The Grishaverse discussion
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The Prince
Nikolai is surely my pick for Alina. When a love triangle, or in this case a love "square," presents itself, the choice that is made should always represent more than just a romance. In this case, they each represent a path Alina can take with her connection to her power. LB does a great job at presenting Alina's options very clearly. The Darkling represents a total succumbing to her power... Alina allowing her power to own her. Mal represents a total suppression of her power... Alina reverting back to the sickly, mediocre girl she was before. Nikolai represents a total disciplining of her power... Alina making her power her own, and embracing what she can do, controlling it, wielding it.
For this reason I have always seen Nikolai as the clear right choice for Alina. I like Mal. I even like the Darkling sometimes. But if Mal is white, and the Darkling is black, then Nikolai travels very comfortably in the vast gray between. He would help Alina push boundaries while also helping her resist becoming a monster.
Jessica wrote: "Nikolai is surely my pick for Alina. When a love triangle, or in this case a love "square," presents itself, the choice that is made should always represent more than just a romance. In this case, ..."That's a very interesting way of looking at it. I looooooooove me a villain so I'm for Darklina but I would think it would be very sweet if she ended up with Nikolai.
I wouldn't necessarily want her to be with Nikolai romantically because I don't know if they have serious chemistry, but I do think that as really good friends and business partners, they would be great.
I like Nikolai as a character and friend. But love interest? No. Not happy that he is in love with Alina. Just makes me even more heartbroken. He would have been amazing as just a friend. :)
Jessica wrote: "Nikolai is surely my pick for Alina. When a love triangle, or in this case a love "square," presents itself, the choice that is made should always represent more than just a romance. In this case, ..."I really like your perspective, its a great way to look at the situation and I totally agree. Nikolai is definitely my favorite of the three guys. Nikolai all the way. I am afraid they might crash and burn in a relationship though, but here is to hoping.
Jessica wrote: "Nikolai is surely my pick for Alina. When a love triangle, or in this case a love "square," presents itself, the choice that is made should always represent more than just a romance. In this case, ..."This is incredibly well-thought out. I never thought of this before. I always thought Mal would keep her grounded but you're right, he might ultimately keep her isolated from her power. And the Darkling sucks the big one, so no way. He's evil, and nothing will save him from what he's done. So Nicolai would be the "best" alternative. However, I just want to put out there that Alina might not end up with anyone. Just a thought. Who knows what Bardugo will do...
This is just making me so sad. I hate seeing all the hate that Mal gets. It isn't fair :( Because I do NOT think he is trying to keep her from her powers. He is afraid of her powers. And I am too. Is that so wrong? :\
I agree that Nikolai is someone who would be best for her, as in give her what she needs, like how it says in S&S that "She would rise". I think Nikolai is the only one who would be able to help her "rise." But I just don't know how they would be in a relationship.
I like Nikolai. He's a good main/secondary character that brings comic relief and is also a important part of the story itself. However, I don't see anything serious going on between him and Alina. We know that's just to give us some ship wars :P And another option for Alina to CONSIDER since Mal is not being very suportive. (view spoiler) But that's how it's supposed to be. Nikolai will look like the best option, but I know ultimately she'll either:a)die
b)end up alone because her path is a lonely one and yadda yadda
c)kiss Mal (x100)
Nikolai will live. Someone has to end up on the throne and I don't foresee that being Alina. :P
WinterRose wrote: "Nikolai will live. Someone has to end up on the throne and I don't foresee that being Alina. :P"I agree completely. He will live.
I can't imagine anyone but Nikolai being on the throne unless the darkling takes over everything for good which probably won't happen
If Alina cannot make it with the Darkling, I will support her to pursue the relationship with the Prince, Nikolai. He may not be a Grisha and doesn't have any special power, but he's kind, smart, witty, mature, and not forgetting the fact that he's hot! that's more than a girl could ask for in a man, right?Mal, dear. I'm very sorry I can't force myself to support you to be with Alina. This is for your own goodness, dear.
Nikolai is not my favorite of the 3 but he represents the happy medium in so many ways, not only power-wise but also in how he and Alina relate to one another. So far, he doesn't try to control or change Alina, but merely supports her and offers very good advice. They become good friends while Alina is in The Little Palace.
