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The Toll-Gate
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The Toll-gate Group Read January 2016 Chapters 1-9
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I'm finally caught up to everyone I think. Well, almost. I'm about 75% through.I thought the love declaration was a little bit cheesy. Not that I didn't find it believable because I compare the situation to other high stress situations like war when people make split decisions to get married. It was actually how it was done that seemed a bit over the top to me.
I still love all the characters. Even the bad guys are well written. I can't wait to find out what happens!
Amy wrote: "I love how completely capable Nell and Jack are - kind of like Waldo and Ancilla. So far I'm enjoying this book even if the romance is understated and there's not a ball in sight."
Yes the four of them are definitely able heroes and heroines. I like your comparison. The four of them seem equal to just about anything.
I too am returning to reading GH after 50 years. I have little recollection of the storylines in her books other than I know I really liked them, and can remember the titles.So, picking up The Toll-Gate has reminded me of the wonderful use of language by GH, and how succinctly she could set the scene. Yes, her writing is sparkling! I also enjoy the way she introduces and draws her characters - again without a lot of waffling on, yet you are able to form a clear mental picture.
Particularly liking that she has deviated from the norm by having a hero as the prime character in this book, with a female who is not fluffy and fragile. I just love Ben and how he has latched on to Jack, becoming quite a changed child so far.
Like Amy, the sudden and abrupt proposal of marriage is the one thing so far that has stretched my credulity. Right into the mystery now!
Ella's Gran wrote: "I too am returning to reading GH after 50 years. I have little recollection of the storylines in her books other than I know I really liked them, and can remember the titles...."I agree with all your points, except the proposal of marriage. Two different authors from quite different periods (Mary Stewart and Harper Fox) have written about how they fell in love at first sight, and both got married and lived happily ever after. So although it's never happened to me I do now believe that it can and does happen.
Interesting that you bring up my favorite author, Mary Stewart. Her characters do this. I was fascinated to read (after her death) how MS herself had a whirlwind courtship and marriage during WW 2. She'd lived what she later penned for Nicola Ferris, Lucy Waring, Charity Selborne, Gianetta Brooke, Belinda Martin, and even Christabelle Mansel (who falls for her own cousin in a moment paralleling St. Paul's conversion on the Road to Damascus).
It wasn't so much the whirlwind romance as the abruptness of the proposal. There seemed to be no lead up; nothing to make you, the reader, think Jack was about to propose - just BOOM there it was!
he knew he'd had his leveler and there was no reason to wait:-)
Jackie wrote: "he knew he'd had his leveler and there was no reason to wait:-)"
It's also another way to show that Crazy Jack is quick to act on...pretty much anything!
Lori wrote: "Interesting that you bring up my favorite author, Mary Stewart. Her characters do this. I was fascinated to read (after her death) how MS herself had a whirlwind courtship and marriage during WW 2...."Yes, this is one reason why her real life has stuck with me; I used to find the insta-love in her books rather difficult to believe, but of course she was writing what she knew! She is one of my favourite authors too.
I met my husband Dec 7, had our second date Jan 2, got engaged Feb 2, we married May 1. The French call it "coup de foudre", a lightning strike, love at first sight. We've been together since 1982, 3 kids. It may seem unlikely, but it happens. The first time I saw him across the room at a junior officers meeting, my eyes kept getting drawn to him, as if destiny was calling me. When I actually met him, it was like a bell tolling in the back of my head, part of me was saying "uh-oh" and part of me was fizzing like an newly-opened bottle of champagne. We still hold hands, when I was in the hospital he would come from work when I was in the post-trauma rehab center, and we would just sit and hold hands through the evening. It was the best part of every day. It does happen, but not for everyone. I certainly did not see it coming, he was not the "type" I usually dated...I went for talk, dark & handsome and he was more like a Viking, all blond & blue eyes in his dressblues, and very tall. I did not see it coming, as I said...but I've never looked back. He and I are in this "life-thing" together, we do not like being apart. We still make each other laugh every day. So, Mary Stewart and Georgette Heyer and Helen MacInnes and other authors are telling us about one possible way of falling in love, there are other ways, of course.
I love Mary Stewart, I found Madam, Will You Talk? on my mom's book shelf, it was missing the dust jacket, and did not look like much. Boy, was I wrong, I tore through that book & started looking for more. I'd seen The Moon-spinner's on the Wonderful World of Disney, I think...I liked Peter McInery (sp?)--do not want to Google, will lose too much typing--but Hayley Mills was wrong for the part/too young...but I noted that there was a book, & saw the author's name--that love affair is still going, as well. She takes me away to France or the Greek Isles and suspense and adventure ensue, and love overcomes treachery. I wish Masterpiece Theatre/BBC would do all of them properly.
Kim wrote: "I met my husband Dec 7, had our second date Jan 2, got engaged Feb 2, we married May 1. The French call it "coup de foudre", a lightning strike, love at first sight. We've been together since 1982,..."Kim that is so romantic.
