The Name of the Wind
discussion
is denna really a prostitute
message 1:
by
Benjamin
(last edited Apr 17, 2014 09:23AM)
(new)
-
rated it 2 stars
Apr 17, 2014 08:29AM
after reading the wise mans fear I remember denna having a conversation with a run away girl about being a hooker and got the impression that denna was a hooker did anyone else get this impression
reply
|
flag
I dont think shes a prostitute per-say I think she's more of a gold digger, Opportunist. A damaged woman not above doing what she needs to do to be where she wants to be to feel "safe and secure".
So kinda like a Kardashian but less slutty and soul suckingly useless garbage that are destroying society slowly like a viral crotch rot and more like a very confused and scared little girl who knows what her assets are.
Paul wrote: "So kinda like a Kardashian but less slutty and soul suckingly useless garbage that are destroying society slowly like a viral crotch rot and more like a very confused and scared little girl who kno..."That was.. I'm in agreement. I agree.
Think of her as a secretive call girl whose specialty is "innocent".She will find a rich guy, play all innocent and try to get him to look after her.... and our hero is so in the friendzone that he puts himself in debt to get her out.
Paul wrote: "I dont think shes a prostitute per-say I think she's more of a gold digger, Opportunist. A damaged woman not above doing what she needs to do to be where she wants to be to feel "safe and secure"."I agree with the second half, but not the "gold digger" aspect. I do not think she values wealth in any form. She is quick to give it away and as comfortable around a campfire as an estate room. What she values is her personal freedom. As a woman in that society without family money and the benefit of access to a university she does what is required to be fed, clothed and independent but without excess. I am sure there is a sexual component to the commerce of companionship she purveys, but she seems to control and pick and choose how intimate the relationships become. She doesn't sell her body as a commodity; she sells her companionship, which more often than not seems to not involve sex.
All of that said, that entirely relies on her being just a girl on the road, and not a chandrian or amyr or fae or something we haven't heard of whose motivations are ineffable.
Yeah I may have misspoke the gold digger but it was the words that came to mind. She's definitely trying to be independent using what she has and what she knows to try and stay alive and make a comfortable life. She seems very lost and I think knowing her complete and truthful back story would be interesting.
yeah I agree with all that but if I remember correctly she was telling the girl how to be better at what she does or something along those lines I might be wrong I read it months ago
rick. wrote: "Paul wrote: "I dont think shes a prostitute per-say I think she's more of a gold digger, Opportunist. A damaged woman not above doing what she needs to do to be where she wants to be to feel "safe and secure..."rick. wrote: "Paul wrote: "I dont think shes a prostitute per-say I think she's more of a gold digger, Opportunist. A damaged woman not above doing what she needs to do to be where she wants to be to feel "safe and secure".
I agree with Rick, and I'm looking forward to the 3rd book to find out what Rothfuss reveals about Denna as he pulls all the threads together. I admire her independence and courage. Also, It seems to be in Rothfuss' nature or style to be a bit reticent at times about sex--and even when it comes up, to treat it in an understated manner (which is fine with me in this era of no-details-omitted). Plus, I think he wants to keep Denna a mystery until the very end--particularly as she is one of the themes that draw us in.
She's a professional girlfriend.
Gary wrote: "She's a professional girlfriend."That Works
I think Denna is a freelance opportunist who's cunning and sharp for survival in adverse situations. The era painted by Rothfuss clearly objectifies womanhood especially in Imre and Tarbean where brothels have been pointed out rather carelessly. Still, Denna's character has been painted with amazingly mystical shades and even though I cannot pinpoint towards any tangible proof, but my overall understanding and gut-feeling strongly lead me to opine that Denna is no closer to being a prostitute than Kvothe is to being a Voldemort.
she prefers the term "escort".
whether you want to call her a girl friend for hire or a escort or whatever I really think denna is a slut come on guys lets call a spade a spade shes always with a different dude and se seems to be getting paid to be with them
“Call a jack a jack. Call a spade a spade. But always call a whore a lady. Their lives are hard enough, and it never hurts to be polite.”― Patrick Rothfuss, The Name of the Wind
That said, I still would not classify Denna as a "lady".
"lol" rick we don't have to be polite to fictional characters...
