James Baldwin - BR Maya & Sofia Dec 2015

[Maya]

Yes, but it seems it was particularly difficult for him to find balance between his mission and the stability/relationship he so wanted. And the periods of busy social life which he needed to bring life to his books followed by his flee to someplace else to find peace. That's why, I think, all the travels between New York and Paris.

[Sofia]

He is either at full go or at full stop.

[Maya]

Finished chapter 17 - it continues the theme of the previous chapter.
There was a moment - I think in 16 - where he was arguing with a director in the theater and his Turkish friend called it Harlem vs Harvard. Just to think where he is now (1959) as an author and where he started from ... not that he recognizes his own success at this point.

[Sofia]

Yes i think he has never taken a breather to see.

Finished chap 16

Liked this, how he is able to see so kindly, detached from anger, just cause and effect.

"The sons of the masters were roaming the world, looking for arms to hold them. And the arms that might have held them—could not forgive."

Excerpt From: "James Baldwin: A Biography" by David Leeming. Scribd.

This material may be protected by copyright.

Read this book on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/book/257941579


Will start chap 17 later as we are going to watch The Martian.

[Maya]

And because his mission has no result in real life yet even though his views are now respected.

The Martian - so I take it you won't be reading the book? I probably won't watch the movie. Kind of tired of Matt Daemon and his roles in sci-fi movies.

[Sofia]

The guys couldnt wait for me any longer to read it. At the moment they are preparing the Rich Parnell manoeuvre.

JB I do fear that his mission, his message, still needs to be received at least by some. I don't know enough about this.

[Sofia]

Read chap 17 and 18th


Baldwin was aware of a new self-confidence in the black students and was reminded of the changes that had taken place in the South and of how long it had taken him to cleanse himself of the “filth I’d been taught about myself … before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had the right to be there.”

Excerpt From: "James Baldwin: A Biography" by David Leeming. Scribd.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Read this book on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/book/257941579


I get the idea that the Bohemian lifestyle and being an artist are totally linked together for Baldwin. But the lifestyle takes much out of him, he needs breaks. What do you think?

Chap 19 later.

[Maya]

Morning :)
How was the movie?

The bohemian lifestyle is the lifestyle of the artists, yes, and he wrote many times to his brother David how exhausting it was for him but how essential to his writing. Talking to all these other artists - no matter how successful - helped him to put many things in perspective and also understand things about himself by seeing there are other people who feel like him.

[Sofia]

Like us talking books together here on GR :) its like family being part of a like minded group.

I liked the film, i missed his humour in the second half after he started communicating with Earth, things got more angsty.

Good morning !!!!

[Maya]

I read 18 too. 19 and 20 in the evening.

Slightly off topic:
I've been watching again some JB videos on youtube. I found this video where Jake Gyllenhaal and Colm Toíbín discuss Another Country and it's very interesting, and then around 0.33 Jake starts reading a scene where Vivaldo and Ida have sex and ... I wish he narrated audio books. His voice is perfect - there's a ... softness in it that I find very attractive.

here's the link if you are interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaSSa...

[Maya]

I watched the whole video now and it's a very interesting discussion. Made me feel a little bit proud that we figured out many things about the book the same way they are talking about it. Watch it if you have time.

[Sofia]

Just returned - went to the beach. Oh I'd like to watch this :)

[Maya]

the beach, OH!
It's -7C here and it's snowing.

Watch this one as well, it's only 3 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0L5f...

[Maya]

reading chapter 19:


“One can only face in others what one can face in oneself. On
this confrontation depends the measure of our wisdom and compassion.”

---

You don’t know my name because you can’t see me, these essays say. You see only the mask you have made me wear.

[Sofia]

Sofia wrote: "Just returned - went to the beach. Oh I'd like to watch this :)"

You always find the most interesting of stuff :D

I've just watched this and I'm totally going to blame you if I'm late on other stuff now :D Seriously though I loved watching it, I loved the discussion, I loved Jake's voice, Coim not so much. And yes it was great that people had the same feelings/questions we did and some of them have read it more than once.

I love the bit about being truth, recognising truth because it's familiar, it makes characters human, being unafraid to look yourself in the mirror and seeing what there is.

and yes I'm glad that we are taking the risk of journeying with him.

[Sofia]

Maya wrote: "the beach, OH!
It's -7C here and it's snowing.

Watch this one as well, it's only 3 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0L5f..."

we didn't swim, we just had a snack and hot tea and looked :D And I also got a red nose from the sun.