I guess the obvious problem between them is trust. Alina knows he's a good politician: always pretending to be the person others wants him to be, in order to gain something. She's trying not to forget this but at the same time, he's so easy to be with (in comparison to Mal or the Darkling).
At the end of S&S, when he refuses to kiss her, it does seem like he's starting to be more honest and also he shows that he's got feelings for her.
Oh damn! I think Nikolai starts to compete with the Darkling to dominate my mind (and my heart?) too XD
Nikolai, is the best Prince I have ever met. Besides Max from The Selection....
Ahem. Have you read The Iron Fey? Prince Ash..<3But Prince Zuko from ATLA will always be my favorite prince. He starts off an antagonist (and he's one of Leigh's favorite characters woo!) but ends up being a hero after an amazing story arc.
WinterRose wrote: "Ahem. Have you read The Iron Fey? Prince Ash..<3 "Another Ash fan here )) He's on my top book boyfriends list.
As for Nikolai, I find him a fun character, but I don't really care for him as a love interest.
And what is ATLA? Sorry for my ignorance.
*swoons* Looooove Ash. Julie writes awesome characters.Nikolai reminds me a little of a Adrian Ivashkov meets Jack Sparrow lol.
ATLA = Avatar the Last Airbender. It's an animated show that features people who bend the four elements (similar to Grisha!). It has a huge fandom and it's amazing. You'd think a show on Nickolodeon wouldn't be anything special but it is. Leigh's a huge fan too.
@ WinterRose: thanks for clarifying. Now I'm going to think that the Grisha trilogy is a love child of Deathless and this Avatar show.
You are totally right about the airbender aspect of the books. Never thought about it that way...
It's such a great show, I'm still crazy about it after what? Six years? Leigh makes a lot of references to AtLa on tumblr and twitter... I think she met the creators at that convention with S&B, AtLa, Walking Dead, etc. It'd be so cool if she got some ideas from them :)
Marianna wrote: "Nikolai, is the best Prince I have ever met. Besides Max from The Selection...."I'm sorry y'all but I have to respond to this: Thank you for another Selection fan out there, and now that I think about it I really hope Nikolai can really learn to be his true self around Alina if their relationship ever wants to go like anywhere (Which I really, really want it to:))
Lena wrote: "Marianna wrote: "Nikolai, is the best Prince I have ever met. Besides Max from The Selection...."I'm sorry y'all but I have to respond to this: Thank you for another Selection fan out there, and ..."
Me too, it's either him or the Darkling which i would be ok with.
I have to agree that Nikolai is a great prince character. Usually, princes don't get their hands dirty by actually engaging in combat or adventures,but Nikolai certainly does. He's not just sitting around looking handsome and giving orders from his throne. So...I'd appreciate if Alina ended up with him or the Darkling :)
Whether she ends up with Nikolai or the Darkling, she deserves to be Queen. And I don't see how Mal fits into the equation of her being an all-powerful ruler of Ravka. Alina MUST be Queen!!!
Melanie wrote: "Whether she ends up with Nikolai or the Darkling, she deserves to be Queen. And I don't see how Mal fits into the equation of her being an all-powerful ruler of Ravka. Alina MUST be Queen!!!"yes because so many men had tried to make her a Queen. Who are those men? none other than the Darkling and Nikolai. Although the Darkling has the greater role in it. That's why she has to end up with either the Darkling or Nikolai.
For Mal, I think he fits the role of a best friend or a brother for Alina, not for her spouse or anything intimate since he already said that all the situation in s&s doesn't go well with him. That time Alina is not the real Queen yet. If Alina really becomes a queen in the future, which will add her burden much more than before, how can Mal survive those if he can't even do what he must willingly in s&s? surely Alina doesn't need a whiny-unsupportive husband in order to do all her Queen jobs
@Meida very well said!! She definitely needs to end up with the darkling or Nikolai, since they both would fit as consort to Queen Alina and both have the mutual interest of wanting what's best for Ravka. But PLEASE can she drop Mal like a hot potato already!!He can still be her friend if she was Queen but i feel like he would still be resentful of her position of authority and wouldn't fit in well. Although maybe Mal has some powers of his own that make him a unique tracker. That could completely change the outcome of the story.
