Solaris by Stanislaw Lem (January 2016 Group Fiction Read)

[Shirley]

The winner of the poll to choose our January 2016 Group Fiction Read was Solaris, by Stanislaw Lem, and you can discuss it here.

[Alannah]

I see it's free on kindle unlimited. This can be my first book.

[Erica]

I'm going to have a look at my library and if it's available will try and join in. Looks like an interesting read

[Shirley]

I've just started this. It's been a while since I read any science fiction, so it will be a change to read this.

[LauraT]

I'll see if I can squeeze it in ... I have also to look for it!

[[deleted user]]

I've started it and I'm really into the depiction of the planet.
The mystery/tension reminds me of Annihilation and The Three Body Problem

[Greg]

I'm looking forward to this! I never saw the US remake but I love the Russian movie by Tarkovsky - so wonderfully strange! I wonder if the book is anything like the movie in approach? I guess I'll find out! :)

[[deleted user]]

(view spoiler)[ Why don't the scientists talk to each other about their visitors? Shouldn't compare the experiences make them more understandable? I am so curious about Snaut and Sartorius's F creations . (hide spoiler)]

[Tweedledum]

Hi I read this a couple of years ago and watched the Tarkovsky film. It's a pretty clever story and I look forward to re-reading it with you all.

[[deleted user]]

I don't know how he manages it, but Lem makes discussion about different theories and academic disputes very compelling. I think it's part due to the mystery that is the Solaris Ocean, I keep reading in hopes to find the correct answer to the unsolved questions... even though I think the point is that it is impossible to find answers because it's impossible to understand the ocean itself.

@Mods, please, let me know if I should put this under spoiler.

[Alannah]

Giorgia wrote: "I don't know how he manages it, but Lem makes discussion about different theories and academic disputes very compelling. I think it's part due to the mystery that is the Solaris Ocean, I keep readi..."

I agree, really thought I would be put off by that. To be honest, that is why I was glad I didn't have to pay for it. But I am really enjoying it so far.

[[deleted user]]

Alannah wrote: "Giorgia wrote: "I don't know how he manages it, but Lem makes discussion about different theories and academic disputes very compelling. I think it's part due to the mystery that is the Solaris Oce..."

I'm glad you're enjoying it! I think I might go with a 5 stars rating here.

The Ocean is the best alien creature I've ever read. It's so... alien! So different from humanity... I kind of picture it like a lava lamp sort of bubbling foamy magma.
I'll have to double check on - I'm reading the Italian translation and have no idea how these words were rendered in English - simmetriadi, asimmetriadi, mimoidi . I actually have no idea of what is what.

[Genia]

I've already read Solaris (about 15 times, really...) but I'll be happy to contribute to the discussion.

[Robin P]

I found the main story very engaging (and creepy) but I did skim over the scientific theory parts. I agree that it's great the way we can't even really comprehend what the alien is and how it works.

[Pink]

I haven't ever consider reading this, as I don't think it's my sort of book.....but sometimes these make the best surprises, so I'll see if I can find a copy!

[[deleted user]]

**SPOILER** on the whole book

(view spoiler)[ Finished. I've enjoyed this immensely.
As Robin said, Kelvin's story is really captivating. I thought the ending was so sad. He knows it's highly unlikely that Harey will ever come back to him, he knows that wasn't even the true Harey, still he decides to stay and wait. I don't even think it's romantic, it's just... sad.

There are a few parts that left me a little baffled.
1- Why had all the robots been locked away in "the basement" of the station?
2- What about Snaut's and Sartorious's visitors? Did they get rid of them with the annihilator as well? Why was Snaut's visitor capable of staying away from him longer than Harey could? Was it because the real Harey had killed herself when she had thought Kelvin was leaving her, resulting in Kelvin's guilt about leaving her alone again (which transfered to the visitor, being it a materialization of the person's subconscious)?
3- What happened to Gilbarian's recording?
(hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Fun fact ... well, not really fun for Lem himself...
So, Lem wasn't the biggest fan of american sci-fi writers back then, except for Philip K.Dick. Dick, who apparently suffered of paranoid delusions, denounced Lem to the FBI in 1974, accusing him of being the head of a comunist conspiracy. This resulted in Lem being expelled from the american association of sci fi writers, of which he was an honorary member.