These 3 minutes are so him from the book. And what he says applies always, when you say good or bad things about others, what you say reflects you more than the other.

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "Maya wrote: "the beach, OH!
It's -7C here and it's snowing.

Watch this one as well, it's only 3 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0L5f..."

I know, right? And he's so convincing. It's just been described in chapter 19 how he couldn't hide from people who followed him everywhere looking for his company, wanting to hear him speak. I can understand why.

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "Sofia wrote: "Just returned - went to the beach. Oh I'd like to watch this :)"

You always find the most interesting of stuff :D

I've just watched this and I'm totally going to blame you if I'm la..."

Sorry?:)
I had to share it with you. I remember how much we were thinking and talking about Ida's anger, Rufus's violence, and the ambiguity of most of the characters' sexuality. It was good to see other people see these things the same way.

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "we didn't swim, we just had a snack and hot tea and looked :D And I also got a red nose from the sun."

so unfair! :P
I went downstairs to clean some ice off of my car (to save some time in the morning) and I got a red nose from the freezing cold too :D

ETA: the view from my balcony right now

[Sofia]

That street looks cold Maya.

[Maya]

Chapter 19 – we are in the early 60s now. Still no place where he can settle permanently.

He would from now on resign himself to becoming a “transatlantic commuter … a stranger everywhere.”

Enjoyed reading about his visit to Turkey. The people, the atmosphere …

JB in Turkey:



Very sad about Beauford.

[Maya]

read chapter 20 too - it's very short and then there are several pages with photos.

Another Country - (view spoiler)[ok, one thing I hadn't understood before was that Vivaldo sleeping with Eric was a metaphor for his losing his innocence so he can finally *see* Ida.
That was interesting. (hide spoiler)]

And I'm stopping here for tonight.

[Sofia]

Good Morning Maya -

Back to work today

I read Chap 19-20-21

Another Country - so if I understand correctly for the moment. Vivaldo going with Erik helps him loose his 'innocence' enough so that he is able to listen to Ida when she tells him what she has had to do. Kind of opens him to the knowing.

These last chapters were all about knowing and the not knowing. The not knowing depicted as innocence but not in a good way as the 'innocence' allows things to continue in the way they are and we hide behind the veil of innocence. I think he noticed this also in Africa because he was closing his eyes to it and when he went he ended up seeing it a lot through white American eyes. I think as he says that it takes courage and love to open your eyes to see.

Baldwin - no fixed abode, no fixed partner - tough this

Can read more this evening.

[Maya]

Good morning dear, i'm back to work too.

Still at the end of chapter 20, will probably read some on my break and then more tonight.

Yes, i think when he talks about innocence he means the conscious choice to not get a deeper understanding of things; the non-comitment to life.

[Sofia]

Issue: 17th May 1963

[Maya]

he looks tired

[Sofia]

yes I seen him happier - probably they chose this as it ties in with The Negro's Push, couldn't have a happy photo there.

[Maya]

I was just looking at my To-Read list and ... what are we going to do next weekend 9-10 Jan? Should we finish the biography first before Going to Meet the Man?

[Sofia]

by the 9th we should be towards the end of the biography. I'm going to leave the 9th open. So we can decide what to do then. As probably we would want to finish. And I do feel the need for 'his words' after having such a big those from someone else's point of view.

[Maya]

Ok, we have 14 chapters to go (21 to 34 incl) so if we read three chapters per day we'll finish on friday and can start the stort stories on Saturday.
We can do this! :)

[Maya]

i like this photo - he's talking and everyone's looking at him

[Sofia]

Maya wrote: "Ok, we have 14 chapters to go (21 to 34 incl) so if we read three chapters per day we'll finish on friday and can start the stort stories on Saturday.
We can do this! :)"

yea we are on a roll

[Sofia]

Maya wrote: "i like this photo - he's talking and everyone's looking at him

"


I'd love to have been in one of these 'parties' :D

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "Maya wrote: "Ok, we have 14 chapters to go (21 to 34 incl) so if we read three chapters per day we'll finish on friday and can start the stort stories on Saturday.
We can do this! :)"

yea we are o..."

hopefully :)
we are still on the 50% mark though.

[Maya]

chapter 21 - yes about seeing Africa through the eyes of the white Americans.

So everything he publishes now (1962-63) is read by everyone everywhere.
In the end of the chapter when someone refers to his voice as having "appallling authority" i understand it as if they are scared of his words but need to hear them nevertheless.