I'd say she's a courtesan. She has no wealth or family to support her and the universe implies their are few jobs available to woman. So she has no choice but to sell her companionship to have the freedom she wants.Also she says she doesn't sleep with most of the men who buy her things, as opposed to Kvothe who is working his way through most of the women in town.
don't remember kvothe getting any from any "human" if he did it was that one chick that thought babys came from magic beans lol but just her and that fae woman
After he comes back from fairy land he sleeps around a lot. His friends even comment on how he has gotten reputation for being a ladies man who never stays with the same woman for more than a week or two.
weird I don't remember that but i'll take your word lol I still give him a pass he's a sixteen year old boy he can't help himself but no pass for denna she's an evil temptress put on patrick rothfus's earth to to annoy me with never ending chapters of her mystic
She's not that bad, her and Kvothe's relationship is one of the most annyone parts of the book for me though.And I'm pretty sure that Denna is going to die in book 3 so you have that to look forward to.
Is it annoying because it isn't clear? Is that "annoying" or is it just part of Rothfuss' deliberate way of revealing the plot and keeping us intrigued or curious about what will happen? If any of us don't have the patience for that, then I would say stick with authors that provide immediate gratification--and there are plenty of them around. For me, the Denna relationship is a very important part of Kvothe's life, and as such, will be revealed eventually. It's one of the fascinating aspects of the story that keeps me reading and looking for vol 3.
The part I find annoying is the will they won't they plot that has been dragged out for 2 books so far.They both love each other but Kvothe is an idiot who has missed or ruined every opportunity he's had to make a move, and Denna is damaged and seems to have resigned herself to the belief Kvothe will never really love her.
I hear you, but I have heard stories from many long-married couples who joke about the confusion, missed signals, etc., that took place at the beginning of their relationship. Maybe Kvothe is just a little worse at this than most--but he's afraid of being taken for a potential "sponsor"--and Denna isn't really sure if she can depend on him and/or if he really cares for her.
I read her as a prostitute. I don't think that changes her character, i.e., I think whorephobia oughtn't make readers think less of her. Since there don't seem to be many other options for girls on their own on the road in that universe, I'd say she's a working girl.
She also says that "if you are a horse" "you are going to get ridden" in the conversation about what the young country girl should do. She seems to have a lot of worldly inside knowledge in that conversation.
ok ill admit it I really don't like denna and if kvothe does he should just pay her a couple gold crowns and get his sexual frustration out he has all pent about her that all she really wants
Frenchie wrote: "Denna is a mystery. But she is not that bad. Gosh, a girl has to survive. If she was a guy, no one would ask if he is a gigolo and moreover, none of you guys would bat an eyelid...".... Why am i getting a STRONG feminist vibe from your comment?
Why am I getting the feeling that you two think that being a feminist is a bad thing?
Frenchie wrote: "I am the 'knight' in shining armour for the orphan, the poor, the downtrodden..."Doesn't Kvothe fall under your orphan and downtrodden category? I mean he was (view spoiler) after all.
Mothwing wrote: "Why am I getting the feeling that you two think that being a feminist is a bad thing?"I don't, it's extremist feminism that takes my cake.
I'm all for equality but when your movement for equal rights and equal living, turns into a grab for power and a "calling out" session for anyone who disagrees with you... I have a problem.
The "I will just say rape because I have buyer's remorse" doesn't ingratiate them towards me either.
... Kinda like Denna... got a "man hating" vibe from her somewhere in one of the books, can't recall where.
I don't think Denna hates men. If anything she can be very soft hearted at times. Heck she gave away some expensive earrings to her friend in book two who got himself deep into debt.She'd guarded around men because of a lifetime of bad experiences and whatever trauma happened that drove her away from home. I'm inclined to believe she's a runaway rather then an orphan.
well without speculating I would say denna loves men and if anything she seems really loose around them I see no evidence of her be guarded around men or untrusting quit the opposite actually shes bang almost all of kvothe friends and enemies or atleast "dated" them and the only trauma she seems to have ever suffered is at the hands of her so called "patron" aka pimp who has a habit of pimp slapping her around from time to time so in my opinion denna is just another no good disease spreading prostitute
Well, Benjamin, I would respectfully disagree. I feel that Alexander's and Frenchie's take on Denna are much more in line with her true character. You seem to have completely ignored several comments about the limited options available to women in Kvothe's world. Further, it seems to me that life there is much more complex and multi-layered than your take on it.
Her mysterious patron beats her up and she doesn't want to get tied down to a man. Is this what she calls freedom? Its ok to beat her up but she gets offended when someone gives her presents such as roses or jewelry?
Frenchie.... I am still getting this "man hating" feminist vibe from you...
Kevin, Why don't you let it go? Frenchie is calling it like it is--abuse. It takes a lot to work through this. Also, it doesn't help to use the "man-hating" feminist label--that's just another way that men try to (further) put down women.
Kevin wrote: "Frenchie.... I am still getting this "man hating" feminist vibe from you..."Having a problem with "extreme feminism" is fine in itself (I'm not particularily fond of it myself), but you're being completely unreasonable.