Thank you afterward for dishing out good gossip :)
Poor Lem though.

[[deleted user]]

I'm only about halfway through the book, and I have a mixed reaction. I think it's an interesting story so far, it just hasn't really grabbed me yet. It's rather disjointed. Some of the science stuff is tedious, and I usually have a high tolerance for this when reading science fiction. I guess I'll just read on and see what happens.

[Shirley]

Terri wrote: "I'm only about halfway through the book, and I have a mixed reaction. I think it's an interesting story so far, it just hasn't really grabbed me yet. It's rather disjointed. Some of the science stu..."

I'm about half way too. I'm finding it interesting, but the the initial sense of creepiness is not as strong as it was, and I'm just wondering where the story is headed now. I

[LauraT]

Shirley wrote: "Terri wrote: "I'm only about halfway through the book, and I have a mixed reaction. I think it's an interesting story so far, it just hasn't really grabbed me yet. It's rather disjointed. Some of t..."

Same for me. I'm rather liking the stile of writing, but - and it's not the first time - I can't say I like Sci-Fi. It looks ... dated!!!
It seems to me to be too ... "Freudian" this book; I want to see where it is going to end, before expressing a definite opinion

[Greg]

Giorgia wrote: "Fun fact ... well, not really fun for Lem himself...
So, Lem wasn't the biggest fan of american sci-fi writers back then, except for Philip K.Dick. Dick, who apparently suffered of paranoid delusi..."

How fascinating Giorgia and of course kind of sad too. I didn't know this about Lem or Dick.

[LauraT]

I'm suffering a bit: I find the places where he describes the "production" of the ocean - in Italian Morfoidi, Simmetriadi etch - and those where he lists the "different" scientifc theories on Solaris really boring.
And I'm finding it, of course, so "dated". To think that they would use an Magneto-electroencephalography (EEG-MEG) to send message to the ocean through X rays sounds so hilarius now, in time of nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR)!

[[deleted user]]

I wasn't bothered much by the dated technology. The book was written 55 years ago, but if you think about it the book came out 8 years before the moon landing. It's not the most ridiculous astronautical fiction I've ever read ( that prestigious honor goes to Ralph 124C 41+: A Romance of the Year 2660).

[LauraT]

Giorgia wrote: "I wasn't bothered much by the dated technology. The book was written 55 years ago, but if you think about it the book came out 8 years before the moon landing. It's not the most ridiculous astronau..."

No, I don't mean I was bothered! I do understand that it couldn't be different. It sounds strange nethertheless, like when reading about Nemo and his Nautilus, written before submarines were even invented!

[[deleted user]]

I see your point, Laura. It's interesting to note how technology has advanced in unexpected ways. I'm finding a lot of the scientific explanations too much.

[[deleted user]]

LauraT wrote: "Giorgia wrote: "I wasn't bothered much by the dated technology. The book was written 55 years ago, but if you think about it the book came out 8 years before the moon landing. It's not the most rid..."

Ah, I see what you meant!
I've never read anything by Jules Verne but I get it.

I on the other hand find it very distracting when the technology invented by sci fi writers is too absurd (as was in the book I had mentioned). There's a balance between story telling and technological wonder that one has to be careful about, I think. I get that making stuff up is fun, but when there are ages and pages of ridiculous technological gadgets... it's too much, it doesn't make for a compelling read.

[[deleted user]]

ps- I've just realized that what I didn't enjoy in Ralph 124C 41+: A Romance of the Year 2660 (the constant nagging of the author about amazing made up technologies) could be precisely what some of you might have felt for Lem going on and on about "this scientist thought the Ocean was this", "that other scientist instead thought that" and made up theories and academic discussions.

[Greg]

Wow, I was just blown away by the first chapter! The translation I'm reading is exquisite - quite impressive .. the language is so deliciously evocative! The images are sharp and unique, not trite. I like also how the scientific personality of the protagonist comes out in the narration, the "parabolic" slopes, etc. On a sentence level, it reads much like a work of literature, definitely well above the usual sci-fi translation.

I recently read another sci-fi book in translation (The Three-Body Problem) and the language in that one was quite uninspired in my opinion, the word choice fairly trite, dry almost - when an unusual or vivid image finally came along, it was usually weighed down and drowned under a heap of surrounding dead language.

