Just a reminder about the purpose of this group

[Joyce, Group Creator]

Thank you, Maria. Your books are an excellent example of what I mean. For my books, since I strive for historical accuracy, it would be historically inaccurate not to acknowledge that there were both good and bad religious people during the Middle Ages. One of my heroes is raised to be a priest but chooses another path. I don't preach the Catholic religion, it was merely a way for my hero to obtain a level of education that would otherwise not have been accessible to a man of his class in that time period. This is not proselytizing, it is being true to the historical time period.

That being said, I do not doubt that some true "Inspirational" titles have snuck in, some innocently by readers who have not read our guidelines closely, some more deliberately. These should, indeed, be removed from the group shelf and if anyone brings them to my attention, I will do so.

[Angela]

Christine wrote: "Ok,so what I get is that the person who started this group 'Joyce' has no objection to religious proselytizing.... which means all the usual god-talk about how everything will be just hunky-dory as..."

I'll second that "Wow"... >.> Lots of loaded, accusatory language there.

From where I'm sitting, the problem seems to come down to a definition of the word 'proselytism'...which, according to Webster, goes like this:

Definition of PROSELYTIZE

intransitive verb

1: to induce someone to convert to one's faith

2: to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause

transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause.
---

I'm sorry, but the mere mention of a deity does not meet the qualifications for actively attempting/succeeding in converting someone. If the passing mention does offend you so, then perhaps you should consider starting a group that would better cater to your personal sensitivities.

[C.]

Ok,maybe I used the wrong word.
What I and fellow nonbelievers cannot stand,is books where the characters cannot make an independent decision without asking their god's permission first,like an elementary school child raising their hand to be excused to go to the restroom!

Plus continuous prayers and scriptures. Believe me,when I was a devout Christian I would get upset over book reviews that called a book too "Preachy" because there was no such thing for me! However,I no longer feel that way.

Now I just want to be able to read a nice clean book without graphic sex and profanity,and I also want it to be free of all that god-talk,meaning... continous conversations with God,asking Him His will or plan[which is almost never disclosed by Him, anyway!] and the constant telling other characters that God has a plan- or God will show them- or ask God-,or trust God- He will make everything perfect,which is especially ridiculous considering how often one of the characters has lost their faith because God was NOT there for them when they WERE striving to live a life pleasing to His will,so why on earth would/should they trust Him again?

Even as a Christian I never thought authors gave any plausible reason for their backsliders to reconcile with God,so authors would be smarter if they avoided ever writing a character who has lost their faith,because I have never yet in my years of reading Christian fiction read a single story that was believable about why/how they would ever trust God again,when there were such excellent reasons to walk away!

I would LOVE to start my own group that would not allow any such books,since I am familiar with most of the authors of such books,and their book titles, I believe I would be able to keep them off my bookshelves,so how do I go about that?

[Maria]

Click the "Groups" tab at the top of your page. A lot of groups will show up. Near the top where you can enter something are the words: "Create your own group." Click that and follow the instructions.

THe "Create your own group" is in small letters -- look for it carefully. And good luck!

[Sheri]

I AM a Christian, but most of the time when I read, I read for entertainment and, unless I am in just the right mood, I don't want books that are trying to "teach" me something. Mind you, I understand there is certainly a valid market for those books, and one of my best friends writes for the Christian/inspirational market. What I look for in books (usually) are books that are not overtly religious, but that will not violate my own sense of morality/ethics. I suspect that is more in line with what this group is for.

[C.]

Thank you Maria, I found it,and I will be checking into that more next week after my granddaughter goes back home.

I have to figure out how to get a nice icon for my group,since I am not in the least tech savy,LOL!

I will be calling mine Clean,nonreligious,Romance.

[Sophie]

I will search for it soon :)

[C.]

Soph wrote: "I will search for it soon :)"

Oh that's great to know that someone is already interested. :]

[C.]

Ok, I got it set up this morning before my pre-teen granddaugter got up,but for some reason only the 4 out of 7 folders that I created and posted in are showing up for me,LOL!

I will try to figure it out while she is at lunch with her other grandma today.

http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1...

[Sophie]

I have join and all the groups seem to show up for me :)

[C.]

Soph wrote: "I have join and all the groups seem to show up for me :)"

That's great,and thank you for letting me know. :]

[C.]

I must apologize to Joyce,the creator of this group.I was looking at the wrong booklist,a "Listopia" list for Clean Romance, instead of the bookshelves here.