Also: "At the end of his essay Baldwin points, as he had elsewhere, to the power of love as our only hope, love “not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth,” - Ouch!

[Maya]

chapter 22 - JFK and JB on the events in 1963:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtCK4...

[Maya]

chapter 22 - oh wow, this chapter was so interesting, so many things going on in the period it covered

(view spoiler)[all the speeches, the meeting with JFK, JFK's declaration on civil rights, Baldwin followed by the FBI , the murders ...

Now in 1963 he is a really influential person. (hide spoiler)]

By “change,” Baldwin meant inner change: the giving up on the part of whites of the deep-seated, guilty, and arrogant belief that black people want to be white.

[Sofia]

They wanted something from the Kennedys that went beyond civil rights laws. They wanted the president, for instance, to escort a black child into a Deep South school. Kennedy rejected this as a “meaningless moral gesture.” To Baldwin and the others it would have represented a moral commitment. With the president there, the point would be made, as one of the participants put it, that anyone who “spits on that child will be spitting on the na-tion.”


Excerpt From: "James Baldwin: A Biography" by David Leeming. Scribd.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Read this book on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/book/257941579

This would have been powerful

[Sofia]

Maya wrote: "chapter 21 - yes about seeing Africa through the eyes of the white Americans.

So everything he publishes now (1962-63) is read by everyone everywhere.
In the end of the chapter when someone refer..."

His love is not the fluffy, cutey one but the true, brass balls tough love, yay

[Sofia]

Things came to a head in this chapter. I've watched films about Martin and Malcolm and the Kennedy's, Baldwin's view comes to me very strongly maybe because of his philosophy and because his words are not being filtered through film to appease audiences.

I keep understanding what The Fire next means, not a treat but a consequence.

[Maya]

I actually made a note to check it later because it was mentioned as a reference to the Bible which meaning I don't know:

If we do not now dare everything, the fulfillment of that prophecy, re-created from the Bible in song by a slave, is upon us: God gave Noah the rainbow sign, No more water, the fire next time!

[Maya]

chapter 23 - he got very intense with the play here. I imagine it was a nightmare to be around him during these days.

Inevitably, he took stock of his life and realized that fame and success and his public activities had done little to change the world, and his personal life continued to be a disaster.

Again it was Beauford to remind him of the most important thing: his writing because this was where he showed his love best.

[Sofia]

I watched the Kennedy piece, i wished that the sound was better.

I like hearing Baldwin's voice, here it is much clearer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU71k... talking during the Vietnam war and how what he was saying before applies across the board.

In chap 22 there is a bit when Robert Kennedy mentions a possible black president in 40 years time. Well it took 50 years and still racism is a plague to be dealt with at least according to the news I hear.

[Sofia]

Maya wrote: "I actually made a note to check it later because it was mentioned as a reference to the Bible which meaning I don't know:

If we do not now dare everything, the fulfillment of that prophecy, re-cre..."

Water is referring to the flood and how Noah had to build an Ark to save the chosen few plus the animals. Next time it would not be water it would be fire.

[Sofia]

Going to start chap 23

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "In chap 22 there is a bit when Robert Kennedy mentions a possible black president in 40 years time. Well it took 50 years and still racism is a plague to be dealt with at least according to the news I hear. "

I think so too. Because it was the same white liberals that Baldwin insists are *innocent* that promoted and elected this president.

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "Going to start chap 23"

ok, I'm off to bed. chat more tomorrow. xx

[Maya]

Sofia wrote: "Maya wrote: "I actually made a note to check it later because it was mentioned as a reference to the Bible which meaning I don't know:

If we do not now dare everything, the fulfillment of that pro..."

but this has the meaning of a threat, or?

[Maya]

I like listening to him talk too. Most of his interviews and speeches that took place after 1960 are on youtube so I've been watching parallel to our reading.

[Sofia]

Maya wrote: "Sofia wrote: "Maya wrote: "I actually made a note to check it later because it was mentioned as a reference to the Bible which meaning I don't know:

If we do not now dare everything, the fulfillme..."

I'd take it more as a consequence. It is not rocket science to predict that what humans do not achieve by peaceful methods they'll achieve through violence. Baldwin says somewhere that the worse a society can do is create people who have nothing to loose because they would have no limits.

Would i be threating to say that the Middle East problem will become a European problem if it is not dealt with. I'm not threatening I'm saying what I see coming or what is already coming.