By contrast, the prose in this translation of Solaris is nicely pared down and beautifully alive; the images have force. The translator deserves a hearty handshake in my opinion! I wonder what it's like in the original Polish though? Does the original Polish also have this very fine quality of writing? I suspect it does, but I have no way of knowing.

Enough about the excellent translation ..

Lem seems to hone in on the right details. I love for instance how the narrator (view spoiler)[notices the "first real sound of wind" almost with longing after so much time in space. That feels just right to me (hide spoiler)].

So far I'm drawn by the story too. How wonderfully eerie (view spoiler)[the disheveled station is when he arrives (hide spoiler)]. And Snout's first appearance plays nicely near the edge - just a fraction further in the direction of oddity and the story might become unmoored, but at least for now, the first conversation with Snout is delightfully odd. It made me laugh a few times imagining the narrator's frustration with Snout's cryptic pronouncements. It's the kind of thing in normal life where one would go home afterwards and talk to their partner about the frustratingly bizarre conversation and laugh over it (but only in retrospect of course). I love also all the suggestions and half expressed mysteries.

Of course, I'm guessing from several people's comments that the tautness of mystery and suspense is going to slacken and that the book will perhaps bog down. But I really hope it doesn't for me because I just love it so far. I'm near the end of chapter 2 at the moment.

[Leslie]

I am averting my eyes from the comments so far - I just got a copy of this from the library. I am looking forward to this; it seems like such a different book from our typical BoTM :)

[Erica]

I'm going to be completely honest here. My first thoughts after finishing:

Ugh I struggled through this book! Finally finished it in the last 5 minutes. I found the style of writing ok but the content itself left me completely bored and uninterested. The characters were dull and 2-dimensional, story was lacklustre and the interspersed scientific narrative went straight over my head. I'm so surprised this book gets such high ratings! I gave it a measly 2*

[LauraT]

Leslie wrote: "I am averting my eyes from the comments so far - I just got a copy of this from the library. I am looking forward to this; it seems like such a different book from our typical BoTM :)"

Definitly!

[Leslie]

Off topic a bit, but I wanted to remind people that our book for next month has been chosen (copied from the Group Announcements thread):

Our Group Fiction Read for February 2016 will be Nora Webster by Colm Tóibín, which is our first moderators' choice for 2016. The March choice will be decided by a poll later this month.

[[deleted user]]

I've finished the book, and I ended up liking it more than I originally thought. (view spoiler)[The idea that man needs to look inside himself for exploration is a theme that resonates with me. I liked the end of the book which questions what/who "God" might really be. (hide spoiler)]

[Shirley]

I've had to leave it for a few days while I finish another book for review, but will be back on it this weekend!

[Greg]

Hmm, this book changes quite a bit. I think I'm understanding people's reactions better.

I thought the first chapter was brilliant, an eerie, perfect setup for the mystery as well as beautifully written.

Then mid-second chapter comes the scientific survey that some of you have talked about. It didn't bother me, but it certainly wasn't as gripping as the first chapter. Intriguing but not gripping.

Now, in chapter 5, it has taken another turn with (view spoiler)[the appearance of the narrator's dead lover and their backstory (hide spoiler)]. Curious to see where this goes.

I'm also very curious about the (view spoiler)[fertility goddess / woman that he keeps seeing. Why this in his visions? (hide spoiler)]

Still enjoying the book though, even if it isn't going quite where I was expecting it to go.

[LauraT]

One thing that annoyed me was (view spoiler)[the fact that we don't know the "visitors" of the other member of the crew, a part from that Fertility goddess Greg was talking about, probably the one of the dead captain. Probably it wouldn't have added anything to the story, still I sort of missed something (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Excellent point, Laura. I very much agree!

[Carolyn]

LauraT wrote: "One tink that annoyed me was [spoilers removed]"

I agree too!

[Carolyn]

Erica wrote: "I'm going to be completely honest here. My first thoughts after finishing:

Ugh I struggled through this book! Finally finished it in the last 5 minutes. I found the style of writing ok but the con..."

I completely agree. It seemed to me like the author was much more invested in writing pages and pages of philosophy, and then stuck characters in because he had to. They were added to support all the philosophical stuff instead of the other way around.