WinterRose wrote: "Ahem. Have you read The Iron Fey? Prince Ash..<3But Prince Zuko from ATLA will always be my favorite prince. He starts off an antagonist (and he's one of Leigh's favorite characters woo!) but end..."
aah Prince Ash, my old love... if only he hadn't been too obedient with Meghan
Jessica wrote: "ATLA?"Avatar: The Last airbender :)
I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one who actually do fit together with Alina. In my eyes, Mal is the best character in the books.
Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one who actually do fit together with Al..."I'm sorry for pointing out the truth, as I believe you already know yourself, how's Mal doing in the whole s&s. However, this doesn't mean I hope for the worst for Mal, like his death for instance. No, because I understand that Mal and Alina need each other to support their lives. I also understand if Mal finds it so hard to support Alina's new situation and does some bad things to release his own stress.
However, I predicted someone like Alina is meant for a greater role in life. Greater role means greater responsibility and burden. If Mal is destined to survive with Alina till the end, he has to adjust himself accordingly, like it or not. If he can accept and support Alina properly in the future, well I'm sure everything will be just fine for both of them.
Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one who actually do fit together with Al..."I know it's hard to accept sometimes, but it just comes down to not everyone is going to feel the same way. In your eyes, Mal is the best and that's okay. But not everyone thinks so. And that's okay too.
You gotta deal with it!
(Okay I'm just kidding that was an ATLA/LoK reference. lol If anyone got that ten million points to you.)
"Greater role means greater responsibility and burden.""
Definitely agree. Not to mention that being the love interest of the hero or heroine is TOUGH AS CRAP. I mean really, not everyone is cut out for that. One thing I loved about Ginny Weasley was that when Harry told her he had to break up with her so Voldemort wouldn't use her against him, and he had to save the world, she didn't throw a fit. She accepted the role he chose to play. Not just any girl could do that.
Mal might not be fit for the burden/responsibilities/life that comes with being Alina's love interest/partner/whatever you want to call it. I don't mean that in a bad way by any means; it's not a normal relationship and he may not be cut out for it.
Meida wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one who actually do fit t..."I do get what you mean. I just don't see it that way. I don't see it as you all say; that Mal is less worth than Alina. Because I don't think he is. And I don't blame him for what he did in S&S; I probably would have done the same. Alina really, really hurt him. He as always been there for her and done anything for her. He still does; despote fearing her powers. And I do too. I am afraid of how she will control her powers. I did not like how she craved more in S&S. She is changing. And that is not always for the best. So, just saying that I understand Mal the most :)
WinterRose wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one who actually do fit t..."lol, I know that not everyone feels the same :) I just wish you wouød all stop saying it all the time, hih :p hurts my heart a little.
Lois wrote: "lol at that LoK reference, WinterRose"YES SOMEONE GOT IT! :D Love me some Korra.
WinterRose wrote: "Lois wrote: "lol at that LoK reference, WinterRose"YES SOMEONE GOT IT! :D Love me some Korra."
I have yet to watch Korra :) Hopefully soonish ;p
Oh you must! It's very different than ATLA because the world is more advanced and the characters are older, but I love it. Makorra for life.
Carina wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one wh..."Haven't you ever thought that maybe you're hurting others' feelings too? Sure, you can say anything you want about the Darkling, Mal, or any of the other characters because this is, in fact, a discussion but stop playing the victim here. You aren't the only one in this discussion who has feelings.
And please stop hunting for people who dislike Mal in the threads and trying to convince them otherwise. It's exhausting having to face a Malina shipper after expressing your love for the Darkling.
Don't take this the wrong way, okay, I'm just speaking in behalf of the people in this group who might be getting annoyed
I honestly can’t see Alina and Mal together, or at least not as lovers. They simply do not want the same things in their lives, and there is no middle road. Either Mal has to give up his dream, of him and Alina going back to what they once were, where Alina will be degraded to a simple housemother, spending her life keeping house, and raising children, which I think would slowly kill Alina inside. She is simply made for greater things than that, and she would forever regret her choice, if she gave up everything to be with Mal. I believe their relationship will fall apart, because either way, they would both have given up too much of themselves, and will come to resent the other for this.