Carol, he is a great guy, a wonderful human being, my best friend. I know we are blessed that we found each other, but we work at it, too. We have date nights, or afternoons, even now while I am in a wheel chair across the table from him. He was so good about helping me at the post-trauma rehab center that it made life for the nurses & aids easier, and they fell for him. Brought him coffee and cake or cookies every night when he was sitting with me. It's been a tough year, but we are really helping each other through it.
Kim wrote: "Carol, he is a great guy, a wonderful human being, my best friend. I know we are blessed that we found each other, but we work at it, too. We have date nights, or afternoons, even now while I am in..."I've been reading this, trying to think of what to write. Real love is certainly more amazing than anything you can read about.
Kim wrote: "I met my husband Dec 7, had our second date Jan 2, got engaged Feb 2, we married May 1. The French call it "coup de foudre", a lightning strike, love at first sight. We've been together since 1982,..."How lovely! You, Mary S and Harper Fox have changed my mind on love at first sight.
I absolutely, positively love your story, Kim! Can you imagine going through this last year alone? Of course, people do, but, oh, my! I'm so glad that you didn't have to.
I saw a lot of people who were, and it broke my heart. It made me even more aware of how much we value our relationship, and how grateful I am that when he walks in the door, my face lights up. We had an on-going book club as I moved through the healing process, various people would come in to see what we were reading everyday, would ask for recommendations. Sometimes they would come in, and my husband, son, and I would all be reading.
Kim, thank you for sharing your story of you and your husband. It's a beautiful story too.I hope that you are getting better and I'm glad that you have the support of your husband to help you and cheer each other up.
I never married, but I never grow tired of people sharing their own real-life romances that are still going strong!
Thanks, Andrea, I appreciate your comments. Don't think marriage is for everyone, and feel fortunate that mine has worked out. It is a lot of work, especially when the kids are young and all need different things from us. The stuff that comes after "and they lived happily ever after" is the interesting stuff, as they show in Act 2 of Into the Woods. They live, sometimes happily, sometimes unhappily, sometimes zombie-walking from lack of sleep, sometimes worrying about from where the next house payment is going to come, often wondering how did we get here, we were just young lovers a minute ago...and then, the kids go out into the world, and if we are lucky, we find each other awake and still loving. Many do not...there are many ways to lead full lives, no one has a corner on the market. I just know mine comes with lots and lots of books! ;-). Now, there's a thing...could very likely not have survived marriage to a non-reader.
Carol ♪ Blinded by the Light ♪ GR Background wrote: "But I will be reading The Toll-Gate by Georgette Heyer this one except without the framing round the picture. Very good on Jack & not bad( in a 60s way) of Nell"For some reason I went through and looked at the various covers on this book. What a bunch of stinkers. These have to be some of the worst covers I've seen on GH books. The one you posted is actually my favorite by far. At least it looks like them. It's kinda in the right time period.
Kim wrote: "...Now, there's a thing...could very likely not have survived marriage to a non-reader. ..."I would find that really difficult, too. There are certain other fundamentals that I suspect could derail a relationship, for example very different political views.
I don't disbelieve their sudden decision to marry. It appears that decisions to marry were much more about being practical then and there. On her side, that practicality appears to be important. (Not to mention she has gotten "old" without having suitable (tall) gentlemen courting her). She's loyal to her household who approve of the marriage.I read a synopsis of a study that showed that the most common reason a man proposes marriage is that he's ready to get married. It's time.
i don't disbelieve it, i just find it uninteresting. There's nothing entertaining about their relationship.
Louise wrote: "i don't disbelieve it, i just find it uninteresting. There's nothing entertaining about their relationship."Not even the humour in their conversations? I enjoy them.
Mod
I think this is a cultural difference between our age and even 100 years ago, let alone 200: if you've read Howard's End you'll remember the confusion caused by the heroine's assumption that because a young man had kissed her that meant they were engaged.
Jack and Nell succumbed to passion on finding themselves alone together and following that, Jack has absolutely got to make his intentions clear - and that means either an apology or a proposal. An apology would have meant that for the relationship to proceed, Nell would have had to be so unladylike as to pursue it herself, so really, a proposal was all that could happen.
Of course, fictionally speaking, the whirlwind romance was necessary so as not to take up too much plot space needed for the thriller part of the story!
I agree that there may be a generational difference here. When I read (especially British) fiction from the first half of the twentieth century, I often notice how quickly marriage bargains are struck, especially when the protagonists are in their mid-twenties or older. Maybe they were more mature at that age, or expected to know their own minds? Or maybe the love-at-first-sight trope was more widely accepted then.
Jenny wrote: "I think this is a cultural difference between our age and even 100 years ago, let alone 200: if you've read Howard's End you'll remember the confusion caused by the heroine's assumption that because a young man had kissed her that meant they were engaged.Jack and Nell succumbed to passion on finding themselves alone together and following that, Jack has absolutely got to make his intentions clear - and that means either an apology or a proposal. An apology would have meant that for the relationship to proceed, Nell would have had to be so unladylike as to pursue it herself, so really, a proposal was all that could happen."