How is it man-hating to consider the context of the story and use what we know about Denna in order to understand her personality and behavior?
Sure, she's annoying and sometimes acts like a brat, but she's clearly a marked girl with an uncomfortable past. It's rather basic psychology that people who have been the subject of abuse often develop serious trust issues that can alter their personality for the worse.
You don't like her, fine, but stop trying to label people who are trying to understand her by using a little empathy and common sense.
Philip wrote: "that's just another way that men try to (further) put down women..."If it sound sexist(aka "man hating") to me, I will state my views.
Your comment also sounds sexist.
It goes both ways.
Paul Martin wrote: "You don't like her, fine, but stop trying to label people who are trying to understand her by using a little empathy and common sense. ..."This has nothing to do with me "liking" or "disliking" her. She put Kvothe in the friendzone, gives it up easily to other guys but just lets Kvothe simmer.
I am not giving her no special snowflake treatment because of her past. She is a user plain and simple.
(view spoiler)
She put Kvothe in the friendzone, gives it up easily to other guys but just lets Kvothe simmer.All of which makes PERFECT SENSE if what most people here think about her is true.
I am not giving her no special snowflake treatment because of her past.
So, a person's past has no relevance in relation to how they act in the present? What kind of one-dimensional world do you live in? Do you have any idea how extremely damaging abuse can be for a person's personality?
She is a user plain and simple.
She might be, of course. But from what we've seen of her this far, there's probably more to it.
Didn't Kvothe put Dena in the friendzone as well? He's never made a move on her in the entire time they've known each other.
Alexander wrote: "Didn't Kvothe put Dena in the friendzone as well? He's never made a move on her in the entire time they've known each other."He was a kissless virgin then, remember?
If feminist meant that I am going to take the side of a woman, who I believe, has reasons to act the way she does, then so be it.No, that's called being an empathetic human being:)
@ Frenchie I was just saying that I was getting "man hating feminist" vibes from you when I read your comments. Wasn't implying that you are a man hating feminist just saying that is how your post read and I got it again when you made another post... Maybe I am just reading into things too much. I do not hate Denna, if she wants to do what she is currently do, more power to her. Just saying call an apple an apple.
Also Denna's behavior is what they call a cycle. Someone did her wrong in her past, she gets good guy Kvothe, dumps a bunch of her luggage(those old steamer trunks) on Kvothe, they eventually break up.... Kvothe has some luggage of his own.... starts to be a douche to some nice girl he meets, and it goes on.
@Paul Empathy can only go so far. I would help people without profiting from it but the things Denna did to Kvothe and how he is running back to her like a love sick puppy. Ugh.
I'm half way through ''A Wise Man's Fear'' I admit to slight Misogyny, but weren't women able to get jobs back then in many capacities. The choice of the Denna angle is part of the plot and with that choice comes revelation of her character. Acquisition of comfort and liberty from labor using ephemeral beauty. I'd say bad role model and one required to cover the sexual tension part of the plot. Kind of like someone you would pay to have a decent conversation with of the opposite sex. A still type of prostitution.
She is kind of like a courtesan.
Hannah wrote: "She is kind of like a courtesan." HA! HA! HA! HA! to everyone who said this i give you:
cour·te·san
ˈkôrdəzən,ˈkôrdəzan/
noun
a prostitute, especially one with wealthy or upper-class clients.
Lets call her what you want, but she is a prostitute, and an annoying one at that. If that was Pat's objective, then he did good, but normally writers dont want their main characters "annoying", so I hope he has her killed or married (with the hope that she stops her debauchery).
Much depends on how reliable a narrator Kvothe really is. We have a hint of this when we step out of the story and Bast talks about her ears. when it comes to Denna, it's safe to say that Kvothe is wearing rose colored glasses. Too much truth ruins the story.
Roman wrote: "Hannah wrote: "She is kind of like a courtesan." HA! HA! HA! HA! to everyone who said this i give you:
cour·te·san
ˈkôrdəzən,ˈkôrdəzan/
noun
a prostitute, especially one with wealthy or upper-c..."
I don't think we should put too much credence into the Google Merriam-Webster definition results. It's not a particularly in-depth or intelligent dictionary/encyclopedia.
Plus, someone saying "kind of like" indicates that the person is drawing a comparison.
However, in this case, a more careful look at what a "courtesan" is (a word that has definitions that range from prostitute to courtier) does give us an indication of what her "job" is. Calling her a prostitute is probably not factually correct in the standard use of that term from what we know about her from Kvothe.
Kevin wrote: "She put Kvothe in the friendzone, gives it up easily to other guys but just lets Kvothe simmer.""Friendzone"? Do you really think that that exists? Why would anyone ever owe anyone sex?
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