Lois wrote: "Carina wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is ..."Sure, I get what you say. But I'm not "hunting anyone down." I'm just expressing my opinion, like everyone else on here. I'm not playing the victim. I'm just saying things the way they are. On just about all the threads here, people are talking about how much they dislike Mal. I'm allowed to comment on that. And it's not like I go on every thread and say how much I dislike the Darkling. Which I could have. But I don't, because I understand that people do like him. I'm just saying that people don't always have to say how much they dislike Mal. Think we should all just talk about the characters we do like, and not say anything about those we don't like :) So no, I don't think I'm hurting anyone's feelings. I'm not trying to. Because as I said, I'm not saying bad things about any character. I spoke a little about the Darkling days ago, but haven't said anything about him since.
Speaking on behalf of the people who might be getting annoyed. I commented because I was getting annoyed at people always talking bad about Mal. Does that make me a bad person?
Tasha wrote: "I honestly can’t see Alina and Mal together, or at least not as lovers. They simply do not want the same things in their lives, and there is no middle road. Either Mal has to give up his dream, of ..."I understand this. But I also don't think Mal wants Alina to go "back to being that." :) I just think he is afraid, and I understand why.
Carina wrote: "Meida wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the only one who act..."The thing is Mal is not the only one who is at big confusing-time here. Alina is also drowned in her own confusion. She is confused with how to adjust her life with her new role and how to make Mal accept it too. Then, there is also her confusion with her feeling with the Darkling and... I don't know with Nikolai(?).
With the Darkling, I know she wants to be with him too, because of her power, of which I suspected always demands her to be close to its equal, which is the Darkling's. And I know Alina actually worry about her craving for power. I think the main problem is with her power, and the only one who can help Alina to control it is none other than the Darkling, obviously.
While with Nikolai, he doesn't try to force ALina to suppress her power or something like that, instead he tried to build a bridge for Alina to be able to use her power wisely.
Tasha wrote: "I honestly can’t see Alina and Mal together, or at least not as lovers. They simply do not want the same things in their lives, and there is no middle road. Either Mal has to give up his dream, of ..."\yeah this is also why It's hard for me to support Malina.
Meida wrote: "Carina wrote: "Meida wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my eyes, Mal is the o..."This is true. Alina is very confused, as you say. And I want her to finally decide what she wants. If she wants to be with Mal. Or if she wants to be like the Darkling, and be with him. Or if she wants to rule as a Queen with Nikolai. I'm interested in seeing what she chooses. I'm hoping for Mal, but I do understand why she could choose any of the others.
I just feel like everyone is saying that Mal is already gone from her choices. And that isn't true. The way I see it, Mal is the one who truly loves her. The Darkling wants her power. I'm not sure yet what Nikolai wants. Guess we'll see in Ruin and Rising :)
Carina wrote: "Lois wrote: "Carina wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "Carina wrote: "I am a bit sick and tired of you all ALWAYS talking bad about Mal and saying he doesn't fit with Alina. As I see that as lies :D In my ..."Oh, honey, I know you're not trying to hurt anyone's feelings and neither are the others. It's just that here, on the internet, you'll never really know how your words might come off to some people.
I meant "hunting anyone down" figuratively.
Well, no matter how many times you tell them to stop expressing their indifference towards a character, they will just keep coming so it's better to just shrug off their comments and not let it get to you because you're entitled to your own opinion. This isn't directed to you, but also to others who have a hard time hearing negative comments about a character they love.
I like Mal, don’t get me wrong, but I think both Alina, and Mal would be happier just as friends. He is an amazing friend, not such a good boyfriend. And I totally agree with you Meida, the darkling is the only one who can help her control her power.
“I took a breath. “Your highness—”
“Nikolai,” he corrected. “But I’ve also been known to answer to ‘sweetheart’ or ‘handsome.”
“I want to kiss you,” Nikolai said. “But I won’t. Not until you’re thinking of me instead of trying to forget him.”
“Watch yourself, Nikolai,” Mal said softly. “Princes bleed just like other men.”
Nikolai plucked an invisible piece of dust from his sleeve. “Yes,” he said. “They just do it in better clothes.”
I just love Nikolai. He's cunning, witty, and deadly smart. The end doesn't just justify the means with Nikolai; it DRIVES the means unapologetically; whatever it takes. His relationship with ethics is cordial, at best, but he is moral. He is good, if only in a loose sense of the word, but he IS good.