I was at Goodreads Clean Romances and I clicked on bookshelves and bookmarked that page and I thought it was the correct one.

How ebarrassing! She PMd me the correct link and it does has different books,though the two bottom ones on the first page are Love Inspired titles,but I haven't looked at it any further yet.I will look at the offerings when I have more time,but I am sorry for my mistake.

[Joyce, Group Creator]

It is so easy to make a mistake, Christine, when learning to navigate around a new website. I'm glad we got this cleared up. :-) I have removed the Love Inspired titles you mentioned, plus others by the same author. Do let me know if you find anymore. I don't generally read Inspirational romances myself, so it's easy for others to slip them by me onto our bookshelf. If you, or anyone, finds any more such titles, please PM me and I will remove them, too.

Thanks, everyone!

[[deleted user]]

hullo nice to find a group that likes clean romance. I do not read or write fantasy books... I like romances that are true to life but without offensive content.

Beryl

[Kathleen]

Hi, Beryl. I write historical romance (mid-18th century). May I ask what you consider offensive content? It seems to vary from reader to reader. There's no explicit sex in mine, seldom more than a kiss or admiring glance. But I do use language and situations that would be true to life in the period I write about. Someone who read one of mine was bothered by the language, which I thought fairly mild: "h---", "d---", and "b-----d", as even when I was in middle school (dinosaurs were still a problem at the time), I heard classmates use worse language.

[[deleted user]]

Hullo kathleen I am sure you agree a lot of what is put out there today is pretty gross. I do not enjoy a too sugary sweet unrealistic story so using those words is acceptable where I am concerned. What I consider 'offensive is explicit sexual content and also foul language. I gauge what I write by asking myself a question "Will I be embarrassed if a young girl I am particularly fond of reads my book? ... or if an older woman whom I admire, who is not narrow minded but who has good morals, reads my book?

[Kathleen]

Beryl wrote: "Hullo kathleen I am sure you agree a lot of what is put out there today is pretty gross. I do not enjoy a too sugary sweet unrealistic story so using those words is acceptable where I am concerned...."

I really don't like explicit sex in historical novels (it seems to be endemic in them, which is not the case in mainstream novels). My objections are not actually on the ground of immorality but because a) rampant sex with decent unmarried women is untrue to the period, b) sex scenes are apparently often put in because they seem to be expected and/or to sell books, and c) everyone's idea of what is erotic is different, so the author's idea may not appeal or may even be...icky..., and in some cases, sex scenes are simply not well written because the author's heart isn't in it.

As to language, I try to make it true to the period. Some situations call for something stronger than "Zounds!" I don't write Jane Austen-style stories or the "sweet" kind of romance which always seems to be sunny skies and bunnies and very few real problems. When a term is called for that I would not use in company, I can find a 17th - 18th century canting term that means the same but will be so obscure as to pass over the reader's head like a summer cloud.

[Jimin'sRamenNoodles]

I really get what all of you are saying. It's been especially disappointing for me, because even as I do like Christian, Clean Romances, sometimes I would just like to sit down and read just a nice romance without having to worry about a whole dramatic sideline about her faith and some journey she goes on. Most of the time trying to put our own ideas of what God is or isn't in books is probably inaccurate anyways!
We really need more books out there that are JUST about being clean!
I am also not a huge historical romance reader which pretty much cuts off a lot of choices for me. For the exact type of books you might be talking about, I would suggest Bias by Lucy Gold or P.S. I Like You by Kasie West.
West is a longterm clean author that I love that only has a few content issues (mostly language, but nothing heavy!) while Gold is just debuting and is surprisingly 100% clean.

[Cate]

So glad I found this group because I feel the same way. I'm Christian but I was so tired of the formulaic, preachy inspirational romances that I stopped reading them. I want to read for fun. If I want inspiration, I will read the Bible. :)
But on the other hand, it's so hard to find clean romance in books. I even went as far to start writing and publishing my own. Reviewers are torn on this issue--for some it's not enough romance! Others appreciate that it's clean. You can't make everyone happy. But it's great that I could pick any book from your bookshelf and know it's clean (and non-preachy haha)!

[Alfred]

Hi ladies. I'm writing clean romance.

[Kathleen]

Hi, Alfred. Yes, follow your bliss and write. The world needs more clean romances.

As you liked Outlander, I'm guessing you do not object to some of the bits that are not squeaky clean?

My own novels contain no explicit sex ("No bodices are ripped") but do contain some language (not as bad as you'd hear on a middle-school playground) and some fairly mild violence. Also murder, arson, treason, and general skulduggery.