[Erica]

That's such a good way to describe it. Almost felt like two novels intermingled - the philosophical one which I hated and the character one where very little happens.

[Greg]

Carolyn wrote: "It seemed to me like the author was much more invested in writing pages and pages of philosophy, and then stuck characters in because he had to. They were added to support all the philosophical stuff instead of the other way around. ..."

Carolyn and Erica, the book has felt heavily philosophical after the first chapter to me too - I don't dislike it, but I definitely know what you mean. I'm reserving final judgement until I see where the book goes (I'm a little over half done).

Around chapter 7, I did find it moving on a character level though when (view spoiler)[Hari breaks down after realizing that Kelvin doesn't want her there, when he comforts her. It's so sad that she doesn't even realize she's a construction. Odd how the most moving character is a construct, not really human. It reminds of sci-fi books dealing with artificial intelligence & robots, those same sorts of moral dilemmas (hide spoiler)].

[Greg]

Giorgia wrote: "The Ocean is the best alien creature I've ever read. It's so... alien! So different from humanity... I kind of picture it like a lava lamp sort of bubbling foamy magma.
I'll have to double check on - I'm reading the Italian translation and have no idea how these words were rendered in English - simmetriadi, asimmetriadi, mimoidi . I actually have no idea of what is what. ..."

I just read this part, and I did find it fairly fascinating. When I get home tonight, I'll look up the English translations of those fake classification words in the book.

Another interesting scientific twist in chapter 7ish was when Kelvin discovers (view spoiler)[that the structures above the atomic level are only "masks," just mimicry and nothing to do with the real structures of the ocean's substance (hide spoiler)]. I liked that part.

[LauraT]

Greg wrote: "Around chapter 7, I did find it moving on a character level though when [Hari breaks down after realizing that Kelvin doesn't want her there"

Read on, read on!

[Greg]

Giorgia wrote: "I'm reading the Italian translation and have no idea how these words were rendered in English - simmetriadi, asimmetriadi, mimoidi . ."

Giorgia, you probably looked it up already, but the English translation lists them as symmetriads, asymmetriads, and mimoids. The other formations are translated as extensors and rapidos.

[Greg]

LauraT wrote: "Greg wrote: "Around chapter 7, I did find it moving on a character level though when [Hari breaks down after realizing that Kelvin doesn't want her there"

Read on, read on!"

I am finding the human story between "Hari" and the narrator extremely moving now. I'm in Chapter 11.

I still don't like the book quite as much as the odd, poetic masterpiece by Tarkovsky, but I'm definitely fully gripped by the book now, especially since (view spoiler)[Hari developed self consciousness (hide spoiler)].

[Shirley]

I'm back on with reading this today, after a short break from it.

[Greg]

Shirley wrote: "I'm back on with reading this today, after a short break from it."

Great Shirley! How far along are you?

[[deleted user]]

LauraT wrote: "One thing that annoyed me was [spoilers removed]"

@Laura at #36 I'm totally with you here. That's my main complaint with this book! Too much is kept a mystery. I want to know what's going on!

Greg wrote: "Hmm, this book changes quite a bit. I think I'm understanding people's reactions better.

I thought the first chapter was brilliant, an eerie, perfect setup for the mystery as well as beautifully ..."

@Greg at #35
(view spoiler)[ I thought she was Gilbarian's visitor... but the visitors disappear when people fall asleep, so it wouldn't make sense that it had stayed when Gilbarian died. I really couldn't tell for sure though. (hide spoiler)]

Terri wrote: "I've finished the book, and I ended up liking it more than I originally thought. [spoilers removed]"

@Terri at #33. I really liked that as well.

[[deleted user]]

Greg wrote: "Giorgia wrote: "I'm reading the Italian translation and have no idea how these words were rendered in English - simmetriadi, asimmetriadi, mimoidi . ."

Giorgia, you probably looked it up already, ..."

I actually hadn't found a translation for all of the terms above. Thank you!!!

[LauraT]

Giorgia wrote: "Greg wrote: "Giorgia wrote: "I'm reading the Italian translation and have no idea how these words were rendered in English - simmetriadi, asimmetriadi, mimoidi . ."

Giorgia, you probably looked it..."

The same problem I had!!!!