I think this is an excellent explanation of the situation!
Abigail wrote: "I agree that there may be a generational difference here. When I read (especially British) fiction from the first half of the twentieth century, I often notice how quickly marriage bargains are str..."it's not usual in georgette heyer's novels though, where there is usually a more interesting relationship developed between the hero and heroine, they don't just meet and fall in love and that's that. And if they do get married early on, there's usually a lot to be sorted out before they come to an understanding.
Amy wrote: "Jenny wrote: "I think this is a cultural difference between our age and even 100 years ago, let alone 200: if you've read Howard's End you'll remember the confusion caused by the heroine's assumpti..."Agree with both, but I believe it is more than that. I would have last read this book between the ages of around 17 and 25ish during which time I went from being single to married - very happily until I was widowed thirty years ago. On reflecting from this read of it, I don't have any lasting memory of the sudden proposal impacting me back then, which I'm sure it would have. This suggests to me that it was the 'norm' in writing and so accepted without reaction. And that further suggests romance writing of today tends to be more detailed and drawn out, not to mention explicit! Hence the impact had today by writing styles from yester-year.
Ella's Gran wrote: "Amy wrote: "Jenny wrote: "I think this is a cultural difference between our age and even 100 years ago, let alone 200: if you've read Howard's End you'll remember the confusion caused by the heroin..."J'm wondering, too, if fear doesn't enter into our thoughts on quick marriages. Does today's divorce rate make us more cautious (even suspicious) in our reading?
I think Amy has an excellent point, well made.
Kim wrote: "I think Amy has an excellent point, well made."Was it Jenny's point, that included the Howard's End scene, you're referring to (not that Amy doesn't make excellent points, too)?
I think I liked Jenny's point, and saw Amy's agreement, which I also liked. ;-). Thanks.
Mod
Yes, but in this book the romance is very much secondary: the real story is about mystery of the gate-keeper's disappearance. The romance is there partly for the benefit of readers who expect one, and partly as a plot device to explain (a) why Jack is hanging around in the area and (b) why he needs to solve the mystery himself and as discreetly as possible. GH has gone for love at first sight and a swift proposal for the sake of brevity - and of course, as back-up evidence of the lead character's eccentricity.
Jenny wrote: "Louise wrote: "it's not usual in georgette heyer's novels though, where there is usually a more interesting relationship developed between the hero and heroine, ..."Yes, but in this book the roman..."
well, I find it disappointing. I prefer the novels that have more interesting interaction between the heroes and heroines. she usually manages to intergrate romance and mystery better than this.
Kim wrote: "I met my husband Dec 7, had our second date Jan 2, got engaged Feb 2, we married May 1. The French call it "coup de foudre", a lightning strike, love at first sight. We've been together since 1982,..."I met and married my wife in 1980. That wasn't enough time, and I'm scared about what will happen once the glow of our honeymoon wears off.
I think the point about the generational difference is valid. No one would expect a gently bred girl in that period to kiss a man unless they were to be married. Jack knew that, and wanted that outcome, having "had his leveller". In fact, they knew each other better than many couples getting married at that time, given the limits on interaction between unmarried girls and gentlemen, and close chaperonage.
Howard wrote: "I met and married my wife in 1980. That wasn't enough time, and I'm scared about what will happen once the glow of our honeymoon wears off."Love it!
MaryC wrote: "Howard wrote: "I met and married my wife in 1980. That wasn't enough time, and I'm scared about what will happen once the glow of our honeymoon wears off."Love it!"
I love it too! But if Howard likes Georgette Heyer, that might explain his abiiity to maintain the glow.
Howard wrote: "Kim wrote: "I met my husband Dec 7, had our second date Jan 2, got engaged Feb 2, we married May 1. The French call it "coup de foudre", a lightning strike, love at first sight. We've been together..."Oh, dear, Howard, I'm worried for you, too! Hopefully, you have a few more decades of honeymoon before the glow fades.
My husband loves Georgette Heyer novels, also.
So sorry that I am behind. When does chapter 1-9end? I'm going to try and start participating. I was able to get some of the books on a daily deal with Amazon and The Toll-gate was one of them. Thanks.
Anna wrote: "So sorry that I am behind. When does chapter 1-9end? I'm going to try and start participating. I was able to get some of the books on a daily deal with Amazon and The Toll-gate was one of them. Tha..."Do you mean when can you stop commenting? No time limit! I was months behind on some reads before I managed to buy most of GH's romances & historicals on TradeMe (our ebay)People can even dig up old threads & comment on them. Just make sure you use the spoiler tags or put spoilery comments in the spoiler thread. :)
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Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Toll-Gate (other topics)Authors mentioned in this topic
Mary Stewart (other topics)Harper Fox (other topics)
So far I'm enjoying this book even if the romance is understated and there's not a ball in sight.