago before I came to appreciate the book, which I now agree is a masterpiece.
I'm planning on reading To The Lighthouse next month. I'm hoping for no wall throws :)
Lily wrote: "I'll be impolite and ask "why?" -- if you recall about something that may well have happened some time ago. I ask to attempt to understand why some people seem so put off by Woolf and/or find her difficult"I recall being rather disgusted with the inability of the characters to make any actual progress in attaining said lighthouse, and was not interested in their mental preoccupations of the meantime.
At some point I'll give it another go. I probably have more patience, now -- and not having it dumped on you as part of a survey course probably makes a bit of a difference. Most reading is improved by actually wanting to do it. Funny, that.
Casceil and Mkfs -- thanks for your comments! As a science/engineering type rather than a humanities type, I never experienced the "required reading" aspects and encountered much of quality literature much later (always read a lot, but just read -- used to say, to prove my [radical?] ideas wrong). Still didn't (don't) always understand, but probably had/have more patience with that than would have earlier. I find Woolf takes me to many levels, much as Sheila lays out and as Jim suggests is only a start. I am curious here as to what we will see if/when we look at
Melymbrosia
-- how much did Woolf self-censor?
Lily wrote: "Casceil and Mkfs -- thanks for your comments! As a science/engineering type rather than a humanities type, I never experienced the "required reading" aspects and encountered much of quality literat..."I often envy "science types" for their access to literature. A friend once told me she does not understand everything in a novel, nor see some of the references, but she goes with the flow. A book works its magic, at least if you're in the hands of a good writer. It's like a lot of poetry, which defies line by line explanation.
Am I jumping ahead here when I briefly mention Melymbrosia? If so, skip this.:
I have long admired Virginia Woolf, I'm very interested in how writers research, how they arrive at the finished product, so Melymbrosia seems like a goldmine, yet I'm quite apprehensive about tackling it. Having looked at some snippets of the introduction to get some idea, I think it may come as quite a disturbing shock, turn a lot of things topsy turvy, I don't know. It was, after all, her very first plunge into a full-sized novel and also she was in a disturbed frame of mind. It has been said that no writer would wish his/her first draft-novel to come to light.
Mod
Melymbrosia should be an interesting look at early Woolf, however, for the sake of this discussion, I'd like everyone to refocus on Chapter VIII- XIV of The Voyage Out for now....
Lily wrote: "Casceil and Mkfs -- thanks for your comments! As a science/engineering type rather than a humanities type, I never experienced the "required reading" aspects and encountered much of quality literat..."One of the nice things about studying English is that lots of the work involves just lying on the sofa reading a book.
Mkfs wrote: "I recall being rather disgusted with the inability of the characters to make any actual progress in attaining said lighthouse, and was not interested in their mental preoccupations of the meantime...."Reaching or not reaching the lighthouse never bothered me. But now, I think I have hit a similar place with TVO. I feel as if I am reading a story with little plot (action) where I am asked to engage myself in the subtleties of the feelings of each of the characters involved. Amanda (@9) suggests Woolf is exploring the nature of relationships. I'm having trouble according Woolf that generality. My own reaction is that she does explore the nature of a fairly specific (sub)set of human/social relationships probably encountered within the the Bloomsbury Group.
Yet a certain discipline arises in observing so closely the feelings of the "other" and speculating on which are universal, which derive from the experiences of certain cultural and social (class?) expectations. (It may be a bit of a non-sequitur, but see Aminatta Forna here: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015... "Literature is about nuance and understanding the intricacies of life." ... "The way of literature is to seek universality. Writers try to reach beyond those things that divide us: culture, class, gender, race."... "They are community-orientated cultures, in which 'we' takes precedence over 'I', societies in which people live in and take care of their extended families, and relationships are nurtured and strong. Perhaps as a result both societies are less goal-orientated, more concerned with consensus and quality of life. "..."Now contrast those findings with the UK, according to Hofstede a much more equal society, but one in which people are more likely to look after number one and are goal-orientated and driven by personal success." ..."Just because things look a certain way on the surface, doesn’t mean that’s the way they really are. What the best novels and novelists do is to offer a different way of seeing."...."The writer of fiction says to the reader only this: come with me on a journey of the imagination and I will try to show you something you have not seen before. This is the gift of the writer to the reader. The reader’s gift is to bring to this alchemy their own imagination and their own experiences.")
I cannot see Rachel being part of the Bloomsbury group. Helen maybe. But Rachel lacks any experience, any confidence and any independence. She would have no understanding of what was happening in a soffisticated (spelling ??!!) group like this. Wouldn't even understand that she was being hit on.Rachel basically does what she is told and reads what she is told to read, even if it is boring. She is basically a child who hasn't grown into an adult with her own mind. She would be demolished
in 5 minutes by that group.
Helen on the other hand would have the time of her life.
Anne wrote: "She [Rachel] would be demolished in 5 minutes by that group [the Bloomsbury Set]...."Hmm... I sense parallels between Rachel's growth and Virginia's own adolescent experiences, ones that eventually allowed Virginia to claim her place in that set, however sometimes fitfully. Not necessarily blatantly obvious parallels, but ones of awkward introduction to sexuality and of naive assumptions about the world that found themselves rubbed against more sophisticated ones. (My impressions arise from Jane Dunn's Virginia Woolf and Vanessa Bell, which touches on the difficulties of lack of motherly guidance, as well as other familial dysfunctions.)
Lily wrote: "Anne wrote: "She [Rachel] would be demolished in 5 minutes by that group [the Bloomsbury Set]...."Hmm... I sense parallels between Rachel's growth and Virginia's own adolescent experiences, ones ..."
Hmm, also....Rachel is developing into her own person, and does not necesssarily fall in with what others are doing or saying. Similarly, Virginia is honing her writing style, which is naturally in a much more unformed and almost chaotic state in this book. It is a coming of age for both of them!
Coming of age novels are not for everyone, although we have all been there (I think). There is a certain impatience about going through it all again. What a writer can do is choose an original angle, introduce interesting characters, give a sense of place, link it to outside events, however tenuously - any or all of those things. Above all, write beautifully.
Lily wrote: "Reaching or not reaching the lighthouse never bothered me. But now, I think I have hit a similar place with TVO. I feel as if I am reading a story with little plot (action) ..."Same here (chapter 19). There is lots of talking and lots of thinking and not a whole lot of actual doing. Having one of the characters then complain that women only talk and never do demonstrates either that Woolf has a very dry sense of humor and a capacity for self-mockery or, more likely, thst she doesn't realize she is perpetuating the problem.
As with To The Lighthouse, this is proving to be a fine examination of the inner life of people who do not interest me in the least.
Mod
So sorry to hear that Woolf has impinged on your happiness yet again.
Well, I don't hate it. Having the characters themselves complain about the boredom certainly takes some of the sting out. I believe it is Hirst who complains that nothing happens in the hotel, nor when they leave it on excursions -- which is odd, as he should be able to just set up shop anywhere with a book and a pen.
@22Mkfs wrote: [unless] "...Woolf has a very dry sense of humor and a capacity for self-mockery ..."We will see some of that capacity for self-mockery in the character of Rachel --e.g., p.195 (view spoiler)
I do enjoy VW's dry, sardonic humor, sometimes easy to glide right over, especially when it fits seamlessly into a descriptive passage.
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Books mentioned in this topic
VIRGINIA WOOLF & VANESSA BELL (other topics)Melymbrosia (other topics)
A Room of One’s Own (other topics)
Orlando (other topics)
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