"Team of Rivals" Feb 2016 CHUNKY read discussion and schedule

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I wondered about the relationship of Kate and her father too. She did seem to step in as almost a wife figure in society for him, but maybe wives in society back then were not considered sexual partners, and sex was more private, so this relationship would not have been even questioned then.

[Irene]

It was not that she played the role of hostess and ran his household, but the intimacy they seemed to share. He seemed to rely on her for more than social duty and almost seemed jealous of her boyfriend/husband.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Finished! :-)

[Rebecca]

Awesome Sheila.

[Irene]

Also finished.
I wonder what might have been different had Lincoln not been shot, but had completed his second term and presided over reconstruction.

Really felt sorry for Mary burying three of four children and a

What did you like most or least about this book?husband.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I really enjoyed the book, and feel I have a much better understanding of who Lincoln was as a man than I did before.

It is tragic that he was killed so early in his second term, because I think he could have done great things with the reconstruction, given his moderate attitude, not wanting to "punish" any of the Confederates, etc.

I feel sorry for Mary too. What a tragic life, and the only surviving child she became estranged from after he committed her to a mental institution. Sad.

I am amazed that both Seward and his son were able to survive the attack on them, with how severe their injuries were, and with the limitations of medical care in those days.

I find myself actually now wanting to learn more about Ulysses S. Grant. He seems like a very interesting, smart, and unique man in this book, so now I have actually got myself a few books on him, and the memoirs of his wife (Julia Dent Grant), as I want to learn more about them.

[Irene]

How ironic that Seward and his son survive while his wife and daughter die.

I also grew in understanding of and respect for Lincoln. He had an incredible nack for managing people.

[Rebecca]

I agree Irene. I don't know how he had the patience through all the quarrels and struggles his cabinet members had within all the time. I was happy tha he was close family friends with the Stanton family. I am glad I decided to hand in there with this one. I really learned a lot more about Lincoln, he was more than the man who wrote the Emancipation Proclamation. I am on chapter 21 so I will be finishing soon. Thank you Irene and Sheila for your comments.

[Irene]

Thank you all for reading with me. I have been wanting to tackle this for some time. I needed the support of others to ttake it on. I am very glad I read it and want to read more by DKG.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I have had this on my shelf for literally YEARS Irene, so thank you for nominating and leading, as it was what I needed to be willing to tackle it!

[Viola]

Sorry, I couldn't keep up. I had other reading commitments for my in-real-life book club. So I'm just now getting back into this book. I'll post my thoughts after I'm done, but that might take a couple of weeks as I'm only half way through.

[Irene]

No problem. I'd love to read your thoughts whenever you get to them.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Yes, Viola, please post your thoughts as you take your time reading. I'd love to hear your opinion!

[Viola]

What format did you all read this book? I read almost exclusively from the library. So I started this book on Kindle, and then that expired. I put myself back on the wait list for the Kindle version, but it's rather long. I was able to score the hardcover book version from the library. Surprisingly (or maybe not surprisingly), there is no wait list for the HUGE book. It's a pain to lug around.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I had a print copy of the book, and yes, it is a big one! LOL

[Rebecca]

I read the paperback. I agree about lugging it around. I finished it late last night. When I got to the last 3 chapters I knew I was getting to the assassination and I was getting sad. I was surprised that I felt so emotional at time during the book especially when I read about him spending so much time with the troops and how depressed and sad he would become. I kept wishing that our politicians today would act for the good of America instead of their self serving interests and images. I am so glad that I stuck with this one. While it is lengthy and tedious at times the wealth of perspective and insight as to Lincoln and him as a President were very valuable and inspiring to me. I think you will be glad in the end Viola. I also look forward to your thoughts, you always give such thoughtful reflections.

[Viola]

Hi all,

I've finally finished this massive book, and I find myself immensely sad that he was assassinated. I'm surprised because well, obviously, I knew what was coming, but also I'm surprised by how much I grew to really like and admire Lincoln as the book went along. I was very skeptical of his out-sized hero status when I began, and I now come away as a believer that he does deserve all the effusive praise.

I wanted to go back to answer some discussion questions:

What did you make of Lincoln's slowness to deal with McClullen? Most historians blame the prolonged progress of the Civil War on his refusal to attack during those early years, resulting in countless deaths and serious wounds. Lincoln's contemporaries realized that McClullen was not serving the Union well. But, Lincoln does not take decisive action until his hand is forced. Then, the man he appoints to replace him is even more inept. Lincoln is such a great judge of character in every other situation, what is his problem in this situation?

I too was very frustrated with Lincoln picking one buffoon after another. I was SO impatient with McCullen! I don't know how Lincoln could stand it. I suppose that his main flaw is that he was too generous in his belief of others.

What did you make of Lincoln statement that, if he could preserve the Union without freeing a single slave, he would do so? He is given credit for being the great emmancipator, but is he really the champion of the freedom of every person as he is credited with?

How did you react to Lincoln's interview with the black leaders when he tried to convince them to pursuade all blacks to leave the US? His arguements and remarks about the black race is racist even for his day.

I'll lump these two questions together. One of the most interesting parts of this book is Lincoln's evolution in his thinking on slavery. He's not as antislavery as some of his rivals. And yet he comes around. The author argues that his timing is impeccable. This was exemplified by when he decided to go public with the Emancipation Proclamation. That he waited until a Union victory in battle and that he waited for the support of public sentiment. I can't help but to think he would be awesome on Twitter. Haha!

I thought it was similarly interesting to see his evolution in his thoughts on what to do with freed blacks. I think in my eyes, he becomes greater because he showed a willingness to hear the other side -- that he reached out specifically to Douglass and other black leaders. He knew that he was in a white bubble, and to rectify his limited perspective, he reached out to get their perspective. And after hearing their perspective, he changed his mind. I love that! It's more impressive because he didn't start out as "perfect" on his stances.

What do you make of Lincoln's reconstruction plan? He asks for only 10% of the population of a state to swear loyalty to the Union in order to incorporate that state back. And he is offering so much money for the freed slaves that it almost looks as if the North is paying war reperations rather than the defeated South. In the long run, it prooved to be the wise route, but would you have supported such a plan had you lived back then?

Yeah... IDK. I do very much wonder if Reconstruction would have been SO much better had Lincoln lived. I'm not sure if this particular plan would have panned out, but Lincoln was so set on trying to work the South's concerns into the solution rather than being vindictive.

A couple people mentioned Chase and his daughter Kate. I 100% don't think there was anything sexual going on. I think that they had a very close relationship, and moreover, I think that Kate was very capable and competent. As a woman, she had limited opportunity to make her talents shine, and supporting her father was one way. In connection to today's world, I think of Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka. No, it's not quite the same. But I think that Ivanka has come forth to support her father much more than Melania. I think of Ivanka positively as a strong, capable and confident woman, whereas Melania sinks into the background.

I now can't remember what made me pick up this book, but I am so glad that I did. And I'm so glad that you all persuaded me to stick with it.

I hardest part of the book was all the people. I ended up having to write people's names down -- I couldn't keep them all straight in my head. But once I had my "cheat sheet" that I could refer to, I was good.

[Irene]

So glad that you stuck with it and ended up enjoying it so much.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I'm so glad you stuck with this Viola! I was also surprised by how sad I felt when he was assassinated, because sheesh, we all knew it was going to happen! :-)

[Rebecca]

I am glad also. Loved your final thoughts.